Sexual fantasies and the Law of Attraction

[I Have A Dream]

This has always been something about which I wondered. I've never been someone who believes that it is wrong to have sexual fantasies. However, I've always wondered whether those fantasies increase the likelihood of making something come true in "real" life. For example, if a woman fantasizes about being raped, I certainly don't feel that it means that she wants to be raped. However, does that fantasy make it more likely that she'll be raped because of the Law of Attraction?

Additionally, if either party in a committed relationship fantasizes about having sex with another person, I don't think that it is sinful or wrong. However, I've always wondered whether it makes it more likely that something similar to this fantasy might actually occur in "real" life. Because of this, I've always felt that it is best to imagine other people (not oneself) in fantasy situations when one is in a committed relationship where one wants to maintain monogamy.

I wondered about these things decades before I ever heard of the Law of Attraction.

What are your thoughts? (I don't think that I even need to say it in this forum, but please keep it clean so that this doesn't get locked. :))

[LaurenG]

1. There is something that I've read about called

"sex magic", it is purported to be a very powerful way to attract those things that one would like to occur in one's life.

I think that if one were fantasizing about another during orgasm it may create thought forms that would be harder to clear from the aura than at other times when fantasizing or daydreaming.

There is more to this than what I've stated but I'll refrain from saying more publicly. :)

[I Have A Dream]

2. I posted something similar to this a while back, I think.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=245&topic_id=31200&mesg_id=31200

Thanks, OB!

:hi:

[LaurenG]

3. Yes that is on the same line

I don't think toning was mentioned in the books that I read though. Sorry I forgot about that thread. :hi:

[I Have A Dream]

4. I think the toning was really something else that he was...

discussing unrelated to the sacred sex part. (If I recall correctly.)

[cassiepriam]

5. Sexual fantasies are quite common if you look at the Masters and Johnson

research. And aggressive sexual fantasies are also common.
Women tend to need the fantasies for arousal purposes
since they have a much more slower arousal time line compared to men.

In sex therapy women are actually directed to fantasize as part of he treatment.

[I Have A Dream]

6. The question wasn't about whether they're appropriate or not.

I'm talking about the Law of Attraction. Would putting oneself into the fantasies make them more likely to have these things manifest in "real" life?

Would focusing on two different people instead of placing oneself in the fantasy avoid this situation?

[cassiepriam]

7. Sorry, I didn't make my point clear! :(

I tend to put out the facts and let people come to their own conclusions but I know it may come across as too indirect!

I was saying essentially that I did not buy the basic premise of your question due to the fact that aggressive sexual fantasies are so common in women. If the premise of attraction were true then almost all women would be victims of sexual assault.

Also on a spiritual and theoretical level it doesn't make sense. I think that we are meant to be happy. I think we are meant to be sexual beings and fulfilled. And for women that seems to be strongly linked to sexual fantasies. So I do not see how we could have negative spiritual consequences for that.

Also I think putting someone else in the fantasy might diminish the whole purpose of the fantasy. And then if the whole attraction theory is correct wouldn't that be just putting someone else at risk?

As usual I am willing to be convinced, but so far not clicking for me on a logical, intuitive or spiritual plane.

Also, Geesh, poor women.
Most of the foods they love and crave are now on the bad list.
Sex is limited due to STDs etc.
And now their fantasies are bad :(
Geesh, what is left?

[I Have A Dream]

8. I'm not saying that anything is bad. I'm also not saying just women.

If one believes in the Law of Attraction, how does this issue (sexual fantasies) affect reality? That's my question.

If you're saying that you think that it doesn't (which I think is what you're saying), then that's my answer from you.

Thanks, cassie.

[cassiepriam]

10. Dream, if the idea is that sexual fantasies may come true,

then the implication is they may be dangerous. Which seems bad to me!

From a spiritual perspective INTENT is everything. The exact same behavior can produce good or bad karma or energy depending upon the intent.

So if someone is having sexual fantasies with the underlying motive of harming others (like in the case of pedophiles, or sexual abusers, etc) then I think yes we are talking about bad karma and the laws of attraction kicking in. Big Time. Or perhaps if a person used sexual fantasies as a way to avoid real relationships, etc.

But if the thoughts are not intended for harm, nor have ill intent then that is not bad karma.

And this whole issue about thoughts affecting reality, is at the core of it, about karma. And karma most certainly is NOT made up of rigid rules, or willy nilly, if you do A, B happens. No exceptions etc. It is not a black or white, 0,1 kind of a system.

Karma is about what you reap you sow, but it has a spiritual base, a higher purpose. And it is reasonable, just and fair. And intent as I say is everything.

I think we have to avoid karmic black and white thinking. And imagining all kinds of bad karmic consequences over harmless thoughts or behaviors.

[I Have A Dream]

12. Thanks for your explanation, cassie.

I think that I always sort of felt as though fantasies actually happen "somewhere", so it's one step closer to manifesting. I didn't see it as a karmic thing.

Also, I really am just wondering. However, it does feel like truth to me and always has. Sorry, maybe this is one of those "knowing" things that I sometimes get that is not true. It wouldn't surprise me. :)

[cassiepriam]

21. I do agree that some fantasies become reality somewhere.

Where that is I don't know. (My imagination is so strong that I swear the events have to be happening somewhere in the universe, I have made them real on some plane.)

And some other fantasies will become a reality in the here and now. All events begin as an idea in someone's head first.

And also in some cases it might be the other way round. Maybe what we think of as fantasies are really events past, present or future that are happening on another plane. Maybe we are tapping into these "memories."

I just do not believe that automatically ALL fantasies become reality all the time. In the here and now, on the earth place at least.

I do agree however that it is quite possible that every thought that every human has ever had, or will have is recorded somewhere in the Akashic records.

In a sense then everything is karmic. But I do not believe that every fleeting isolated thought will have severe karmic repercussions.

[SeattleGirl]

22. There is something about that in The Secret; about all thoughts

not becoming reality the moment we think them, and that given the number of thoughts we have per day, our lives would be completely crazy if thoughts brought instantaneous reality. By that, I mean (as does The Secret), that while thoughts may become "reality" on some level, they don't become necessarily physical reality. Because of the delay between thoughts and physical reality, if we realize we may be wanting the wrong thing, or thinking about something in a way that would manifest exactly what we DON'T want, that gap in time allows us to rethink those thoughts into ones that are more in tune with our true desires.

[I Have A Dream]

23. Oh, my! I certainly wasn't saying that every fantasy becomes...

reality! What I was wondering is if it increased the likelihood (even by a very small amount) that that particular thing would manifest. :)

[u4ic]

78. That's how I see it too, cassie

edit: though some people may not have the intent to hurt, but have a blind spot regarding their words/deeds. ie they do end up hurting, a repeated pattern...while I don't think it produces bad karma, I think events may happen to that person as it needs to be brought into conscious awareness.

[Why Syzygy]

9. I think the LOA

might make a difference if all one did all day was fantasize. If it is done only at appropriate times, it seems to me it would not materialize, unless that is a true deep desire and actions follow.

[I Have A Dream]

13. Thanks, votes. Let me ask you this...

What if someone wanted to have a sexual relationship with a person. Would their sexual fantasies about the person (with the deep desire that it happen in real life) make it more likely to occur, in your opinion. Of course, everyone has free will, and the other person would be able to make it not happen if they really didn't want it to happen, but does the person's fantasies increase the chance that it would happen based upon what you believe?

Thanks for your input!

[Why Syzygy]

15. That's really two questions.

Sex and 'relationship' do not always go together. Just a minor point.

I agree with Cassie regarding intent. I believe that one of my relationships (friendship) was healed because I set the Intention (at an Intenders Circle) that it be healed for the highest good of all concerned and without expectations of the form it would take. Just healed. I would like to have 'more' from the relationship. But at the same time I can discern that I am focused on spiritual growth, as is my friend, and 'more' might mess up stuff. You know how that goes?

You may have seen me mention Dr. David Hawkins, whom I've been listening to recently. He has a method of kineseology that meassures things as 'true' or 'not true'. There is no false. Just an absence of true (Truth). He believes in 'situational ethics'. IOW, Truth is defined in context. What is Truth in one situation might not be Truth in another. Of course he also says that in order to arrive at Truth, one has to be integris (integrity/integrated), seeking only the Truth with no vested interest in the answer.

I'm not sure how this relates to your question. It does just highlight a little about how many different variables there can be. Do I believe that desiring someone alone will make it happen? No. There would be a lot of plain joes and janes married to movie stars if that were true.

Another variable would be how one defines fantasy. Some of mine are 'real' and some just made up stuff. It's nice to know the difference.

[DemExpat]

11. I have wondered about this all my adult life too, IHAD,

and don't feel sure of an answer from my experiences.

I guess I would tend to feel now, looking back over my life and what I have learned, that the very best, meaningful sex I ever had - not too often, I'm afraid - was with an incredibly strong soul connection with my partner, and that all of the fantasizing about violent or kinky sex had more to do with lust on a lower level. I see these as more masturbatory fantasies for personal sexual release than precursors for heavenly sex, but that might just be my personal take on this.

I used to think that my sexual fantasies of being raped had to do with my "shame" of my lust, thus only being able to engage in a lustful act if forced.
Add to this my strong feeling that in my youth I felt my physical beauty and sexual attractiveness was a very powerful tool, the only tool I focused on that time, to gain personal attention which I craved.
So I used it and my fantasies to have power over another person or persons, and this to me does not now seem to be a spiritual "place" to be coming from.

I also don't see it as really thoughts or wishes to attract like energies, but on the other hand I do see them as being part of a "lower" level of being - which, in my book is not saying that this is "bad" or less worthy, just at a different level.
So perhaps indulging a lot in these fantasies would bring on similar experiences in reality. (Like adultery, for example?)

Please let me be clear that these are all my personal experiences and observations, and not something I think would pertain to everybody.

When I think of someone who I feel/imagine is highly evolved spiritually, I can't really imagine them engaging in violent or kinky sex fantasies or promiscuous acts!
Sexual, yes, but not stuff of many of our fantasies.....is this my rather Puritan Jesus example of an evolved being (from my youth) dominating my reasoning/feelings?

What do you all think?

DemEx

[I Have A Dream]

14. Very interesting, DemEx.

How do you think one gets from the "lower level of being" sexually to "heavenly sex"?

I'm very impressed that you have thought all of this out and are able to articulate it so well.

Thank you for your thoughts!

[DemExpat]

47. This thread is great!

I see sex as being so multi-layered - certainly to be enjoyed and NOT to be repressed - but ideally to be shared intimacy and pleasure with a trusted partner.

And of course I speak from my female experience here.............

Sometimes its the biological urge to procreate that attracts us to setting the conditions for the sexual act - I experienced sex in my late 20s and 30s as a pleasurable and demanding urge to receive, (seed?) and in these years I conceived and had my 2 children.

Sometimes sex uses fantasies with no limitations to help us bring into awareness certain mentalities and beliefs that we have concerning bodily pleaures, gender, power, self-esteem issues, need for attention, etc. Sometimes just an urge to release high levels of energy or tension.

Heavenly sex to me has to do with a real soul connection while making love - this is difficult for me to describe - and I can only personally compare it to a soul connection I had once with my sister while we were on a particular drug together in the early 1970s.
The intense and very conscious soul connections I have experienced have been the most rewarding and fulfilling experiences of my life, and have to do with rare lovemaking (2 of these resulted in conception of my kids), giving birth, nurturing my children, the drug induced (but REAL IMO) connection with my sister, my parents' deaths......

When I watch porn I feel it is all masturbatory sex having little to do with a real connection and exchange of energies. This to me is what I consider to be "lower level" sex, and I experienced this type of sex as well in my 20s......which always left me feeling less than satisfied (spiritually).

One gets to more "spiritual sex" - or "holistic sex" I believe by experiencing sex and looking at what it DOES for us and our souls, so of course I do not believe in sexual repression or repression of fantasis - it is a great school of learning! :D
Sometimes very painful, but some lessons are hard.

DemEx

[Why Syzygy]

16. Evolved Spiritually

Violent, no can't imagine. Kinky? Dunno. Would you classify Tantric/Sacred Sex as 'kinky'? Some would.
I wouldn't think those seeking or having been spiritually enlightened would harm another person intentionally. In any way. As in using them for ego gratification.

[DemExpat]

48. I wasn't clear in my word choice here....

I think I used kinky to be "loveless", mechanical sex, with little to nothing to do with love or soul connection.

No, I see sex as being "anything goes" between lovers.

DemEx

[SeattleGirl]

17. Interesting thoughts, DemEx

On your point about violent or kinky sex: to me, they are two different things. I think of the violent kind as where on of the persons involved is doing so against their will (or at least, their conscious will), whereas with what might be called kinky sex is, to me, something that two people would engage in willingly.

For example, there are a lot of people who engage in S&M. In their everyday lives, they are everyday people, but now and then, they might want to experience something different. It feeds a part of themselves and they don't feel bad, or odd, or strange about it. And, in the best kinds of those experiences, there is the "stop" word, which means STOP. It is usually used by the submissive, and the one that is the dominator must respect that. Both are in control of themselves, and the point is not to inflict undue harm on someone. I think that in those cases, especially if one were with the right person, it could add to the relationship, not detract from it. The minute either of the people felt uncomfortable, then it would cease to be something good, and it should be stopped.

I looked into this after watch an episode of "CSI", where a woman who was a dominatrix ran a brothel that specialized in S&M. I'm not going to debate the pros/cons of brothels; it's just that it was interesting to me because Lady Heather, the woman who ran the place, was not some weirdo or pervert IMHO. She was a woman who recognized her sexuality and it's power (in a positive way), and accepted it in the way it was in her.

I know that to some, it may seem weird or perverted, but again, I don't think it's always the case. I think the most important thing in any relationship is the connection between two people. I've been celibate for 8 years (long story). I know I could have "stepped out" on my husband, picked up some guy, had a one-night stand, but as much as I don't like the celibate thing, I would hate a one-night stand even more. THAT would do harm to my spirit, and I'm not willing to do that.

[lildreamer316]

34. My best friend is a dominatrix.

She does this only ocassion now. I find it facinating because I don't personally identify with the lifestyle; but have been privy to it through her. The psychology is facinating. I think many people seek it as a release from some of thier mental constructs.

[SeattleGirl]

40. I see it the same way -- a release from mental constructs.

Based on what I've read; I thnk the same can be said for the submissive. And as I said, as long as the two people involved are entering into it willingly and openly, I see nothing wrong with it, because it is a choice for both of them. It seems that it would enhance ones power, in a positive way, rather than diminish it, which would be the case in a situation where one party was an unwilling participant (ie rape).

[DemExpat]

50. But I still see this as working in the frame of reference of power/submission

and even as it may enhance one's power in this context, (with an agreeable partner) I think it is still hovering below the level where the very best sex can be experienced. :D

It also still comes across to me as very contrived and "played" as in a theatrical production, and not what I have in my mind and heart now of what sex can mean, and what it can create, if only in a few moments, between 2 people.

DemEx

[SeattleGirl]

54. I understand what you are saying.

I think ultimately, it is up to the two people involved. Some people like to "play", and for me, that would be fine, as long as there were no strict "rules" that the experience HAD TO stay within that "play". If the play serves as a doorway to the couple to move on from there, that would work for me.

[DemExpat]

49. Yes, SeattleGirl

I misused the work kinky above - see my last post.

I also think it is fine when people experiment to seek limits and discover what their sexual drives mean to them. You are right, you can generally tell whether people are doing what they do from a place of strength and balance or from some other "situation".

:hi:

DemEx

[davsand]

19. I don't really view LUST as shameful.

Sex drive is a primal one and with that in mind I doubt there's much wrong with feeling lustful. I think the issue of judgment comes into play if the desire is manifested in ways that are problematic--like acting illicitly outside of an agreed monogamous relationship or with someone who has an inability to make informed consent.

I honestly think that a lot of women have non-consent fantasies because our culture teaches us that sex is not "nice" somehow for women. We are taught beginning in childhood that sex is for making babies and for "not nice" girls. For a lot of women, the only (mental) respite they have from either a partner, or a lack of a partner is in fantasy--and even THAT respite is a guilty one. If it is a matter of being (mentally) "swept away" or possibly even (mentally) forced they can relax and enjoy the ride rather than feeling guilt for it.

I doubt very much that too many women WANT to be raped. I think that many women want to be having some kind of sex that is outside the norm for them and that the non-consent fantasy is a way to give ourselves permission to step outside the every day stuff.

Sex magic, as I understand it, is a matter of using the sex act to focus energies and then release them when they have peaked. The sex itself isn't the thing so much as the focused thought (or energy) you put out at the moment of climax. If you stop to think about how many ritual magics work (including prayer!) it is a matter of raising energy and then releasing it in a directed target or idea. Sex magic is just one more avenue to help with focus...

I doubt highly that most of us are sending too much negative energy out there when we are at the "moment of truth." I wouldn't worry too much about how you GET there, and I wouldn't feel too guilty for it either.

Just my two cents.



Laura

[DemExpat]

51. I did grow up feeling that my lust was "nasty"....

a very prude mother and puritanical father.....I never say my Mom or Dad naked, for heaven's sake, so naked bodies themselves were something to always hide!

So I had to go through a lot of sexual experimentation to find out what it could mean to me in my life.

If I did one thing right with my kids it was giving them a more relaxed and natural feeling about naked bodies!

:hi:

DemEx

[davsand]

67. If you thought your family was uptight...

Check this out:



http://www.whitehouse.org/initiatives/purity/advice.asp

"President and Mrs. Bush hope that you never have to deal with the tragic heartbreak of a child who masturbates. But the sad fact is, masturbation is rampant among today's youth. The first step toward dealing with a problem is to recognize that the problem exists. Here are some of the most common warning signs that your child may be masturbating:

ACNE: Does your teenager have acne? Masturbation often leads to excessive hormone production, which is the primary cause of acne. Very few teenagers who don't masturbate have acne.

DEPRESSION: Is your teenager depressed? If a teenager acts sullen, withdrawn or unhappy – the most likely cause is chronic masturbation.

DESIRE FOR PRIVACY: Does your child lock his or her bedroom door? It is not healthy for a teen to desire privacy. Chances are he or she is in there masturbating..."



I posted this link just to make everyone smile. This is a link to one of the funniest places on the web, IMO. This is a joke website with some kind of connection to the Landover Baptist website (which is equally funny for those of us who are seriously twisted.)



Laura

[SeattleGirl]

69. ROFL! I don't even know how to respond to THAT bit of info from

Mr. and Mrs. "Do As I Say, Not As I Do," except laugh my ass off! :rofl:

[I Have A Dream]

70. Oh, I am *so* glad to hear that this is a joke! It's pretty sad that I could...

actually easily envision something like this really being created by the "abstinence-only" crowd.

[SeattleGirl]

74. Dream, have you ever read or heard the stuff that these nuts say?

It's absolutely crazy.

And what's really bad is they emphasize "tradtional" sex (i.e. vaginal penetration). I was listening to Al Franken one day, and he had a woman on who debunks the stuff the abstinence-only crowd says. She quoted from several reports that said that the incidence of STDs and AIDS is on the rise with young people, because they have unprotected anal sex. The absinence-only crowd bangs the drum so loudly for keeping a girl's hymen intact, but they don't address other sexual activities. They figure if they don't talk about them, the kids won't do these kinds of things. What bullshit! These freaks are causing far more harm than good.

There is nothing wrong with abstinence, but it should be an informed choice, not a stick-your-head-in-the-sand thing!

[stellanoir]

18. HEY NO FRIGGING SEX THREADS !!!

Dream I know you knew I'd chime in with that sooner or later. I'm blaming OB though 'cause if memory serves she did that to me on my fire parable thread a few months back.

I'll go and fetch the link on edit shortly.

Here it is. . .

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=245&topic_id=29524

Sex is sacred. It's denigration by so called "Christianity" through the ruse of "original sin" and the demonization of the divine feminine ("Christ's beloved was a ho") has only resulted in a rather HUGE taboo around what is potentially the greatest key to our ability to manifest greater love and magic and healing. It's suppression has only resulted in deviance, pediphelia, abuse, and disempowerment on so many levels.

Now having stated the obvious, I know for a fact that porn (our most lucrative export along with weaponry-oh joy) empowers sleeze buckets only and disempowers the individuals indulging it. I know this only from cruising the freeways in LA and feeling a totally low life energy from a distance and then coming up to a car (a Bentley, or a Jag generally) that sported "Erotic" vanity plates or some such crapola.

Yet in terms of fantasizing about people you know whilst in a monogamous relationship, I'd imagine that there is sometimes a karmic issue being revisited on the level of imagination. It may in some cases be a reclamation and retrieval of old dispersed energies. In others, it may be scattering those sacred energies of a union even further.

Probably like everything in life, it's an energy exchange and one can palpably discern whether it's empowering or entirely depleting.

I go back and forth about this issue all the time, not in regards to sexual fantasies but in my consternation over writing and compulsively giving it away on the internet, That which rules creativity, applies to children of the mind, body, and spirit as we all know.

I had a really funny conversation with an old lover who is very wise several months ago. He is not on the internet is on the left coast, and we rarely speak. I had promised him that I would send him my writing last spring, then had a computer crash and could no longer print stuff out.

So six months later I called him to apologize. He said, "Hey ______ (my real name,) I wrote a really incredibly beautiful novel, but I wrote it on the surface of a swimming pool with a stick."

Ahhh. . . he's now a Buddhist. He then apologized for the joke and I told him that it was an utterly perfect. It totally cracked me up that he came up with an amazingly apt metaphor for writing on the internet with no familiarity whatsoever.

Beyond that silly aside, I KNOW that I've felt physically in a measurable way when certain others were. . .ah. . .er. . .thinking fondly of me.

I generally use energies,not specific bodies in those circumstances but that's just me.

In summation, I'd say, just pay attention, know these energies are more powerful than most know, and consider proceeding with caution.

[SeattleGirl]

20. stella, I like how you phrased your response, specifically regarding

the build up and release of energy, and targeting it.

Sexual energy IS a very powerful energy, and if used mindfully, then it's all to the good.

[I Have A Dream]

30. Thanks, stella. I meant to respond to this last night but it got lost in the shuffle.

I always appreciate your wise words.

I found the following quote very interesting, even though it's only tangentially related to the topic:

"...porn (our most lucrative export along with weaponry-oh joy) empowers sleeze buckets only and disempowers the individuals indulging it."

Are you able to articulate further in reference to your feelings about this issue? (Not about things like the fact that some of the women who may only be doing it out of desperation but rather how it disempowers the individuals who indulge in it.)

Thanks!

[stellanoir]

32. Okay thanks I'll try. . .

I tend to view almost everything in life as an energy exchange.

After I do 90 % of the readings I do, I feel exhilarated. When I do a slew of "quickies" at events, I've a lot of trouble settling down from channeling that all that energy and driving a long way. I sometimes mention that I'm recovering from "third eye fry" the day after gigs but that's from tuning into many individuals over a short span of time, as well as staying up far too late and screwing up my normal "early to be early to rise" scenario.

When I do private readings over the phone or in person at a more relaxed pace, there isn't that sort of fallout or depletion.

Though it's rare, periodically I read for someone who seems to have several woe some tape loops playing in their brain and pouring endlessly from their mouths. It's as though they can't even hear anything but their own words. That sort of encounter is very depleting as my efforts are falling on deaf ears.

Similarly when I write political, spiritual, astro oriented stuff for GD, it's as though I can feel people reading it and processing the words and concepts and it pulls my energy into another dimension from which I then crash.

In many of these instances, the primary problem is reentry into my RL and there being a rather huge disconnect in integrating and balancing the energetic stuff with my circumstantial reality. I try achieve a better balance all the time.

Now. . .in light of intimacy between two individuals, there is normally a dynamic of give and take.

Given my perception on the freeways of LA, spuriously encountering the sleazy energies around porn moguls at far more than 50 feet, I would imagine that those indulging in porn are releasing their $$$ and chi, and not getting a whole lot back aside from visual stimuli and subsequent release.

Since energy can be neither created nor destroyed, that energy has to go somewhere if it's not being reciprocated, mirrored, and perhaps intensified by another human being.

As with many spectator sports, indulgence in porn can be construed as a Mars projection wherein people disengaged from the lives of others gain energy projected on to them.

Heres one sorta extreme theory I printed out last year (can't remember from where) for my son but I've not yet shown it to him. . .

". . .Multi-media sports are just an escape from our own existence. It's like gambling, or drug addiction. It provides that buffer zone of rooting for something which other people that we've been told is good. People's fantasies also lead them to fixating on sports.

Its stimulated masculinity, in an age where there is a push to change us from men to robots. It's human nature to resist and fight that which is suppressing us. The sociologists and psychologists in areas of influence know this. Spectator sports prove the outlet internationally for what has been stripped away from us.

We've lost the right to rebel and change our government through warfare in necessary. Today the bulk of the nation's population doesn't know what's really going on with the fall of the American dollar and the plans for the transfer of American wealth to other countries.

However, most can tell you who the top basketball or football players are. . . "

I think I heard a statistic that 9 out of 10 men in this country use porn. The vast majority of people feel as though one person cannot make a change. Methinks there is a correlation there.

Hope this made some sense. It's a tough thing to describe but is something I've felt for a long time.

[lildreamer316]

35. I'd really like to get back to you on this.

I have a very close relationship with someone who was very involved in porn. He has a unique perspective about why men in general like porn so much (your statistic being a good example).
I don't want to hijack the thread too much though.I'll try to get a concise answer out of him and post.

[stellanoir]

37. I'll be very interested as to what he has to say.

You reminded me of a thing I saw on the tube in the early-mid 90's. They interviewed a bunch of guys at Penn State. They were ALL saying that they were indoctrinated into porn (probably magazines) around puberty and the result was they were paralyzed in their interactions with women. They were unable to get aroused by anything that moved and talked because they were so accustomed to responding to 1 dimensional still images.

These guys were at their sexual prime and I couldn't believe it. They interviewed at least a half dozen of them.

(I don't really think were hijacking the thread as we're just speculating on the various aspects of sexual expressions and possible repercussions)

[I Have A Dream]

38. There's no such thing as "hijacking" in reference to my threads!

I like the "conversation" to go wherever it leads. (Sort of like everyone's out to dinner together! :))

[Why Syzygy]

39. The only one

I ever asked, said it was exactly what you mention. 3D is too much 'work'. He would rather spend a few minutes surfing for porn, I think that's part of the excitement too, the procurement, and a few minutes tending to himself, and not have to bother with a real woman. I think there are times when the effort is worth his expended energy to spend time with RL women. It's part laziness part habit.

Another friend, who was a 43 y/o bachelor, was into porn. He didn't date much. He did finally get married and moved out of state, so I guess that worked out.

Women's bodies are lovely. An artist said the curved lines please the eye. That's true. Curves capture our attention. But the porn I've seen only uses women as props. The real attraction is what is going on with the man. So there may be some insecurity about endowment.

This is a subject I posted about several months ago due to a personal upset with the topic.
I really wish I knew.

[SeattleGirl]

41. Hi votes. I wanted to comment on what you said about the real

attraction in porn is what's going on with the men. In most cases, that is true, because most porn is done by men (ie, written, directed, etc.).

However, there are some women who have written and filmed porn, and the perspective is quite different. It isn't all about the men in those cases. IMHO, the women in these cases were portrayed as much more than just "receptacles" for the men.

I'm not sure what your "personal upset" was with the topic, so I'm not trying to influence you or anything like that. There is some porn that I like, but I also know that some people don't like any of it, or may have a different opinion on it than I do. I mainly wanted to address what you said about it being mostly what's going on with the men.

[Why Syzygy]

43. I was vaguely aware

that there is porn produced by women. I'm sure that tells a very different story.

I am opposed to it based on my experiences with it and how it was being used. Of course it is possible that if it doesn't interfere with a real life situation, or even enhances it, that it would be fine. I don't care what people do with their sexuality as long as no one gets hurt.

[SeattleGirl]

45. I quite agree with you, votes.

When something harms, rather than enhances a relationship, be it porn, or excessive drinking, or even video games, then it's not good.

My daughter had to put her foot down with her fiance over his addiction to an online game. She said it got to the point where their lives were being scheduled around the game, as opposed to scheduling his playing time around their activities. They both took a whole month off the internet, except for anything that had to do with work, and he is no longer hooked on the game.

[Why Syzygy]

55. I'm glad they

got that settled! I could never live with someone who has to have the tv on. I very rarely watch and find it annoying quickly. Someone got jealous of my DU usage. We weren't even dating! Tough luck is the way that goes. (He was a tv addict, so?)

[SeattleGirl]

56. I'm glad too.

And they don't have a tv at all, so they don't have that problem (which some people do -- addicted to it), but the computer game thing was really becoming an issue.

[Pathwalker]

44. Stellanoir, may I ask you a question?

Could you please elaborate on how sexual fantasies re a karmic issue being revisited on the imagination,a reclamation and retrieval of old energies, or a scattering of the energies?
Also, is it possible that a person may feel others fantasies that have been sent to them by someone else? And how could you tell if they were?
Interesting thread.
:hi:

[stellanoir]

46. You already did in your post title LOL.

I'll respond to your question with a question and a speculation.

Why do I feel like Horatio?

"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy."

--From Hamlet (I, v, 166-167)

I think there are innumerable nuances, circumstances, and complications that comprise intimacies, both real or imagined.

The litmus test may be whether a person feels better or worse after that sort of exercise and that too can vary.

I KNOW I've felt and identified some of those projections because I've verified them with various sources a bunch of times over the breadth of my life.

Sans judgment, my primary point is that anyone who thinks that what we do with our sexual energies doesn't matter, may want to reconsider.

[Chemical Bill]

24. Well...

have you thought of asking your partner, latest conquest, or "friend with benefits" to gently or appropriately act out this fantasy? Then you will have harnessed the energy without having to unconsciously arrange it with some stranger.

Bill

[I Have A Dream]

25. Yes, that's another option, Bill.

What's your opinion in reference to my original question?

[stellanoir]

26. oh you simply can't ask him that silly LOL

[SeattleGirl]

27. Oh, I think you could, in some situations.

If you are in a relationship with someone, and wanted to try something different, then I think you should say something. Of course, if that person says, "no", that answer must be respected.

[Chemical Bill]

71. Well...

I think that the original question is too loaded for me to give a short answer. But I'll try: Yes.

However, the long answer is that one in, what, four women get raped in their lives. If we create our own reality, why would we do stuff like that to ourselves? I personally was molested as a kid, abused by my father, and mugged a few times. Did I do that to give myself something to talk about? One way of looking at this is to say that we create our own reality by reacting to life on our own terms. For example, I could fret about the past and let this keep me from living in the now, or I could let go of the past and take each day as new. I can also look at "we create our own reality" to mean that nothing that will ever happen to me will be something I don't want on some level. This is usually harder for some to accept. I think that this POV is important for me to maintain, even if it isn't true, just because otherwise I would see myself as a leaf in the wind. It is empowering for me to think that I am responsible for whatever happens to myself, even if this isn't something I can prove.

Given the premise of the LOA, it does me harm to dwell on things that I don't want. But a rape fantasy is not the same as a pessimistic outlook. That's why I went right to the part about creating your own reality in an empowering way.

How's this one: After I saw "The Secret", I got rid of all the porn I had that contained threesomes, because that isn't what I want.

Bill

[SeattleGirl]

75. I keep thinking about ths, Bill -- the number of women who get raped.

I wonder if, rather than thinking at some level "I want to be the victim of a rape", that maybe there is a general victim mentality about the person (and I am NOT saying this in a blaming way) that causes them to be more open and vulnerable, and it is manifested in them "attracting" a rapist to them. Again, I am not blaming the victim of a rape, just wrestling with the whole concept myself.

I'll try to illustrate what I mean:

I grew up with an alcoholic father and a self-described (in later years) "screaming fishwife" mother. There was a lot of negativity around me, and at that time, while I always believed there was something bigger than us that exists, I really didn't have the conscious tools to protect myself from the negativity.

Thus, I grew up with a victim mindset. I always saw the glass as half-empty, always saw myself as the victim, always heard "Why does this always happen to ME?" in my mind. The only kind of attention I seemed to garner was negative attention.

Over the years, through therapy, 12-step groups, and finding information about the LOA and other types of information, I've changed that quite a bit. My mindset overall is much more positive; thus, my experiences are too.

So again, while a woman (or even a man) may not have conscious fantasies about being raped, there most likely is a mindset that is more negative, for whatever reason, that may leave them more vulnerable to being harmed.

[DemExpat]

52. This works with some couples, I understand.....

but to some the very act of asking might take the wind out of the sails of that fantasy, so to speak. :think:

DemEx

[SeattleGirl]

57. I think you have to really know, or have a good sense of, the person

in order to ask. At least, that's how it is for me.

[Rock_Garden]

28. Fascinating thread!

I've been researching this one, but so far haven't found much supporting evidence either way. However, I'd like to go on record as saying that any woman who fantasizes about rape puts out victim thoughts into the universe, about herself in particular and about women in general. Others may disagree.

But as far as erotic fantasies go, in general, repression of them must surely be far worse than venting them, don't you think?

I'll keep researching. There has to be something in print on this one. Fun stuff!

[LaurenG]

29. The only problem with fantasies is created thought forms

You'd have to be pretty powerful to create them into being but thoughts are things at some level. They get caught in the aura and gunk it up. All thoughts do that though. We are all always creating something and sexual fantasies are no exception.

Thought-forms

Nonphysical entities which exist in either the mental or astral plane. Each entity is created from the thought. Every thought is said to generate vibrations in the aura's mental body, which assume a floating form and colors depending on the nature and intensity of the thought. These thought-forms are usually seen by clairvoyants; and may be intuitively sensed by others.

Theosophists and clairvoyants Annie Besant and C. W. Leadbeater placed thought-forms in three classifications: (1) the image of the thinker (see Bilocation); (2) an image of a material object associated with the thought; and (3) an independent image expressing the inherent qualities of the thought. Thoughts which are of a low nature, such as anger, hate, lust, greed, and so on, create thought-forms which are dense in color and form. Thought of a more spiritual nature tend to generate forms possessing a greater purity, clarity, and refinement.

Thought-forms can be directed toward anyone, but to be effective they must latch onto a similar vibration in the other person’s aura. If they are unable to do so, they can boomerang back on the sender. Thus, working according to the occult theory, one who directs evil toward another runs the risk of having it return.

The strength and clarity of the original thought determines the duration, strength and the distance of travel of its developed thought-form. It is said that thought-forms can have the capability to assume their own energy and appear to be intelligent and independent. Equally strong thought-forms can disperse them, or they may disintegrate when their purpose has been accomplished. Some may stay in existence for years, while others can become uncontrollable and turn on their senders.

Thought-forms, in magic, are also called "artificial elements," which are created through ritual involving intense concentration, repetition, and visualization. (see Egrigor) They can be directed toward individuals to protect or heal, or to harm. Also, thought-forms can be created to perform low-level tasks and errands.

http://www.themystica.com/mystica/articles/t/thought_forms.html

[I Have A Dream]

31. RG, I totally agree with you that repression of erotic fantasies is far worse...

than visualizing yourself in a sexual fantasy with someone other than one's monogamous partner. I think that sexual repression is the cause of many of our societal ills today.

Interestingly, your response made me realize that it was only when I gave myself permission to take control of my own sexuality that I was able to give myself permission to take control of my own spirituality and have the focus of my life change from being a "religious" quest to being a "spiritual" quest. This was a fork in the road for me. I don't know why what you said made me realize this, but it did. Thank you for this!

[SeattleGirl]

42. Dream, I love what you said (and you, too, RG)

I've had a similar experience, in that when I stopped making my sexuality "wrong" or "nasty" or something like that, it seemed that it freed a whole part of myself that I had kept under wraps for most of my life.

Our sexuality is also an energy, and when we repress it, or look at it in a negative way, we repress part of who we are. How can we hope to be fully awakened when we keep a part of ourselves hidden away?

Accepting that part of ourselves, not hiding it from ourselves anymore, does help release us to become more fully who we are, as does accepting any other part of ourselves we may have been repressing.

[DemExpat]

53. I can't help but agree with you here, RG,

However, I'd like to go on record as saying that any woman who fantasizes about rape puts out victim thoughts into the universe, about herself in particular and about women in general. Others may disagree.

From personal experience. But what entices women into these fantasies may be a need to be able to participate in a lustful act when they feel subconsciously it is somehow not "allowed"......

DemEx

[lildreamer316]

33. Hmmm. This one is interesting.

I have wondered about this myself. I really don't know the answers either.

I will say that I had a lot of worry (not guilt) about this happening to me because it did. Almost every time I found someone attractive and fantasized about being with them; it happened. Of course this was not always a good thing in the long run; and I cheated on my then fiance a number of times.

It is interesting that since I am in my current relationship I have had no need to include anyone but my husband in my male-dominated fantasies most of the time. If any other males are in the mix they are not specific people known to me. I attribute this to our particular connection and many personal experiences, of course.

As to scenarios where rape/danger is involved; I know this is quite common. I myself worried this could become a problem and do not really engage in them so much; however if I do I just set a strong intention that this is just a fantasy; and try not to give it much emotional power. I do believe that in general this would not be allowed to happen to someone for whatever reason; because one is in pursuit of joy/pleasure/satisfaction in the experience and not desirous of pain and damage.

This is something I don't really know as much about as other aspects of the LOA.It will be interesting to see what we uncover.

[I Have A Dream]

36. I was hoping that you'd reply, lildreamer, since you're such a strong...

believer in the Law of Attraction.

Thanks for your input. Interesting that you also thought about this.

[Rock_Garden]

58. This is embarrassing, but I think I have to reverse my position.

So many of you agreed that repression does the most harm, and that's surely true. By definition, that must include rape fantasies, too. It occurred to me that our sexual fantasies tell us a great deal about ourselves. It reminds me of a great article I read some time back about the qualities of women's sexual fantasies. The author of the article suggested that women replace negative fantasies with more positive ones, and use that to work with how women feel about themselves.

And I'm feeling repressed right now, by the way. This subject just begs for all of us to volunteer a fantasy or two. Don't worry! I'm not going to do that, but I wish we could do it. If we were really out having dinner together, you know we would tell them, and laugh - a lot!

[I Have A Dream]

59. I see stella written ALL over the last part of this post, for some reason!

:rofl:

I'm sorry that you're feeling repressed, RG. I hope that you find a way through it soon. stella might have some ways; she's great with stuff like this! :D

[stellanoir]

60. Hey

A mere five posts is rather muted for a blathermouth like me.

Sun/ Merc via combust, what can I say???

too funny.

[I Have A Dream]

61. Come on, stella, looking at her last paragraph, isn't there so much that...

you could say if it wouldn't get the thread locked?!! I can actually hear it in my head at this very moment!!

:rofl:

[SeattleGirl]

62. Dream, you are incorrigible!

:rofl:

[stellanoir]

63. okay. . .how's this for kinky. . .?

"I co create with spirit that all those leaders who don't hold the greater good for ALL in their hearts as their absolute top priority, be exposed and stripped of all their power-pronto."

(from my full moon thread)

Yup I'm totally debauched that wayyy.

[I Have A Dream]

64. It won't get the thread locked, and you still somehow got the words...

"exposed and stripped" in there. Only you could do that! :)

[Why Syzygy]

65. LOL!

:spray:

[Rock_Garden]

66. Wow! Steamy stuff!

I'm gonna try some of that co creating myself!:7

[stellanoir]

68. go for it honey

it can't hurt surely

[stellanoir]

77. go for it !!!

[Chemical Bill]

72. One other thing...

what does it mean to embody the feminine? My ex went to a workshop where the leader (a woman) said that women were born into this life to experience the receptive, the submissive, and the reactive (no, it wasn't Phyllis Schaffley). Anyway, is a rape fantasy just an extreme of that? Are you just trying to tell yourself to stop for a while and just take it all in (pun intended)? I recognize that we all have masculine and feminine (being a Cancer Sun, Aquarius Moon), so rest assured that I'm not telling you to get back into the kitchen. I'm telling you to value the kitchen as well as the front door.

This reminds me of the joke where the MCP is asked about the secret to his happy marriage. He says that he makes all the important decisions. When asked to elaborate, he says that he decides what the president should do about foreign policy, while his wife takes care of the unimportant stuff like where to live or send the kids to school.

Bill

[SeattleGirl]

76. My first response to reading your post was, are you SURE it wasn't

Phyllis? Since I wasn't at that workshop, I'm just speaking here from my reaction: it sounds like the message to the participants was that they should be less than who they really are. These kinds of things are designed, IMHO, to make women feel guilty about their strengths, their power, their positive sense of who they are, and to replace it with some fake "rules" about what women "should be". What women SHOULD be, and this goes for men too, is who they really are.

I believe men ARE both masculine and feminine; the problem comes in when a particular group tries to make everyone conform to a particular way of being. "You are a woman, so you must act THIS way." "You are a man, so you must act THAT way." Ugh!

The world will be a much better place when we can rise beyond these kinds of things.

And yes, the kitchen can be just as valuable as the front door (I assume you mean working outside the home?). That's the way it is in my house: MrSG is a fabulous cook, and I make more money than he does. We actually laugh at people who look askance at us because we don't follow the "tradition" way of being....

[Chemical Bill]

79. Phyllis doesn't value the feminine any more than most.

What's the stereotype that right-wingnuts use to cut social spending? The welfare queen in a Cadillac. If we really valued the feminine we would give all new mothers Cadillacs on their way out of the hospital. We would be paying six figure salaries to welfare mothers. It is so ingrained in our society that...well, you know.

Anyway, the workshop leader in question leads transformative spiritual tour to Egypt. My ex got a lot out of the tour, but you know she heard what she wanted to hear. She needed to slow down from running a (big) small business.

Our society doesn't really support the wise woman (or man) who lives at the edge of the forest and gets by on the largess of Mother Earth. Property taxes are too high. Sigh.

Bill

[SeattleGirl]

80. Thanks for the additional info.

As I said, my initial reaction to your OP was pretty negative, and I knew I was responding from that POV.

And yes, we often hear what we want to hear, as opposed to what is really being said.

Sadly, our society does not support wise men and women, choosing instead to see them as oddballs, or eccentrics, or people to be afraid of.

[Chemical Bill]

73. One more other thing...

the LOA doesn't say how your wish will be granted or who will fulfill your fantasy. So maybe your partner will be the one. And you always have a choice. The three steps are:

1) ask (you)

2) answer (the universe)

3) RECEIVE (YOU)

Bill