Just three things coming from radio host Thom Hartmann today that belongs in this forum.

[Cleita]

Well, I am still listening to the show. First thing he said was that the universe was sending us a message with the airplane crash yesterday, considering where it was in NYC first. Second the fact that everyone was safe, no one panicked, and the airplane didn't fall apart was a sign. Also, thirdly, the first boat to reach the airplane and who took on most of the passengers was called the "Thomas Jefferson". Thom called it an omen. He's certain that the universe was sending us the message that all would be well starting from that day forward. He believed it is the beginning of real change. Then he had Senator Bernie Sanders on like he always does on Friday morning. Bernie said he was going to give us some news since the MSM seems to have missed reporting it. He reported what Congress has been doing since the new one convened and mostly what he evaluated was positive and seemed promising for real change. Then he had Dr. Ravi Batri on, an economist, who has been pretty accurate in the past for predicting economic trends and Dr. Batri, spoke of a bright, bright future, once we pulled out of this economic quagmire, because he thinks Americans will never permit a repeat of the events of the past twenty years that have brought us to where we are now. Wow, talk about these down to earth and professional persons gazing into their crystal balls for us. I think ascension has reached them as well.

[northernlights]

1. That the plane didn't break apart was a sign

that the pilot knew what he was doing and did it "by the book."

Not to take away from the omen aspect, but I'd call it a sign that competence and experience matter.

The pilot was older and very experienced. He made the right judgement call to land on the river instead of trying to make it to the nearby airport. And he landed correctly....essentially like a ground landing. Harder bump on the passengers, but straight on, with nose up and wings level to maintain maximum boyuancy for as long as possible.

And the news reports said that he walked the aisle not once, but twice, to ensure everybody made it out of the plane before he rescued himself.

A real hero, unlike the toy soldier we've had running this country (into the ground) for the last 8 years.

[Cleita]

2. Yes, but ask yourself why this experienced pilot was given this

trial flying over this particular city and not another one. I'm only repeating what others are speculating on but this is a spiritual forum and we are allowed to speculate on this here.

[northernlights]

4. Huh? I never said anything about "not being allowed to speculate"

and I'm sorry you feel you need my permission ;-)

I specifically stated I didn't intend to take away from the idea of it being an omen, I just think the safe landing was due to competence and experience.

So feel free to take it as an omen...competence and experience are on the way in. The pilot was a hero, and I'm very happy he was the pilot on that particular plane.

[lostnotforgotten]

15. The Pilot Is An Experienced Glider Pilot - There Are No Better Qualified To Make Dead Stick Landings

eom

[peacetalksforall]

8. You're right to approach it from a practical and logical way. At the same time,

I can also imagine a different outcome where people were talking about the pilot doing everything perfectly, the aircraft being of top design to land on water, the water calm and still one little explained or unexplained thing happens causing some deaths.

What was wondrous was the location - exactly next to people who were minutes away who were equally capable.

In a simple way, perhaps too obvious to mention, we might see ourselves as the country being the passengers and the aircraft coming down as our downslide, the survival as continuation and being able to rise up.

I've had two different dreams of two different airlines colliding in the same way and both airlines went out of business soon after. By saying two, I need to mention that this was not 9-11 - it was way before that time.

I like to analyze the practical and logical and keep an open mind for synchronicities, allegories, different realm translations - makes it easier to talk to all kinds of people and develop a belief system over an extended period of time.

[Why Syzygy]

3. Neato.

And then the final moronic speech from squatter last night! He didn't mention ONE word about the plane. Nothing for him to gain from SUCCESS I suppose.

[NJCher]

5. what competence and experience means (context)

I was thinking about this, too. I didn't listen to Hartmann so it's interesting to me that others were thinking in the same vein.

If it is an omen, here is my two cents worth on what it means: a true professional can do an astonishing amount, do amazing things, can be a hero and can save the day.

It has been a long time since we Americans have seen a true professional. All we see are people like bush and cheney, who are liars and frauds, pretending to be president and vice-president when all they really are thieves. We see Bernie Madoff, who pretended to be a Wall Street Wonder when all that time he never even executed a trade. Yes, that came out today--all those trades he told his clients he performed on their behalf were never executed. And that is what we are so used to--until yesterday.

We've had a glimpse of a true professional with Obama during the primaries. I marveled at some of his political moves--defeating the formidable Clinton political machine--and I am still in awe of some of his moves. The way he is treating John McCain is an example.

Sullenberger is the consummate professional. He was able to take control of a disaster and land the plane and everyone came out alive. When one reads about Sullenberger's background, it becomes apparent that he didn't count on his "gut" to carry him through. He is an example of preparation meeting opportunity. I don't think I need to recount his professional background--anyone who has been watching the media or reading on the internet will know that he devoted an enormous amount of effort into being a safety conscious pilot. His wife said he was a "pilot's pilot."

Sullenberger has shown us that a true professional can make a difference. Many of us feel like passengers on a plane that is nose-diving toward earth. Just to see what a true professional can do is a gift to all Americans.

And that, I think, is what the omen means.



Cher

[Why Syzygy]

7. Know what I've been thinking a lot about lately...

is how in EVERY job I've ever had, SOME kind of dishonesty was REQUIRED. When I did tech support, we were supposed to lie, pretend we worked for the primary provider, when in fact we were an outsource company. When I worked in a flower shop, you would be surprised how often we used flowers we knew weren't fresh (at SOME shops, not all), or the owner used extreme markups. Just a couple for example. These were not huge dishonesties. Just lies. I wonder if that's why when I do business with someone, I don't quite trust what they tell me. I know there is something THEY know that THEY are not "allowed" to tell a customer. I've just been on the other side too many times to doubt it. If that is our corporate culture for even such a peon as I, how much more are higher ranking employees required to lie, not just to customers, but their subordinates. It's just biz as usual in the good ole USofA. I hope that's some of the stuff Pluto sweeps away. I wish everyone would just be HONEST.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

10. America is all about mediocrity and conformity.

This mediocrity and conformity has destroyed our economy, destroyed our country.

I have also left the workforce, disgusted that all bosses were bullying, cajoling, lying, just generally behaving strangely. They don't like people with educations, people with skills and competence.

Dilbert has nailed it for years and years. Incompetent managers.

And the corporate bastards have sucked up all the money, fired all the workers and now the system is cratering upon itself.

I sure hope that Pluto will bring corruption and dishonesty to light and we will repair our country.

I feel like I wasted my college and graduate school education (3 degrees, 12 years of college) because I never had a mentor. I was never appreciated for what I could do for an employer. I was shunned, ignored, or fired, or never given a chance at all because I did not have the right friends (I guess -- I honestly don't know).

I felt like I believed a cruel lie, that with a good education I could go anywhere and do anything, and find a job I loved. Fortunately, I graduated before student loans became such a burden to students.

We Baby Boomers were such a huge cohort that life was terribly competitive, and being smart and having all the right qualities was not good enough.

I hope that when the economy comes back, I can work at whatever is my right livelihood. It will be someting creative like painting or music or encouraging people.

[Why Syzygy]

12. You describe it well.

I woke up thinking of the worst place. My boss had slept her way to her management position. It isn't illegal to do that, in case you wondered. She was stabbing me in the back, going behind me to people I had already conferenced about the project I was assigned, changing everything! No one wanted that project, so they hired me. Then she set about to sabotage me. I changed departments. In the new position I sat in on contract meetings. We were signing a contract with a government agency with a requirement we KNEW we were incapable of executing. The manager just said, Legal would handle it if it ever came up.

Yeah. I don't shed a single tear when I see that kind of business on the skids. I hope that type of management skids right off into the Abyss.

[northernlights]

13. in my last really good job in hi tech marcom

I was hired to take the results of a large study and use it to ghost write a book on "business-to-business."

During my interview, the CEO (a psychologist who fancied herself a great artiste working in high tech product design) lied by omission about when she'd done the study. She said in the fall. She failed to mention in the fall the year before, i.e. the info was 15 months old, not 3 months old). In high tech, 6 months is a generation, so the info was already outdated, lol.

Anyway, after I got started, I very quickly uncovered a much, much bigger "problem." But the CEO refused to meet with until I produced a draft. So I cobbled together a draft in order to get her to meet with me.

She was a nasty witch, and after the first couple minutes in the meeting, I'd had enough. I can be a nice interviewer, or I can grill you like an angry CIA agent. She made her choice. I thoroughly enjoyed the rest of the meeting. She was not so happy.

You see, the little problem I'd uncovered was that her entire study had been 100% plagiarized...from the #1 book on B2B, which had been published 6 months *before* she started her study. Her unfortunate group of clients paid probably a few hundred thousand each for the identical information they probably had read 6 months earlier in a $20 book!

I tried to resign, but they insisted I stay even though there was nothing left for me to do. Guess they were afraid of the ramifications if I did leave. 6 months later, 9/11 and a couple months after that, they dumped all but the core people. They're still limping along. It pays to be a liar and thief in our society, and it's paid really well under bushco.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

20. I was working for the Government part of the time.

And the Government is not going out of business due to incompetence.

I worked for the County, in the judicial system.

[northernlights]

14. bingo

that's exactly where my thinking was headed. I hadn't quite made it there yet, but you nailed it.

[Missy Vixen]

6. I was thinking earlier this afternoon

While it wasn't fun for the passengers, they all will go home to their loved ones. I think this was a huge encouragement to the people of New York. Due to the hard work and planning of hundreds of people, they managed to get everyone out of the plane and out of the water, and instead of reporting something absolutely tragic, everyone who saw the coverage had to marvel at the calm professionalism of that entire crew and the pilot landing the plane. I also wondered about how some of those participating in the rescue have a good memory now, instead of the ones I'm sure they still have from September 11th.

As you said, Cleita, we've been living with those for the past eight years who believe that we don't deserve the truth, professionals or real leaders at the helm of our country, and we've been thrown into chaos as a result. It's encouraging to me to know that 155 people are alive today because one guy knew what to do.

I am hoping that this is a great omen for the coming administration, and that we will continue to see real leaders step forward to point us in the right direction.

Julie

[Dover]

9. Interesting you brought this up Cleita. I also had a 'feeling' about it when I heard the news.

And I guess my take on things is a little different. When I heard the news I was overcome with
a feeling of very deep calm and surrender from the perspective of a passenger. And when I felt
that, I thought to myself....wow, those people were able to connect with that peace that comes when one willingly surrenders to the Divine. So my sense is it was their collective 'peace' and acceptance that affected or created the outcome. While of course I give that pilot the immense credit he is due, I also feel this incident was indicative of something much bigger than one man's skills and demeanor. They became one...the pilot, crew, passengers and the plane itself. They were 'in the flow'.


Here is one account:

AN EERIE calm descended on the the 155 passengers on board US Airways Flight 1549 yesterday moments before it crash landed into the icy Hudson River.

"There were no screams, tears, just a strange peace," the only Australian on board, 26-year-old Emma Cowan, said last night....cont'd

http://www.news.com.au/adelaidenow/story/0,22606,24919925-5006301,00.html


If we could all connect with that inner peace and acceptance that transports us beyond fear, just imagine the miracles we could experience together! How soothing and healing for the world.

[I Have A Dream]

17. That's beautiful. nt

[Manifestor_of_Light]

11. Ravi Batra is one of the few economists that is trustworthy.

I have a couple of his books. He is a professor at SMU in Dallas.

He makes many predictions by analysing economic trends. He predicted the fall of the Shah of Iran and the fall of the Soviet Union, among many other things.

He predicted a Great Depression in 1990. It took much longer than that to happen, but it is here.

[Flying Dream Blues]

16. thanks for this post...I was feeling something like this but couldn't quite

put my thoughts together. This feels exactly right...that perhaps we are in danger, but with faith and the wisdom and judgement of the man in charge, we will all be ok. We have to face the crisis, and there will be fear and maybe some despair and even injury, but in the end as a whole we will have come through it, so have faith and trust, and do our part to help others make it.

[Celebration]

18. see this thread

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x4855353

"The auspicious portent and revitalizing symbolism of Flight 1549"

[Cleita]

19. Wow, it seems like everyone is seeing this as an omen! n/t