Heretic here I am .. I want to question Gratitude

[Why Syzygy]

Gratitude has brought great comfort at times.

But when I think of it, I often then think of this story...
My dad left me a little old Nissan, which I thought was was bitchen.
It has some problems, but always managed to get fixed, quite by fate at times.

After his death, I went back to our hometown and had my heart set on a certain job opportunity.
I had been given much, for which I was grateful.

I loved that car. A few days after I interviewed for the job at my chosen location, which I though cinched the deal, I just sent up a prayer of gratitude for my little car which took me over and back. I lived in the Metroplex (Dallas . which is no small feat). I gave up an offering of prayer. And said, how happy and proud I am to have this transportation. So I can go explore the avenues that will lead on my path to the future. I admit there was a dark omen on it vis a vis thee peron who gave it to me, although it should have been pure. Some people are not. But the very next week, the car was totaled by a poor teenager who didn't know the gas from the brake.

I have to admit. I was just giving thanks for this wonderful transportation, and now it is gone. Of course I've found other since.

But I wonder ... how could gratitude backfire? I have never understood this. I so loved the little tool about, but it was gone in an instant.

Gratitude is one of "The Secrets". I was feeling all happy and blessed... there must be something more there.

What do you think?

[MorningGlow]

1. Great question, VSM

Here's my shot at an answer: You didn't need the great little car anymore. Its dharma was to take you where you needed to go (to get started on the next phase of your life), it was miraculously fixed several times to ensure it was there to do that task, and once its job was done, it was time to enter another dimension (or another reality or whatever you wish to call it), which we view as "death". Works the same for people.

An amazing story from about 10 years ago in my neck of the woods: There was a car wreck and a teenage girl was seriously hurt. It was on a fairly remote stretch of road, but one young man happened across the wreck. He may have been a volunteer firefighter--I forget. In any case, he helped the girl and called an ambulance, and she lived. A few days later, he was on his way to visit her in the hospital, and he got into a car accident and died. My dad found this story on a back page of the newspaper and showed it to me because he just couldn't understand why that would happen--why would a nice, goodhearted young man who should be rewarded for his bravery end up dying like that? But I saw it as--he was here to help that young woman. Once he did, his lifepath this time around was finished, and there was no need to stick around any longer.

Same with your car. No dark omens, no blame for the teenager (although I don't think you do blame that person, right?), and no backfiring of gratitude. You recognized that the little car did its great job, which it did, and the little car said "Great. Now I can go."

I like to think the little car came back in its next life as a Lamborghini. In a part of the world with a lot of hills and curves and a great driver to own it. :)

[I Have A Dream]

3. You and I are thinking the same way, MG. I answered below and then...

saw your wonderful response. :)

[Why Syzygy]

5. MG . that's an interesting insight

Very sad story about the firefighter.

I do think that car had a certain jinx because my dad left it to me, but my mother bragged that she had "given" it to me. So, all in all, I got to get rid of her taking credit for my wheels. The next one was all by my own efforts.

It is amazing what that little car did for me in the four months I had it. I met the mechanic mentioned in post below when he saw me buying oil at the gas station and offered to put it in for me. I was dressed for a job interview. He is still a sweetheart of a friend, and his lady too. He and I weren't the romantic match, you know.

So I guess I had much more to be grateful for the car than I realized. It led me down paths I may have never gone.

Never thought of a car having dharma.

I'm glad your dad asked "why". I do that a lot. Yesterday someone told me that "why" is a bugaboo that would drive her nuts. But I still ask "why". Here's the answer I got, since I cannot stop asking "why" no matter how hard I try .. I've always had this uncanny knack for solving problems. Not only "why", but "how"? There is no way to solve a problem without those two questions, is there? Isn't that where innovation comes from? "why" does this do that, and "what if" ...

I got into the habit of writing gratitude lists before this car came into my life.
I was grateful for the large floor to ceiling windows in my old apartment. Even though the fireplace was too dangerous to use, I was grateful to have that feature there. It gave me comfort.

I still believe in gratitude. If you've seen "The Secret", you know that is a big feature of the film. I was telling someone about it last night.

It is most difficult to be grateful for the things we think suck.

For the young firefighter, I bet he was grateful he could save a young woman's life. That is an awesome story.

Are you familiar with the site gogratitude.com? I get those messages, but really find them mundane. But for some, they are meaningful. I might be missing something there.

Gratitude is just another word for thanks, or looking for the good things, isn't it?

No, I don't blame the teenager. He was quite shaken up. Again with the web. I bet he never mistakes his gas for the brake again, and that could prove to save his life and those of others in another event.

I just want to talk more about gratitude.
I can be grateful that I met someone who, excuse this tired expression, tore my heart out.
It taught me many things. I don't like the way that thing came down at all. But the lessons are there! How could we have learned those without the adversity?

We don't know the extent of the family of the firefighter. Or what they learned. It seems from this view that it is most unfair. ... I think I remember you telling this story before. ...

I don't know. I'm in a muddle about this right now. Thanks for talking it over.

[MorningGlow]

8. Happy to analyze

I have a talent for dragging something around and not quitting till I beat some sense out of it. I think it comes from all those years as an English major! :rofl:

Anyway, yes, gratitude is a toughie. Gotta love those moments when you admit you're grateful for a lesson--through clenched teeth! I always have a hard time understanding lessons right away. I'm definitely one of those who, years later, looks up during an average day, recalls a lesson from ages past, and goes "Ohhhhh...duh!"

Also interesting that the teenager confused the gas and the brake. When I was in my 20s I was riding with a 16-year-old who was going too fast down a winding road with a very precarious dropoff into a deep ravine on my side of the car. We swerved on gravel, smashed into a mailbox and shattered the windshield, but didn't hit anything else. Neither one of us was hurt, either. Miraculous. I found out later that she had confused the gas and the brake. All I remember was when the shock started to wear off, and I started shaking and crying, I had the wherewithal to ask our mutual friends to keep her out of the room so she didn't see me and feel guilty. Still, though, I'm sure she was a more careful driver after that.

Interesting you think you've heard the firefighter story before. I'm pretty sure I never wrote about it here (especially since I've only been posting a relatively short time)--perhaps I wrote about it on another forum that you also visit. It's an amazing story and one I do tend to retell in discussions about dharma.

Another story I love to tell, regarding asking "why" (and "how" and any other questions): When I was in college, I had a great low number in the dorm room lottery, and so got a prime room in the best dorm on campus. But I didn't have a roommate. I was sick of roomies by then and was longing for a single, but my number wasn't that good. I figured I'd take my chances, but a girl I was sort of friends with asked me if she could be my roommate. I figured the devil you know vs. the devil you don't and all that, so I said yes.

Yecch. We didn't get along AT ALL. She was very introverted and conservative and I...well...wasn't! So we kind of just coexisted for the year. It wasn't awful but it wasn't heaven either. Anyway, early in the year, when we were trying to connect, I started a conversation about...something--who knows what--and it led to my commenting abou wondering about life's great mysteries--death or the afterlife or aliens or some such. I don't remember the topic, but I do remember her response--very Freudian-slippish--"I choose not to think about things like that," she stammered. "I choose...not to think."

And there you have the difference between those who are awake and questing (us) and those who aren't.

Still, the lesson I'm working on now is not judging (present administration excepted--they deserve it--they've earned it), so I won't judge those folks. I remember reading somewhere that the most spiritually backward people you meet this lifetime may just be choosing to experience what it's like, and are actually very spiritually advanced. Now THAT is a lesson! :hi:

[Why Syzygy]

10. Okay . well you just

whacked my mind. I love talking to women. Who knows where we will end up.

And there you have the answer .. you said it. I have a friend from Dallas, years ago, and she was so much fun, Aries. She was always going, what are we gonna do today? I thought I would sit on my lazy butt, but she got things going. Goddess bless Aries. Well. We got back in touch tonight and she isn't actually legit divorced from the last disaster, but tells me, she will be remarried within the year. I don't doubt it. To each.

We may have run across each other in another forum, but that would have been years ago.
The firefighter story may have made rounds. I know I've heard it.

My college roommate story .. (I do love girl talk) .. I got the most boring roommate ever.
Her idea of fun was to hook up with the other chicks and go to the A and W for rootbeer floats.
Rootbeer floats are cool, ya know. But the conversation was d.r.a.b. I kinda wanted to know where the dudes were, and it was obvious none of them had a clue. .. telling on myself ..

So the roommate across the hall was very dynamic. As it turned out, I was the dude magnet. no brag. just interest. So I came home to the dorm one day and none of my posters were on the walls. I looked, and nothing was there. The dynamo across the hall had taken it upon herself to move all my stuff into her room! Never discussed. I knew I lived with ms. drab . but for someone to come in and take your stuff and move it into their room and say . oh now we are roomies! What the F?
Next semester a woman I knew from high school decided to attend the same college. I think she got another room but spent so much time in mine that the hijacker took another flight.

Funny those memories. I'll still ask why. You with me?

[MorningGlow]

19. LOL 's great, innit?

Yeah, you betcha--I'm with you--ALWAYS ask why, even when folks tell you not to--ESPECIALLY when folks tell you not to! How else are we going to learn? :hi:

[Why Syzygy]

16. I want to know more about dharma

Is that life lessons? The only place I've seen that word used before is in reading some Deepak Chopra.

Please expand on "dharma".

[MorningGlow]

18. Dharma

Aside from its affiliation with "Lost"...? :)

There are a lot of definitions, but I was using it as a reference to your life's duty--the goal of your life. Like if we have a particular thing to take care of, person to help, or type of person to be. Like...hm...if you follow your dharma, you will untie some knots in your karma. It's revealed through your gut instinct--following your nose down the path you're meant to take in a particular lifetime.

Of course, I may be entirely off base and using the wrong word! It's been known to happen! :rofl:

Any contributions to the definition of dharma exceedingly welcome!

[I Have A Dream]

2. How easy was it for you to get a new vehicle after that, vsm?

Did you get the job or another one very soon afterwards? How much difficulty/hardship did you have because you lost the little car? I ask because I was told by a channelled being wih whom I work that gratitude can also be the last thing required before something better can come along, if that makes sense. (It's almost like closure.) If you got the job and could then very easily get a new vehicle, maybe your car was just holding out long enough for that to occur. Maybe it was really a miracle that it ran as long as it did. if you didn't get the job and getting a new vehicle was very difficult, I don't know what to say.

When the channelled being was discussing this, he was really talking about having gratitude for the things that we don't like rather than what you describe, so it's not exactly the same. (The gratitude that he was describing was about seeing what the bad situation taught us or brought into our lives that was good for us.) Therefore, maybe it's not the same at all.

Good question! :shrug:

[Why Syzygy]

4. I did get the job

and had it for three years. Learned a lot there.
It was not easy to get a new car, but eventually got one I really liked. I was very GRATEFUL for the car dealer who was able to pull that off. But with car payments! The Nissan was paid in full.

One payoff was, I hired an attorney right away to handle the headaches of dealing with insurance companies. And with the extra cash was able to take a trip back to my former state of residence and get my stuff from storage. And made some bucks for the attorney.

It's a tangled web, I guess.

I also got to spend more time with my mechanic friend, who remains a close friend to this day. I thought we had seen the last of each other the FIRST time he handled a wreck in that car.
I had it four months and was hit two times. I wondered, am I wearing a sign that says "hit me"?
After the first one, it was a little skewed off the frame. The second one broke the front axle and there was just no recovery.

I would have liked to have done without the ensuing car payments, but I guess in balance, it did serve a purpose. <sigh>

[Why Syzygy]

6. Now there's a thought ..

"gratitude can also be the last thing required before something better can come along"

When we look at the metaphysics, this makes sense. Because as long as we are fighting something, it will stay there. I have forgotten this. But have experienced it over and over.
Thanks to you and your channeled being. Gratitude is a way of letting go? Wow, that's a lesson.
I'm starting a new gratitude list today! :D

edit: yes, it is the same. Good lesson. Wow! Much more than I expected.
Have you written more about this being and what it says?

[I Have A Dream]

9. Here's a quote from the channelled being in reference to this issue.

"Thankfulness shows the Universe that there's not resistance anymore. Non-resistance means that you're finished with that particular lesson."

He's given entire workshops on the subject of gratitude and how important it is.

The channelled being is named Samuel, and here's his website: (He has indicated to us that he is masculine energy at least in reference to his dealings with the people who work with him.)

http://www.discoversamuel.com

I have been working with him on and off for the last 15 or so years.

[Why Syzygy]

12. I am so glad I asked.

The universe has been delivering big time lately. Even though sometimes it looks like s**T.

I will pursue the website. Thank you so much.

[suziedemocrat]

13. Gratitude "the last thing required before something better can come along"

Amazing - but I believe it. If you want to know the truth I get a little sick of all of the "gratitude" that's in vogue now. Although, when I get retrospective on my own life - I always end up thinking "...well this led to that...and that led to this other thing...so if this hadn't happened I wouldn't have been ready for this other thing..." It's just that when some people do it (like Oprah sometimes) it seems so forced and phony. But I can see how it would be necessary before you could move on. Even gratitude for bad things.

You have really good posts! Who is this being you channel? You should start a new thread about that.

edit to add: Whoops - posted before I read the entire thread. I'm going to that website now. Thanks!

[I Have A Dream]

14. I don't personally channel this being, suzie. Another person channels...

him, and I'm part of a group of people who work with him to bring about change in the world. (I've been doing it on and off for about 15 years.)

Please see this post for more details:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=245&topic_id=28198&mesg_id=28235

[rumpel]

7. I was thinking along the same lines

so nothing to add,

but it is really interesting about the channeled being talking about gratitude towards "something we don't like". It is along the same thoughts of being grateful of the lessons we have learned, retaining the lessons and letting go of that experience, which allows us to move forward...

It probably means to apply gratitude to both: good and bad experiences.

[Why Syzygy]

11. So Grateful for this thread

because I can find a whole boatload of stuff I'm grateful for.
And so it is. Let it pass.

[Why Syzygy]

17. This thread will sink...

as all do. But I am so (ahem) grateful for all the thoughts posted.
I fight an addiction demon. Have for years. Sometimes I get the upper hand. Sometimes the loser.

I have started giving thanks and gratitude for this monster who has a life of its own.
I have so much wanted to banish it. But I must be grateful! You on this thread have taught me that!

As a gift, I deal with spirits and entities. A curse and a blessing. yin/yang .. I don't talk about it alot because . well people think I'm nutty enough.


People on the outside just wonder. Why can't you be stronger? I am strong. I would not be here if not.

I think I should get on my knees and say THANK YOU, Universe. That's a toughie. But I will try anything.

I was always afraid of my beauty. I thought, if I think much of it, I will become disfigured.
Well I have in a way. I see it, but others don't seem to notice. I'm going to be grateful for the scars too!

wow .. if I'm grateful for this forum does that mean it will go away? NO WAY. What a building block we are. What a daily encouragement I find here. What beautiful souls dwell. I give thanks.
And don't you dare think of leaving. :D okay?

[cassiepriam]

15. We do not know what karmic issues were involved

for your growth or the teen's. But it is a blessing that no one was hurt.
And perhaps there were some lessons that you learned from all of it.
I hope the teen learned something.