I am having issues with my church and pastor

[FirstLight]

yep, it's a bad day anmd I am feling really emotional...BUT here's the deal. I work as secretary for my church, have since may of 07...last year was mostly okay. I was very grateful that Spirit had me working in a place I felt safe and able to screw up from time to time and still get through it and accomplish some things too... my review went better than usual, so I got a raise and was supposed to get a raise this month.

Instead the whole thing fell apart in November...and I have had my hours cut to 8 a week!
to top it off it feels like nobody even cares about the hardship or pain it has caused me, and the pastor is just a young dude who could care less...he has a cush job and everyting paid for, why should he give a crap?
I used to love going to church, used to feel inspired by his sermons and really enjoy serving in any way I could and feeling part of a communty.
I haven't really gone to church since november, and barely 2 people have even called to ask how I am doing...much less the pastor or his wife, who I thought was a friend. (They are boh about 6 years younger than me, about 33)

I just sent them a email and let it all out
and told them that instead of coming in to do my hours,
I'll do them from home and print the bulletins at night when nobody is there,
because I am so upset I don't even want to look at them.

I thought communities of faith were supposed to be better than other people. and this isn't a chrstian thing or not, because I still have plenty of pagan/unity friends who are flakes too... just thought spitirual folks were supposed to try harder, make more of a comittment to eachother, etc..
this is just upsetting because it is a group of 200 people who I spend weekends with and offer my love to - and then get left to fend for myself...

ugh
faith? what's that?

[SheilaT]

1. Do you think it would

do any good to try to talk to the pastor and explain your situation to him?

[FirstLight]

2. Oh, I sent them a detailed email and let it all out

he replied that "he was so hurt that his choice was to NOT respond..." whatever that means.
I forwarded the email to the church council and at this point told the council president that I am about to just change churches and have them fire me (so I can at least get unemployment) because at this point I don't want to be there in the office being a public figure for the church when I am so pissed off...
here's the copy

Dear joel & amanda-

I am having a rough patch today, so perhaps this is a litle more emotional than I would like it to be. But I feel that I have come to a real crisis point in my relationship with both of you and my feelings about being a member of the church. I feel very let down and abandoned, by you both...and by the church as well.

When I took on the role of secretary, I felt it was a ministry and that I was doing something important for the people of Hope Lutheran... and for God. My own life was still far from perfect, and it felt like I was offered a safe place to begin to feel like I really could accomplish something and make a positive impact. While my work may not have been perfect, my review was basically positive and I was much harder on myself than the council or pastor was...I knew improvements would happen over time....

There have been at least 2 breaches of trust in the past year - First was Joel reading an email to amanda and deciding that I had a "problem" and demanding that I take action to rectify that. Second was this fall, again, by joel overstepping boundaries and demanding that my friendship with amanda be limited...
This also had a direct effect on my job, by my hours being reduced and by being put on probation...instead of being supported, which was all I have ever asked for. I have tried to talk about some of these feelings, but while in the moment, joel, you say the right things to get me to stop feeling bad...yet your actions have proven otherwise.

When I became a member of this church, joel told me that he was going to take Trevor (my 16 yr old) under his wing and be there for him as a positive male role model. You have never followed up on that by calling or making the effort to contact him - I have been the one pushing Trevor to show up and talk to you at your office, but there has never been any follow through with a deeper connection for him. we don't need another male in our lives making empty promises, it just adds to the wounds.

I have always tried to respect your privacy as a family and individuals - i often refrain from calling home to just chat with amanda because I fel like I am encroaching on family time. Not only that, but I feel that the conversation is not private, so I have to watch what I say. I am trying to find different friendships than the ones I have had over the years, trying to get closer to people I admire, yet I feel like a pest or like i'm being held at an arm's legnth...Amanda & I were just starting to break through that barrier as friends in November, then the whole thing fell apart.

Just to speak to the things that happened in November -
First, I went to the women's retreat with no preconcieved notions, and proceeded to open up some very deep wounds about feeling accepted...especialy in a church. I shared that I had never had a family that was whole, that I never grew up in a church like everyone else there, and that I have always felt like I was "less than" in a church group because of this... these are huge wounds..(and I will deal with them in therapy)
Upon returning, I adnmit that I was overly emotional , but I went to work anyway - when pressed by Kirsten about that whole sunday school thing I did overreact, and I explained that to you later
- but still - I NEVER received an apology as a parent or as a church member for her being the way she was...
if it had been ANYONE else, she would have been the one reprimanded.
Instead, I get put on probation with MY job
-I lose my friendship with amanda
-and my kids are left without a solid foundation to grow their faith
needless to say, my faith has suffered as well....

NONE of my suggestions or needs as a parent or as a member have been addresed. I gave you a list of very well though out ideas about sunday school, even sharing them with Mr Chris (who wholeheartedly agreed) and Donna, I even apologized to Donna myself...
and yet, I am the one left out in the cold. and WAS Kirsten EVER reprimanded for her behavior? probably not. and she isn't even a member of the church!!!!
Donna doesn't even share with me the dates or time for the education team meeting, so how am I as a secretary supposed to handle that? much less as a church member who just might want to attend...I guess I am not told because I am not wanted, at least that is what it makes me feel...

I have not come to church for over a month, and niether one of you has called to ask why or see if things are okay. The meeting last tuesday was general and "normal" I am keeping up with my hours and duties , but I don't think anyone has stopped to think how much the reduction in hours has caused hardship to us. Nor do I think anyone has really thought about the fact that it may take more than 8 hours a week to do the newsletter and 2 bulletins... if I go over in hours, will i get paid, or will I get in trouble again?
I have no trust that I won't be raked over the coals for the slightest infraction. If I hadn't been keeping up with the bulletin and making sure things went smoothly while the computer has been down, that would be the only time someone would have noticed ...
and would you have thought "Lisa's flaking..." or "Something must be wrong, is she okay?"

I feel that noone cares and if nobody cares aout me and my family, ESPECIALLY the pastor, and someone I thought was a friend, his WIFE - then why should I even show up at ALL?

Yes, I am overemotional as usual, feeling abandoned as usual, and "Lisa's drama" is what you will see when you read this. But as a person who had come to this church as a place to feel safe, a place to heal, and a place for my children to grow and feel faith...I think I am entitled to let you know when I feel let down.

Tomorrow is tuesday, and I am supposed to show up for hours, and I am still debating whether I would be better to just do my work from home and avoid contact or if I should show up and talk this out...
perhaps it depends on how you reply, because I am really angry and upset and don't feel like my presence would help anything. It would be better for you to just email me the bulletin for wednesday and I'll print it at night when nobody is there.

[Delphinus]

3. Are you sure you can get unemployment?

Be careful ... know your state.

That being said, I feel badly that you're going through such a rough patch right now! :hug:

[FirstLight]

4. you know, I live in CA

I know that if I quit I don't get benefits, I also know that it may not even matter, since I have applied for welfare,

and as much as I am second guessing what I say or feel...I know that I defended him from more than a few parishoners that thought he was being a flake and that he even told me that was a part of my job, was to hear peoples complaints and tell him so he could deal with it. After being HIS advocate, i get shit on... not cool

so I followed procedure, I told the people I was upset with what the problem was, and then I let the church council know I was upset...the rest is really up in the air. My review was NOT bad, and the "probation" bullshit from November was more a way of them phasing me out beause they knew they were going to cut my hours. They cut my hous because the churh budget was short...but they didn't cut any other programs...so why me?
I don't need to be treated that way by someone who I defend and treat with honor and respect,
you know, it is things like this (the clique-mentality) that make me angry with the church as a whole

and it breaks my heart because there are folks I have come to love there, and folks who love my kids...and it hurts that I may have to leave that extended family

[crikkett]

21. did you consider the idea that your 'kitchen' dream is a response to this crisis?

Stand up for yourself but remember that a woman still loses credibility when she loses her cool.

My mom had to quit her job as sec'ty of her church b/c of a personality conflict w/ overpaid pastor & abusive deacons (one was trying to steal & she stopped him-- talk about making enemies!!)

I bet they cut your hrs. because there was an assumption that you'd do the work anyway.

Sorry that you're falling out of love w/ them. I know it hurts.

PS forgive 1 hand typing - sleepy dog on lap.

[Why Syzygy]

5. Merc Rx

may be dragging up old stuff for you. Communication isn't going to be the clearest during Rx, ya know.

[Proud_Lefty]

6. I'm so sorry you're going through this, Journalgrrl

Every time I have felt my wonderful boss(es) knew my value and would always back me, I have ALWAYS been extremely disappointed. Especially now, so many people are being uprooted from situations that no longer suit them. It's hard and crushing, I know, as I'm currently going through it myself. Let yourself mourn the losses and then look within for direction on where you need to go. You will find it if you listen close enough, but I'm just not sure how long that'll take. Remember that when that old door closes, you need to look for the new one that's opening for you.

I've also realized that most people fall short of our expectations because we all have such different standards in our relationships.

I'm sending lots of light your way and am praying for the very best for you.

:grouphug:

[MorningGlow]

7. Aw, JG

:hug: :hug: :hug:

I'm so sorry you're going through this. I read through all your deets, and I've gotta say, I'm getting the feeling that Mama Universe is pushing her little fledgling out of the nest. It might be time to find a new community, because this one doesn't seem to be serving your needs very well.

As the other folks on the ASAH board can attest, many of us have been "separated" from our longstanding groups, belief systems, surrogate families, etc. recently. (I left my coven a while back, and it was gut wrenching, but it was the correct action.) It seems that this is happening to get us into position before the shift--losing deadweight--those people who are not serving us well and are more of a drag on our spiritual development than an aid to it.

Take a good look at your church--despite the emotional attachment and your expectations as to what role a church community should play in someone's life, are they serving you well? If not, well, then you might have your answer right there.

If it is time for you to separate yourself from your spiritual/support community...well, I'll be honest--it won't be easy. But it will be necessary. And the Universe won't leave you alone till you make the change. Trust me--I've been there.

Talk it out here, JG. Most of us have been through some sort of change like this or are going through it now. :hug: :hug: :hug:

[FirstLight]

8. ya, merc RX is being a serious beeeotch

I know that part of this is my current situation in everything. I have been trying SO hard to make lemons out of lemonade in so many ways in all aspects of my life, and I am exhausted...


and wtf am I supposed to do? shit, all my resources are drying up, my focus os for shit, and I am struggling to even make a step in a positive direction for the overwhelming and freezing fear that I may make the "wrong move" and find myself STILL in te shit anfter another 10 years of struggle!

damned if I do and damned if I don't

I hat e to lose my extended family at the church, and yet I have left people behind before to move into another realm of life...it hapens, i know. It jusr sucks to have my kids lose relationships that are important to them as well. Haven't we dealt wth enough loss for christ's skae!

add to all of this that my medical and prescriptions were screwed up in classic form, leavig me in a depressive lurch and feeling very fucked up today, add to that I didn't do my history paper (first asignment) and slkipped class today because I felt so shitty) skipped the gym (PE class at the college) too...real nice way to shift things...don't show up!

and I am just so breaking under all the pressure

and to have a "friend" whom I reach out to for caring not return my calls is just one of the last straws (his wife, I guess we really aren't friends...)

ugh...time for another epsom salt soak... i sat in the tub and cried all morning aready...no wonder i have a headache

thanks MG for all your love & support, I SO appreciate this place and all of you who let me vent as the universe has its way with m life...thanks for going through it with me too...

[crikkett]

22. Here too - i couldnt accomplish jack* yesterday

[I Have A Dream]

9. I'm so sorry that you're hurting, JournalGrrl.

:(

I so wish that life would change for you so that you had more of a security blanket. I understand your feelings of helplessness. Your plight so reminds me of what my mother went through while she raised me and my siblings. I don't know how she did it; I don't even think she knows how she did it. You have my utmost respect. :hug:

[FirstLight]

10. got another response this morning...

and honestly, I don't know what to think or do...are my feelings just me freaking out?
I understand that really they didn't have a clue that I was not happy, but sometimes that whole thing of "I wonder if you would have been upset no matter what I did" is just a way to turn it back on me

he says he has prevented the council from firing me on several occasions
and agreed that our relationship is enmshed because he is my boss and my pastor...but as a pastor that we are a joy to have , blahblahblah, which feels patronizing, even though i am sure it is heartfelt

maybe it would be best of they just fired me so my other job can be free to come through...is that the thread that is preventing it?
do I need to take control and say "no mas" so I can get back to just being a parishioner and/or be done with it?

I recognize that I do get posessive of jobs, and the reduction of hours and having 'volunteers' come in to fill the gaps offends me.(though i realize that the lady who asked me about my hours wasn't trying to help me get more - she was going to cut them!)
I guess that's MY issue. supposedly, the reason i was put on probation was becaue my life is "chaotic" and because I was missing work and having trouble being professional...though professional was never something I was told to be. he also points out that i hurl stuff at him because he is one of the only males in my life (which I have admitted)and that it isn't fair for me to unload my feelings of abandonment on him...

if there was an easy way to adress this, i guess it will come
but at this point I am just sick to my stomach trying to figure out how to be graceful and loving and still just walk away. I don't want to have my relationships end like this, it seems like when things are done, they have to fall apart...why can't they shift without that factor?

just going to take today "off" and try to figure it out

[Why Syzygy]

11. Wow.

I see someone here who cares about you and is willing to tell you his truth and how he feels and what he thinks about you. What a gift! Am I wrong?

[Celebration]

14. your "chaotic" life

Chaos tends to feed on itself, resulting in even more chaos. I'm not sure what universal law this is.

Your story sort of reminded me of a close family member of mine. She tends to mainly address issues when she is in an emotional state, and kind of let them go when she is in a more stable place. This is understandable, but, when you think about it, rather unproductive in terms of getting the results you want and need. Just about the only way I know of to interrupt this pattern is doing meditation, etc.

I don't know your whole story, of course, but I keep remembering when I was really justified in being completely ticked off at a teacher of one of my children. I was right and she was wrong. Yet, I knew she was a good teacher. I didn't plan this at all, but I ended up writing her, and then sleeping on it before sending it. Then I edited it, and made it perfect. Then I slept on it again. The next day it wasn't perfect enough and I re-edited it.

Then, finally I didn't send it, because by then I realized that the result would be counterproductive. She already knew my position. I've told this story before here, because in the end, over a decade later, her son married one of my daughters. Wow, it's awkward enough as it is. What if I had sent it?

I'm trying to say that a little strategic thought before acting can sometimes be a good thing. I know it's hard to do with a life in "chaos." That is where the meditation comes in. It can really help.

[FirstLight]

18. quick note about chaos

I always seem to be trying to eep my life at an even keel, and things putt along for no longer than 1.5 years or so and then shift radically... even when i am content...the rug just goes out from under me...

and I have had friends over the years that I have observed in chaos much worse than mine and felt that they bring it upon themselves...but then I look at mine and say either "why me" or "fuck it"

issues, issues...all coming to the surface for light to be shone upon...
I'll be glad when this part of "the Shift" is over!

[Celebration]

19. numerology

I listened to a numerologist once, and she said that people born on "4" days of the month are here to learn lesson. So, that means, the fourth, the thirteenth, the twenty second, and the thirty first of the month. I don't remember if there was another way that "4" could be part of their name or birthday.

I do know that I have immediate family members that fall into that category--one is born on the fourth, and one on the twenty second. Things have come into their lives that are real challenges. I don't know if this applies to you or not, but just mentioning it here.

[crikkett]

23. it's the law of entropy

at least on paper.

[WhiteTara]

12. even the Dali Lama is a human being

but I'm sure it is a shock to see a Christian community act like everyone else.

May I suggest you find a women's circle. You will find support there.

[tanyev]

13. Journalgrrl, I'm sorry you are going through this.

I hate to tell you that communities of faith are no better than other people, and in my experience, they can be worse or at least have more power to hurt you.

I grew up in the church--my dad was a pastor. Fortunately, he was a fairly gentle soul (who I suspect might have been happier as a professor in an obscure field at a sleepy little college somewhere), but I could tell you many stories about the people he (and I) worked with through the years. I was in the LCMS, more conservative than your church, and I have often wondered if the more conservative a church is, the greater a magnet it becomes for unstable and manipulative people.

I went to a Lutheran school all 8 years of grade school, a Lutheran college to become a church worker, and worked in several churches. I only made it through two years of full time work before I was on the verge of burn-out. After that I did part time church work for many years in combination with other full time or part time jobs.

Because of my background, I really wasn't dismayed by all the ins and outs of church politics. None of that surprised me. What did surprise me after working several years in a county records management office and a city library system was how much more appreciated I felt at my secular jobs. The secular jobs were so easy. I just showed up and did the best work I could do, and people respected and acknowledged my accomplishments. Once the work day was over, I went home and didn't think about work until I went back the next day. The church work (church music) was almost the exact opposite. To be fair, each church I was at always had a few people that made the effort to tell me that they appreciated my work, but eventually I started to feel like everything I had to offer was being sucked out of me by an insatiable beast that needed to be fed every single Sunday, and took it for granted that I would be there to do the feeding every single Sunday.

Last year I told the church I was at that I would be leaving at the end of May and I haven't regretted it for a second. I consider myself on an extended break from church work and my husband and I are happily visiting more liberal denominations and even skipping some Sundays without a speck of guilt.

The first two congregations I worked at had pastors that were real jerks. I know there were times after I had meetings with them that I went home in tears, but those memories have faded now. Each church had some really great people, but there were also people that I didn't miss very much. I guess what I'm trying to say is that just because it's a faith community doesn't automatically mean it will be a healthier environment than any other place. The support groups we create from the people we love, no matter where we meet them, are the ones who will keep you going.

Hang in there. :hug:

[FirstLight]

15. wow, wow, wow

I just got back from a long drive home from dropping the kids off at school, and turned off the radio and played devil's advocate with myself...
came to the exact same conclusion - that working at a church either needs to be done by someone who cares but has iron clad boundaries, or by someone who is NOT a church member and has no attachment to the people and their views of what they do or who they are... going to church on sunday became work for me, and that was not healthy

AND - that I AM still at a place in my life where I need healing and comfort, and I need to be able to get that from my pastor or friends or mentors, etc...but that I don't do well when I look for it from a boss. period. the two don't mix. my professional life ALWAYS does best when kept at a adistance from my personal life...
now, that IS sometimes difficult, being a single mom...BUT it is a hell of a lot easier when your boss doesn't know your life story.

I am also very sure that by opening up that time, that energy, I will be more likely to secure a job/carer that fulfills me...financially and mentally. Being secretary is a challenge, but it is not my life goal to be a good secretary.
I want to be either in a classroom or a newsroom...that's IT. so I think I need to committ to that.

finally - I would rather take a break and try some new churches, and even just enjoy the new mediation class that is coming up Thursday.
Funny - I have a friend from my old circle who I will be going to meditation class with, and her and I remember that there is a certain phenomenon when you sign up for a new meditation or workshop -
the energy in your life shifts to align you to the lesson coming.
We have seen radical stuff, sometimes increasing dramatically within 3 days of the event, and 7 days following. well - that fits, doesn't it?

I am going to have a massage today by that same friend...her new massage studio isright next door to the Tribune, too...

[Why Syzygy]

16. Is it possible for you

to substitute teach or work as a teacher's assistant?

[FirstLight]

17. that's plan B

I have the application for the neighboring school district already on my desk, just have to get it done...they already had me working substitute TA and afterschool program last year ...so no worries about getting in, just wonder if I coudl get a solid schedule, but I ould do subbing anyway.

I also just sent a follow up to the paper, so we'll see

the govt training program caseworker and I are hooking up friday to see if there's a plan C, or what the next step is

[FirstLight]

20. Holy cow! talk about instant manifestation!!!

So, I answered another emil this morning just letting it go, and letting the chips fall where they may, saying I'd rather be a person who came to church because I felt good, not because I had to, and that the boundaries were too hard for me to deal with, that's all, no acusations just owning it.
I kept thinking to myself "open the space up and see what comes to fill it..." "gotta make room for the next wave ..."

and I also sent a follow up email to the editor I have been wanting to speak with, making a couple points of what would be good about me working there, etc... and said, looking forward to hearing from you...no attachments no desperation

then I told myself "just walk away from it..."

at first, I went to go lay down and nap until my massage appointment

then I thought if I want to shift the energy, I have to really show up and do it

so I got up and worked out for 30 min before my massage, my girlfriend did reiki and we moved alot of energy...

and I came home to 2 emails...released with no obligations and with love from the church job
AND the editor wanted my phone number and to know when she could call me!

wild ride, ain't it?

I guess the energies really are flowing strong and shifting! I am glad I decided to join in - glad I had some cognition about it all...meditation, running enegy and sleep, the best deliberators! ...oh, and working out!!!!

[juno jones]

24. Glad to hear that things are looking up.

Having lived on the hill, I know how precious a good job up there can be, throw in attachments to the people and the cause and it is painful to have to make changes.

Best of luck with your meditations and new manifestations! :hug:

[FirstLight]

25. where'd you live up here?

Ya, I have been in the fishbowl for 16 years and had lots of attachments come & go, so I should be used to it by now. If I see it as part of the growth-curve, I can be more released about it. I still don';t know how to handle the relationship side of things. I want to go to church sooner or later, because I love my "family" there...but perhaps a break is fine.

What's hard to hear is my friend (who gave me a massage yesterday, and is an awesome seer) telling me that my time in the christian belief system isn't resonanitng with my anymore, that I know full well that my beliefs are not aligned there, and that I need to accept it.

spirit is pushing me to own my beliefs and thoughts...especially that I believe in co-creation and instant manifesation...which Jesus taught, but never realy "caught on"...so when I sit in church I hear the words in a totally different context, and that may no longer work...we'll see, I am not ready to let go of my relationships yet...

[juno jones]

27. South Shore

It's a beautiful place and we loved it, but the unreliability of good work pretty much exhausted us after a couple of years and we split. The (at the time proposed) *Apsenification* of the area added to our decision. Rents and cost o' living were too much what with me getting laid off from the restaurants I worked at on a seasonal basis. Most of my friends still there either do what they can or are self-employed (and do what they can). So I wish you luck with the Tribune.

If I had something stable to hold me there, I could have stayed on forever. I miss the lake, snowshoeing in the winter and skinnydipping in the summer...;)


It does sound like you are realigning yourself. You don't have to let go of your relationships, but you might find that some drop by the wayside as you become more in line with yourself about the context of the Jesus's words said in church and your interpretaion thereof. I'm not sure it has to do with no longer resonating with any of your christian belief system (you don't sound like you've thrown it all over to become a raging pagan or even a pastafarian :) ), but it certainly points to not resonating with somebody else's idea of a christian belief system. It's probably a part of spiritual growth and it sounds like you have other spiritual support outside of the church to help fill in the gap. I'm guessing that you will find others to share your views and someday they will be as much of an inner circle of friends as the people you are growing away from and leaving.


Good luck and fair winds on your journey.

[LiberalEsto]

26. That's so good to hear!

I hope everything continues to work out for you in the best ways possible.

[MorningGlow]

28. Hi JG

So glad to hear things are working out! Wow! :toast:

[FirstLight]

29. ...ya, a little fearsome, but better than stuck in the yuck

still no phone call from the Editor...but it has only bee one day, and she said she has to talk to the Publisher...
meanwhile, i am just beating the bushes for some more freelancing (under the table perhaps)

AND the Meditation group I am starting tomorrow has a 4th level student (I am in level 2) who is an OLD friend...kindergarten playmate and college best friend, huge crush, and he is still fine AND single! yum!
Maybe there is something to this new spiritual group, eh?

[MorningGlow]

30. Woo! Bonus!

Fingers crossed for you! :hi: