astrology versus the rest of the post here

[2Design]

I am feeling like we need a forum just for astrology.

Anyone else with me

[Pathwalker]

1. WHY do you think that? For starters,

this forum doesn't move so fast that threads get lost - the first page has threads that haven't had posts in well over a week, so it's not as if the astrology threads are getting kicked down into oblivion quickly.

Secondly, many of the Astrologers here have important knowledge to share regarding the other subjects covered here, and so I don't see why we should have to go to another seperate forum just to discuss the other topics which are similar.

Thirdly, there are many forums on the net for Astrology ITSELF, and as a longtime DUer, I have always felt it a victory that this forum was created here AT ALL. I like this group just the way it is, and was designed to be.

So, I vote no.

[Pallas180]

2. ditto 28ERL- we asked for an astrology forum - and Skinner was convinced

by others to throw all the other new age sujects in with it.

[2Design]

3. they seem to be farther out than just new age

they just are odd

I want to put them in a forum called
the obscure things

I come looking for astrology and rarely see it
I keep posting to old threads just to revive them above the others

we seemed to have more exciting threads when it was in meeting room even though some flew by - the weird and odd didn't seem to take over
maybe before those threads were in the lounge - I don't know

just my feeling
I know some others like these threads because I see the number of post to them

but for me they have nothing to do with spirituality either

astrology is a science - it seems to be in with the fantastical here
and therefore it loses its scientific creditibilty

[Eloriel]

58. No, Pallas, YOU may have asked for astrology only, the rest of us

and I'm specifically thinking of DesertRose's work on this (but many others as well), wanted and were perfectly happy to have something very much like the Meeting Room without the hassles.

[Pathwalker]

4. I guess you changed your mind, then, 28erl.

When this forum was under discussion you specifally requested that these different interests be part of this group.

Link: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=111x40325#40654

If you disapprove of these "other" threads, then perhaps you could choose the hide thread feature. I know I would greatly miss all those wonderful articles Dover posts, even if I don't post on them I still enjoy reading them. Is it the Alternative Healing threads, those who need support and seek it here,the Tarot readings, or the Earth Changes? The Ascension threads? WHICH threads do find so offensive you would request splitting up this Group?

And considering how sllllooowwwlllly threads move here, I gues I don't "get" what you find so offensive about the other threads.

[2Design]

5. ok I eat my words - I don't want to get into flame war

here

your right I have other choices
I will use those choices

[Pathwalker]

6. I'm not trying to flame you, I just don't understand WHY

you feel that it would be necessary to seperate them from this group, so I asked. I wasn't trying to flame you. Heck, there's subjects here that I have "issues" with, but I even read those threads. Sometimes I chuckle, sometimes I roll my eyes, but I enjoy seeing other people's opinions on the many subjects covered here. I sincerely HOPE we're not required to agree with everything written here, 'cause that WOULD be a problem for me.

Anyway - PEACE. I wasn't trying to start anything - just trying to understand.

[Cha]

7. I love astrology but on a

scale.. I am a novice, but I did notice when this forum was started the Moon was Void Of Course. I don't remember the specifics but I was bummed that it was initiated with a VOC MOON.

Do you think that might have anything to do with what has happened?

On EDIT~ I don't have to remember..it says right on the heading that the Astrology, Spirituality & Alternative Healing Group was started by Skinner on Fri Nov-12-04 10:47 PM.

[Pallas180]

8. Actually, in the Meeting Room none of these other subjects ever appeared

Astrology threads were the only "other" types, besides the skeptics haranging that ever were in meeting room.

And yes I would suppose VOC Moon probably has a great deal to do with the fact that it has turned out otherwise.

Additionally, many of the astrologers have left, or like me, rarely check in and contribute because there is so little serious astrology.

I think what 28ERL is saying is what I have implied a few times...I miss the serious discussion and contributions of astrology.

But, c'est la vie.

[2Design]

12. yes that is right - these other types did not appear

when I originally said let's include other types - I had no idea how out in the ether they could go

I was expecting something different

I do miss the astrology discussions and at this point am giving up - I may just post astrology in the lounge from now on - the new meeting room or go back to the old meeting room - it is still out there

not sure what is the right choice for me - but this is no longer working for me

[Pallas180]

17. 28ERL - I had the same idea, however

posting back in the lounge or meeting room would leave us open to
the harangue of the skeptics again.

It might be a better avenue to go back to Skinner, or for that matter
anyone is allowed to start a new topic under DU Groups - We could ask for " Astrology Only" as long as 10 people would want it, I think the rule is, it could be started.

Do you want to check with Skinner or Elad?

[2Design]

34. posting in the other areas also brought in those interested

in astrology
The one person who use to be a pain - I believe is gone

It might be in our best interests to go to the lounge or some other forum where we might find others interested in astrology

the old meeting room most would never know to go there

HHHmmmmm maybe just finding another group that is active will work

can we post in Gen discussion or will it be deleted and moved

Which other forum moves and draws people in

there weren't that many harassers - just a couple who came to get people ticked and then get their threads deleted -

I am starting to lean toward another forum that is a main one

[Eloriel]

60. You know, 28erl,

you've already been caught "changing your mind" or whatever about the kinds of subjcts YOU wanted to include in this Group forum, and you have refused to answer a perfectly polite question about what subjects or threads, exactly, are OFFENDING you.

I'd like to remind you again of what has already been pointed out to you: the proper cure for threads you don't want to even SEE is the Hide Thread function. There's another cure for PEOPLE you don't even want to see, and that's the Ignore Function. I recommend them highly.

[DemExpat]

14. I wonder why these have dwindled down?

Sorry I cannot contribute much to Astrology threads - as a consumer but not a student of it I am very interested, just can't initiate/add to good discussion.

Love reading and learning from them, though!

:hi:

DemEx

[2Design]

15. having the mix is ok - I just want to take the astrology name somewhere el

I think we can leave having the mix but take the astrology name somewhere else

[Eloriel]

59. That's not true either, Pallas

You've got the most amazingly selective memory of anyone I've ever seen.

*I* have not changed my interests, and I was posting roughly the same things there (even Feng Shui, as I recall) as I post here. I posted TO threads very much the same as I find here (only a lot fewer of them, it seems).

[Dover]

9. Astrologically speaking, this thread feels very much like

the manifested energies of the Mercury,Venus,Saturn conjunction as well as the Mars opposition to Jupiter.



Pallas do you really want to go around about this issue again?

[Quakerfriend]

10. Haaaa! So true, Dover.

Personally, I like the mix.:toast:

[vanboggie]

11. Ditto

I like the mix, too. A fascinating range of information is in this forum.

[DemExpat]

13. I vote for keeping this fascinating mix, too!

:toast:

DemEx

[2Design]

16. Pallas is not the one who brought this up

I started this thread

I just want to take the astrology name somewhere else

It is fine for you to have the rest here
You can keep the spirituality, alternative healing group and the odds and ends that are posted here in clumps

People can then come here for those 'other' items that are consistently posted here

I just want a serious forum without the far out stuff
I am not saying you can't have or want those 'other' threads - they can stay in this group

Let us take the astrology part of the title somewhere else

[Pallas180]

19. Dover, when I buy something, take it home, and

it doesn't fit, I take it back.

Pallas do you really want to go around about this issue again?

Dover, I don't appreciate your isolating and addressing ME on this point. Sounds as if you want to argue.

And if you go back to Meeting room when we discussed this, I wrote Skinner and asked for astrology, and a couple of you, I think it was you and ANj wrote you were already taking care of it, adding alternative healing etc etc etc ..
as a matter of fact if memory serves and it doesn't always, there were even more subjects the two had wanted to put in...

This is no longer the place for astrologers. Two people generously started a teaching thread. Which just died. And as a matter of fact, one was chided because they were told, "the other person is doing a thread and you should wait for them". That was pretty outrageous in my opinion.

NOt enough astrologers participate anymore, and apparently the participants here are more interested in channelng 40,000 year old faux spirit, novice tarot card and novice psychic predictions. I can't even cover all the topics here that are NOT astrology.

Do you see more than one or any thread on mundane/political astrology, that I haven't started with the exeption of Nancy's copy of her individual site? and the ones I've started in the last week?

I dont see your objection to a separate Astrology thread, AS IT USED TO BE. For astrologers it has gotten f--king boring here..they don't come, don't contribute, which is why the threads have been taken over by ---everything but.

Seems to me a couple of you are having issues of control here.

You should know astrologers are Uranian. That's similar to saying they're democrats, they don't belong to any organized party.

[Eloriel]

61. Oh, Pallas

Why do you think the astrologers don't come here any more? Do you REALLY think it's because there are topics that aren't astrology here? I don't. I'm one astrologer who doesn't come here (much) any more. And believe me, that's NOT the reason I don't come here, and it's most definitely not the reason I don't participate in most of the astrology threads.

You're assuming a false cause here. If the astrologers were interested, they'd MAKE the forum lively and keep your threads kicked out of sheer joy for the discussion. Something's wrong with the JOY for the discussion, and it's NOT the non-astrology threads. Nor will moving astrology somewhere else cure the problem.

[Desertrose]

18. How'd I miss this thread?

Ok here's the deal I got from Skinner way back when we started this- we were one of the first forums here....

We had discussed having separate forums for each topic. Skinner, IIRC ,really felt we should try to consolidate and not have separate forums. Some agreed and others disagreed. (Me, with my Libra asc could see both sides)... I was happy just to get away from the skeptics at that point.

Bottom line...I felt we were very fortunate to even get our own forum since, lets face it, TPTB are not into astrology.

Hey, does anyone remember when they took the "metaphysics" out of our title?? Guys, we are lucky to have this space. If there are not enough astro threads to suit you, then just start more. If they don't get a lot of posts & replies, take that as a clue. That goes for any and all topics really.

Sorry if some feel certain posts are too out there...you can hide them or ignore them. I think we should be able to share this place. If not, then go for your own room...just realize that with over 100 forums here now, it might get a little lonely. I know I never make it to half to the ones I'd like to these days...

Just my 2 cents guys :hi:

[Pallas180]

20. ANJ And how do you suggest you get professional astrologers

to come back and contribute on a daily basis to the weird and way out thread ? Astrologers have spent the last 35 years actively and aggressively disassociating themselves from the types of things posted in what is euphemistically called "Astrology" here.

"If they don't get a lot of posts & replies, take that as a clue."

That doesnn't sound very pleasant Notorious Bohemian. In fact, it sounds threatening.

I think your choice is to go along with starting an "Astrology Only"
thread or having no or minimal astrology....and I suspect that's just fine with you.

[Desertrose]

21. Uhmm...Desertrose here Pallas, not ANJ...

Have you read the mission statement of this forum??

Edited on Mon Nov-15-04 10:36 AM by Skinner

This Group is for those who wish to positively explore issues having to do with Astrology, metaphysics & spirituality, homeopathy/alternative medicine and healing, Ascension, and other subjects having to do with holistic physical and spiritual growth & traditions.


It is not exclusively ASTROLOGY you know. Never was. Did that stop any astrologer from coming here before??
"If they don't get a lot of posts & replies, take that as a clue."

That doesnn't sound very pleasant Notorious Bohemian. In fact, it sounds threatening.

Oh please, its no threat for heaven's sake. It was a simple statement...if people aren't posting on something, don't you usually wonder why as in give me a clue?

This forum is a mix...and it has been from day one.

It seems to me that suddenly some don't like the posts from various spiritual/metaphysical sources. As I said- then just don't read them . This place has gotten NO wierder or more farther out than it has since the Meeting room days or the first days here.

I thought this was a place for openminded folks to discuss and share whatever they felt called to do.

It has never been just the astrology forum..as mentioned before there are PLENTY of really good astro sites on the net that anyone can go to if they choose.

And excuse me, but if there are any control issues here, perhaps those who brought that thought up should look a bit closer to home before projecting it on anyone else here.

"I think your choice is to go along with starting an "Astrology Only"
thread or having no or minimal astrology....and I suspect that's just fine with you."

I honestly don't understand your last sentence. I am quite pleased to have astrology threads here....I and many others enjoy and learn by reading them...what is your beef?

again...just 2cents more
DR

[Pallas180]

23. THE MISSION STATEMENT ABSOLUTELY HAS BEEN CHANGED FROM WHAT IT WAS

This Group is for those who wish to positively explore issues having to do with Astrology, metaphysics & spirituality, homeopathy/alternative medicine and healing, Ascension, and other subjects having to do with holistic physical and spiritual growth & traditions.


there was never Ascension included in this in the beginning nor the following sentences in the beginning. It was just Astrology Metaphysics and Spirituality,and then added alternative medicine and healing which Skinner did not want.

This site has gone far afield from what it was purported to be when it was started.

IMHO much of it is so far out that it's wacko.

It's an embarrassment and unprofessional for those who are professional.

"just my two cents"

bye bye :hi:

[Desertrose]

24. Exact same mission statement since day1, except when we lost "metaphysics"

when Skinner edited it 3 days later.

Started Nov-12-04
Edited on Mon Nov-15-04 10:36 AM by Skinner


There were no changes to the mission statement after the first three days of its existence- beyond Skinner removing the word "metaphysics" after the skeptics freaked. So now you are telling me this has been fine for all but 7 months but suddenly it is all wacko and embarrassing? Have you not been posting here all this time? Has it been that bad for you?

This forum never ever purported to be a **professional** astrology site. I seem to recall having this discussion before.....obviously it was not resolved to the satisfaction of everyone.

I'm truly sorry that you feel it is such an embarassment . I see it as an eclectic place where folks can discuss and learn about a variety of things not normally found on a political website. There is always the hide option. IMHO, it is unrealistic to be able to control everything that folks post. Some things interest some people but not others....that's life :shrug:


peace
DR

FWIW I would hate to have the astrologers leave...I think we have a nice mix:)

[Name removed]

62. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[DemExpat]

22. That is DR's post you are responding to.....

:shrug:

BTW - we ARE extremely lucky to have this Group here - and without skeptic interference too! I count my blessings, because it would not take much for there to be NO room here for these topics IMO.

I don't see why Astrologists can't keep threads going that interest them here. And all of us "tasters at the banquet" enjoy them all.

I don't think that scorning all of the other topics here is gracious either, but that's just my 2 cents.

:hi:

DemEx

[Pallas180]

25. To choose not to be linked and associated with the wacko is

not scorn, it's self preservation for all the work and money that has been spent by astrological associations in hiring lawyers to separate the science from fortune telling and that which is considered off the wall wacko and lunatical.

Subjects astrologers dont want to be associated with.

And for your information, I requested this room at the same time as you did and was told online by a couple of you essentially to back off because you were requesting it also.

Had I known at the time what you would turn it into...I certainly would have gone on demanding a separate group for Astrology.

There are interesting topics, but they dont belong lumped in with astrology.

Channelling is not astrology.

Seed people and aliens is not astrology.

Ascension whatever the hell that is, is not astrology.

Suppoprt groups are not astrology.

Hey, that's alright.

I dont need to participate . You are absolutely correct in that.

[Desertrose]

27. just curious...

are you speaking for yourself or all astrologers?

I have a feeling there may be as many open to some of these things as there are who feel as you do.

As for being told to back off. I recall that many of us went back & forth about a separate place for astrology. We weren't sure at that time if there would be enough interest to warrant a separate forum...we also were in doubt of the future of our former hom e-the Meeting Room.. Plus we just mostly wanted a place free from the flame wars with those who do not see astrology as a profession or science. It was also right after the election and I think we were all in a state of shock.

If you want a separate and "pure" Astro forum then I say by all means go for it.

Get your ten people and ask Skinner. Kind of a bummer we can't get along. I feel like I am fighting with the skeptics again just to be able to post and discuss things I feel are of value and pertinent to me....I like this space ...I like the variety of things posted here.

I think it'd be a shame to take anything away...but hey :shrug: whatever people want. I'm just along for the ride.
:popcorn:

[Name removed]

29. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Pallas180]

31. Desertrose, I will answer you again. It was improvident of you

to have my post removed.

You asked

"are you speaking for yourself or all astrologers?"

You apparently are not a member of any astrological organization.

For a number of years Astrolocgical associations have been suing cities and others who have tried to illegitimize the scince of astrology and lump it in with fortune telling.

If you google " Lawauits and astrology" or astrologers suing" I'm sure you will find a number of lawsuits paid for be various astrological associations.

And I will put this another way. It is very impolite of you and
most unspiriutal to attempt to demonize me by attacking me personally when you as above said "are you speaking for yourself or all astrologers?"

All in all, the entirety of your answers and posts above have been very disappointing.

[Desertrose]

33. It wasn't me Pallas.....wasn't even home.

I had no idea whose post it was as I was out running errands with my daughter. When I came back she pointed out to me that a post had been deleted.


All I was asking is if you were speaking just for you or other astrologers who post here. A simple straightforward question I thought. I wasn't being snarky- just curious. I was wondering if you knew how they felt. Certainly not an attack or an attempt to demonize you in any way. Why would I do that?

I am sorry if you find my posts disappointing, unspiritual and impolite. (Quite a judgement on your part I'd say) Certainly not my intention to cause any of those things . I am just trying to get to the truth and to resolve things that seem to be causing problems here if at all possible.

It appears that is not going to happen today.

[Eloriel]

63. There've been no attacks at all by DR --

In fact, I believe she's about constitutionally incapable of attacking someone else with that maddening (to me sometimes) Libra Asc of hers.

And I am all the more convinced that yes, you and your professional-membership-self -- and whoever else wants to join you -- should indeed go elsewhere. This high handedness and false sense of suepriority has no place here, IMO.

Be well, God bless, and have fun. :hi: BYE!!!

[magnolia]

77. Pallas....

...with all due respect. If I were a medical doctor and I wanted to only speak about serious medicine with other doctors I would not go to a site called DEMOCRATIC UNDERGROUND!

We are democrats first, so by nature we are all wackos! Seriously...we are here to help advance the democratic political agenda...the rest is friendship, sharing information, discussing mutual interests and entertainment.

Go to the cooking group. Guess what, Emeril doesn't post there. It is not made up of professional chefs discussing gourmet meals. Some are gourmet, others discuss various ways to cook ramen noodles. And nobody complains or resorts to name-calling.

The gardening group is not made up of Ph.D. Horticulturist and Botanist, for God sake!!! It's people interested in gardening and if there happens to be a professional in the group, then all the better.

Should we divide all groups into 1)the so-called professionals and
2)those who are merely interested?

Hope you had a great vacation...you needed it!

[Pallas180]

26. Dem Ex Pat

Dem Ex Pat,

If you are the moderator for this room, I request you remove all the
subjects on Astrology which have been started by me and under my name
Pallas 180 on the current page.

Thank you,.

[DemExpat]

28. I am no longer Moderator here, Pallas....

and poster's requests for removals are not usually granted unless the posts/threads are breaking a DU rule.

:hi:

DemEx

[Pathwalker]

44. Pallas, I am NOT Desertrose, and I find your comments

very offensive, especially since you seem to think you know how I feel about so many things, like: "I think your choice is to go along with starting an "Astrology Only" thread, or having no or minimal astrology... and I suspect that's just fine with you."
WRONG! WRONG! WRONG!
For the record, I am AGAINST taking Astrology out of this forum, okay? I have greatly enjoyed the Astrology threads here; they have given me hope that THERE IS HOPE for the future of this nation. I have learned an ENORMOUS amount of Astrology here; so much so that I began purchasing new Astrology books - just to learn MORE. This place re-sparked my interest in Astrology, as well as Alternative Healing.

Frankly, I feel personally devastated by this turn of events, mostly because my own personal life has been in total upheaval lately. My youngest son recently broke his left leg - badly, so I am now taking care of him, and will be for at least another month, depending on whether or not he will require more surgeries in the future. After what happened to my husband with his broken leg - I am extremely worried. We had to get a hospital bed, so now my couches are in my kitchen - not a happy camper about that. Plus, there's been FIFTEEN crashes at the corner near my house in the last month, and they all have knocked out power here repeatedly, so my ability to even get on line is spotty at best.

Coming to this forum is a REFUGE for me, so to find it blowing up in our faces is..NOT FINE WITH ME. But that is my PERSONAL opinion, and I am just ONE of MANY here, so it is not my decision to make. All I ask is that if someone "suspects" they know what I think, or how I feel...try ASKING me - I'm not shy about expressing my opinion - am I?
So, for the record: I love the Astrology threads - I would love MORE of them - LOTS, and LOTS of them. I hope that's clear, and I hope the power here stays on long enough to see what finally happens here!

Notorious Bohemian AKA: ANJ! NOT Desertrose!

[Pallas180]

30. 28 ERL, let me know where you'll be. I'll be happy to join you for some

real astrology discussions.

Maybe we can revive the astrologers who have left.

Thanks

[anitar1]

36. Pallas, I have lurked here for sometime.

Astrology is my main love. For the last few weeks I have noticed the astrologers dropping away. I do enjoy some of the other info in this forum and especially appreciate Dover's contributions. I am so sorry this has happened.Your posts are always excellent as are Nancy's and many others. I did suspect the reason the astrologers were dropping away. Please PM me if another forum is started for astrology.I have learned much more here reading posts.I would still visit this forum but would also appreciate a serious forum for astrology.Best of luck.

[Me.]

32. My One Cent

What attracted me to DU in the first place was the astrology threads, hopeful words in a time of blight. And while my knowledge remains rudimentary I learn from each thread. And I just plain love reading the threads. That being said, I also appreciate the other threads in this forum. Some are for me and others not. I can always tell pretty much by the title if I am interested. And, a couple have elicited a "whoa" from me. But I like the variety and the fact that the "whoa" people have a voice too. I am my own V-chip and don't read or participate in anything I don't choose to.

After all, when the charts are read, and the predictions written, what does one do to cope with the bad times on a physical level? If one of our astrologers says something is going to last for six months, and one has to get through it, some of the other threads have provided (especially those by Dover) good coping mechanisms.

Also, there is a commonality going on in this forum which many experience at the same time. When I did my power of 8 thread, I needed cash and figured others might too. What I also knew when I posted it in this forum was that there would be an accepting reception and I wouldn't be plied with the scorn I might have met with in the general population.

In a time when there is little tolerance for the likes of us in a fundie society, shouldn't we be inclusive and use our energies against those who have brought us together in a common effort?

[Pallas180]

35. ME, *I'm am astrologer, and a teacher of many of the subjects

covered here.

But the other subjects have so overtaken the entire threads that there is barely any astrology spoken here.

Count how many astrology topics are on this page, that I HAVEN"T started. And there is barely any other astrologer left to answer.

Because a few of us want a return to a thread that is astrology only,
doesn't mean that I or others won't occasionally chime in about psychic experience or tarot cards or metaphysical meaning of a health problem, or to lend an encouraging word.

Yes, there are many many many many topics. But they are not astrology. For those of us who are real honest to goodness astrologers - these threads leave us hungry - starving for astrological nourishment.

[anitar1]

37. yes, yes! Hungry is the right word for me.

i have been a student of astrology for many years and do private readings. I am always learning, as I want to give my clients as much as I can. Plus just plain curiosty about information.

[Mrs_Beastman]

38. As I said in the other post

Astrology is a science and very intricate. It does merit it's own forum.

I'm in:thumbsup:

[Nancy Waterman]

40. I am quite happy here

I like seeing the alternative healing threads and some of the other bits and pieces that show up. Some things I just ignore.

I have posted less not because of anything problematic here, but because I have been so busy. I have had many more clients in my private practice, and my kids seem to need to go the ends of the earth on a regular basis. I have also started going to some Democratic meetings, trying to connect with people in the real world as well as in cyber space. By the way, I have been able to meet up with a few people from this forum over the months and that has been really wonderful. I wish we could all get together for a reunion or something.

But getting back to the subject at hand, I am sorry I have been less available, but I just don't have the same time and energy. I come as often as I can. I would really prefer to keep this forum together and not push astrology away to a separate place.

I think the holisitc way of thinking applies to personal healing (alternative medicine) and to a person's inner life and karma, i.e. astrology. It also can be a way to see the political /social issues we are dealing with. The whole political/social system is linked together, and an imbalance in one area leads to an imbalance elsewhere. So I think all these subjects are linked when looked at it from a larger perspective.

[NMDemDist2]

42. thank you Nancy, I wondered how you felt about this topic

:loveya:

[Cha]

45. Maybe someone could do a chart

for the original starting point of the Astrology, Spirituality, and Alternative Healing Group and see if there are signs that this would happen?

I know when it started the Moon was VOC.

I like the idea of two different forums and I would actually haunt both of them.

[hvn_nbr_2]

39. Removing astrology would necessitate re-identifying this group

If astrology gets removed to its own forum and the word "astrology" is removed from this group's name, then something needs to be done about this group. I don't think that the name "Spirituality and Alternative Healing Group" really gets across what the group is about. Spirituality is so vague; there are several other groups that deal with spirituality, in ways and of types very different from that used here. The mission statement (or whatever that statement is called) for this group would have to change too, but just removing the word astrology from that would probably work.

[icymist]

41. I'd hate to see this group break apart. It's kind of balanced how it is.

True, there is some real strangeness posted here, but one has to be able to look past that. Is Astrology threatened by the strangeness of some of the threads and beliefs posted here? Only to the insecure. Where have all the 'true' astrologers gone? This question can be answered by looking at ourselves. Perhaps, one or two interpretations of the charts being aggressively pushed, stifles the other astrologers. Just my thoughts on the matter. Again, it would be a crying shame to break up this group.

[anitar1]

75. I think what you are seeing is that Astrologers want to talk

astrology. I do not feel threatened by anything on this forum. I do not feel insecure. That is your projection.I think that non astrologers simply do not understand the need to have serious discussions of the matter. I have seen many posts by people wanting others to "read' their charts,ect. I simply cannot go on about this, as others will not understand what I am talking about. I do not feel that astrologers feel "stifled", just no longer interested.

[Matariki]

78. you keep saying 'serious'

as if other folk's interests aren't serious. as if the astrologers (professionals only of course) are the grown ups. kind of condescending really. i actually hope you all start a new forum - it'll be a relief here. and ps - any astrologer who thinks they're better than a tarot reader or whatever just because it's 'scientific' has got serious blinders on.

[Trillo]

43. I voted yes on the separate astrology forum

after several hours of internal deliberation. I felt it was another exercise in duality where no perfect solutions were possible: as a Gemini I understand duality intuitively and am comfortable/uncomfortable with its extremities, both at the same time! I started to write at one point how I really LIKE a lot of the personalities in the Astrology, Spirituality & Alternative Healing group behind the aliases, and I deliberated with myself if anyone here who isn't an astrologer would feel slighted.

I hope that is not the case! Still, I voted for a separate group. Expressing our desires is a good thing. The administration can still say, "No," although I hope they don't. Nothing will stop any members of one DU group from visiting the other group, the only separation is one or two mouse clicks. I view the issue largely as one of helpful organization rather than exclusion.

If the group is approved, it's definitely not a farewell!

[2Design]

46. when people separate - both people are still good people

most of the time.

Having separate groups just means it is not a good match anymore.

I like the idea of separate forums.

[justsomegirl]

47. for what it's worth.

As a relative newcomer and as someone who is not privy to the history of this group, I find it sad that it appears there are some people who are not satisfied with the quality of posts, and they would rather take their toys and go home than actually start posting threads that are more astrological-related. I have to say, to my ears, this sounds as if some old-timers are upset with the 'rabble' who have been "spoiling" the perceived purity of the board.

I can appreciate that others would prefer a more narrow categorization, but I for one, find that if there is something that I'm not interested in, I dont read it.

You want to see more astrological posts, then post them. Why be elitist about it? I have to imagine that there are others who may have come to this group for the "spirituality" title and have found themselves learning about astrology as a result of the wisdom of many of you. I know I have.

I would be disappointed by the segregation, personally.

just my .02

[Eloriel]

64. No, precisely TWO old-timers

:evilgrin:

Otherwise an excellent post.

[Pallas180]

48. Let us look at it from a different perspective - suppose

I only speak Chinese.

And a lot of other people in the forum speak Chinese, so I have things in common and the ability to converse with them.

Then some people come who only speak Urdu, and then some others who only speak Hindu - but there are similarities in their languages and they still converse.

Then some people come who only speak Russian. And then others who speak Russian and German so they can still converse.

But one by one all the people who spoke Chinese left because there was hardly any Chinese discourse in the room, and hardly any Chinese subjects being spoken about which were of interest to the couple of Chinese speaking.

So they stopped coming to the room because there just wasn't enough discourse in Chinese there for them.

For me, that's the situation, and I want to go where Chinese/Astrology is spoken in the main. And apparently at least 24 other Chinese speaking people and students of Chinese feel the same way...names you have not seen post in this room for a long time or who hardly post.

It's sad that some would deny the freedom and enjoyment of the Chinese/Astrology speaking people to their own room and even wish them not to have their own room.

[Pallas180]

49. Long before Nov 04 when the "catch all" forum was formed, Astrology in the

Meeting room (which was mostly Political & Mundane Astrology) looked like this in October 03:

Is This The End of The Boy King ?

Gandering at W. Bush's chart: transiting Pluto at 18 Sag in his 5th house and conjunct his SOUTH NODE is opposing his natal Uranus in the 11th. (Heh heh heh. )

His ideology, his ideas of "governance" HIS GOVERNMENT is beginning to crumble...and all of Humpty Dumpty's men aren't going to put it together again, because the boob is isolating himself and the rethuglicans are turning on him (or running as fast as they can, tsk-tsk ) The aloneness of it all when his friends have become his enemies as Uranus transits his 7th house.

Here's the Good News - for us, but not for Junior. Pluto transiting to his South Node is there from now to December and opposes his natal Uranus. This transit occurs in Junior's 5th house which is the 4th house of end of matters to his second house of money and finances. (Heh heh heh. What? You say Congress has woken up to Halliburton's being awarded no-bid contracts in Iraq?)

What does it mean? Well, Pluto is the investigator, the revealer of what is deep and hidden and on Junior's South Node the discoverer of his secrets - in this case it's going to be financial secrets of his and his administration, and an END is going to be put to that underhanded financial wheeling and dealing and cronyism.

In the US chart, at the same time, Transiting Pluto in the 7th house sextiles the US Natal 18 Aquarian Moon in the 10th house of the Gemini rising chart. The sextile to the Moon indicates the public is going to begin to understand that some skullduggery has been going on. But the stars tell us there's more to come. Karma can be so delicious! Pluto and the Moon form a YOD to the midpoint of the US natal Sun and Mercury. Mercury rules the Ascendant in the Gemini Rising US chart. The Ascendant in a mundane chart is "The People" of the country. The Sun rules the US 4th house of "home and end of matters". A YOD brings about a "forced adjustment"and since Mercury in the third house of our country's Communications and Media is involved in this YOD, we can expect a change (end) in the way the media has been covering up and censoring news about the boy wonder. Why? Because at the same time the Yod is activated, Saturn is also going to be on the "boy king's" Sun and the U.S. Sun. His power will be diminshed. Thank the Heavens and YODs for big blessings.

As Jupiter transited 18 Leo this past summer, a sensitized point because of stations and eclipses, and comes to the opposition of the U.S. Moon in Aquarius in the 10th, the American public will be in the mood for a CHANGE, a BIG change and an end to the financial/economic shenanigans foisted upon them by this administration. Transiting Jupiter hit opposite the U.S. Moon at the end of June and very beginning of July. Once the momentum has begun, the booby's travails will continue.

Transiting Pluto, never one to be pushed or hurried, is not moving off the boy king's South Node and opposing Uranus during the entire next six months.

Those investigations and revelations will be worse than a Chinese water torture for him. Revelation after revelation. ( Well he is the religious one, he should enjoy revelation, but these revelations he won't.)

By November 2003 it may be a race as to whether he will be able to start another war before legal actions are taken against him, but he would be ill-advised to do so, with a grand square containing Transiting Mars squaring Transiting Pluto on his natal South Node squaring transiting Jupiter squaring his natal Uranus. Boy Wonder is going to be on a spending spree again, or try to be, and Congress and the people are going to be as mad as a hornet's nest with
transiting Mars in the 11th house of Congress in the U.S. chart squaring the natal U.S. Mars/Uranus rising. Talk about poking a stick in Congress's eye!

The November eclipse will quincunx Dumbya's Sun while it is being transited by Saturn. He's going to have to make a lot of adjustments because stamping his foot and threatening, "You're either with me or agin me" just isn't going to work anymore.

At the Nov 23 Eclipse, while this drawn out upheaval is occurring in Boy Wonder's so called "homeland", Islam's chart is being angrily activated by a square from transiting Pluto to it's natal Mars at 19 Virgo and an opposition from transiting Mars to it's natal Mars. A T square with Mars opposing Mars and both squaring Pluto. The eclipse point itself at 1 Sag will square Islam's natal Uranus of uprising. By December transiting Jupiter will conjoin Islam's natal Mars in Virgo squaring transiting Pluto.

Boy Wonder's natal Uranus upsets and activates Islam's Warrior anger and as Resident-Select Boy Wonder's Natal Uranus at 19 Gemini fills in Islam's T square and makes it a Grand Square of Mars, Pluto, Mars and Uranus energies.

There is nothing pleasant about Mars, Pluto, Uranus energies between countries or leaders of countries.

I ask you, is this the person who has any capacity to make peace in the Middle East?

By December transiting Jupiter will exactly square the Boy King's natal South Node conjunct transiting Pluto and all that has been hidden will come gushing out.

The problem is, can Congress displace the Boy Wonder before Islam
displaces us?

Note: I have relocated Dubya's chart to DC using the New Haven birthtime but the DC long and lat. and that is the chart I use while he "resident". I use the Gemini rising chart for the U.S. as many astrologers do while many others use the Sag rising chart, so of course there are some differences in relation to Asc, Moon and so on.

Comments
Pallas18, I've been reading your stuff on DU for awhile now and you are extremely talented and knowledgeable. I love the "Revelation after revelation," something I believe we all have been waiting for. I'm wondering if those on the inside will "do him in" before his name is pure mud. Thanks for posting on this site! It's the best!
_________________

We Chinese/Astrologers would like to get back to that kind of room filled with that kind of discourse, which is homey for astrologers, and either of interest or no interest to non astrologers.

[Desertrose]

50. No one is stopping you from doing that

There has been a place provided to speak "Chinese astrology"...people are not speaking it and yet the "Russian & German" speakers continue their conversations.

Suddenly the "Chinese astrology" speakers want their own room because not enough of them come to the room already provided to speak their chinese astrology.

I'm sorry...I don't see the logic in your allegory but I hope you get your place to speak what you choose. I thought you already had that. In fact I thought we all had that but apparently I was wrong.

You want a place that is all yours and everyone is talking about what you (all) want to talk about. I think its great. I hope it works out.

Then perhaps everyone will feel more comfortable. But if Skinner does not grant it to you, we will still have to somehow share & get along in the room we have been given.

What then?

[Pallas180]

51. There's no one to talk astrology with in this forum anymore - and its no

fun talking to yourself.

Count the astrology posts. Most, I think 6 out of 8 have been posted by me. Discourse gets the energy flowing and thinking.
People who speak the language of astrology see something else that
the first astrologer hasn't seen and start conversing on that. Light
bulbs go off. 35 years in astrology and I can still learn something new IF other astrologers are there to converse.

They aren't.

Go look at the people, astrologers and students of astrology who have signed up for an astrology only room.

When was the last time you saw most of those names post in this forum? They haven't.

Nancy posts her column occasionally.
Spiral Hawk posts rarely.
I post subjects, Mundane and political and there is no one to answer.

The astrologers have left. Not Nancy, SH, and me - but all the others.

Here is just not "here" for astrologers anymore.

And frankly the only thread I found interesting in this forum was
Eloriel's Feng Sui. Otherwise, frankly, the forum is boring for me.

Astrology is a prime directive in my life. It is not so in the current forum.

I dont understand the carrying on and need to control and hold onto the astrologers . But this forum has lost the majority of them long ago...you just didn't care or notice.

I've tried my best to keep it alive in this forum...to no avail, so when 28 ERL feels the same way I do, and the other astrologers and students who have left show up for an astrology only forum, you have to admit, there must have been something gone awry in the current forum.

It's over..and there's nothing else to say. The complaining and accusing and bitching at the astrologers is ridiculous.

The last two or three want to go away and suddenly you all notice.
Pshaw.

[Pathwalker]

52. Can you do a chart then to determine the best time to

start the new forum in such a way that it would be of the greatest benefit for both forums? This would help avoid future problems?

[Pallas180]

53. The charts have been done. They show exactly what is happening

popularity for an astrology only forum and 7th house fighting against it.

I just dont understand you people. Not one of you has thanked me for
my efforts in trying to keep astrology alive here...but have been pretty g-damned ready to attack me.

You think that makes any want to stay?

And I just love all the " I hope Skinner turns it down".

You've put yourselves in a lose - lose position and created hard feelings.

Boy, some spiritual room this is.

Pshaw.

[Pathwalker]

54. Excuse me, Pallas. Where did I say I hope Skinner

turns you down? I ask that a chart be done so that it could HELP everyone - I don't see that as an attack. I have not attacked you, I simply asked questions.

[Pallas180]

68. Not you Notorious Bohemian. Another, who has exposed

herself. Long time nemesis...so no need to address it further.

[Pallas180]

55. And PS - one of the best things on this site was Divine Order's

astrology teaching.....which a couple of you, as usual, tried to control and scare her off.

Hellooooo? Astrologers are Uranian. They dont like to be controlled.

She kept at it...bless her....and it sank like a stone...very little response.

That's either no interest or no astrologers/students' interest.

If we get a room, we'll be sure to invite Divine Order to teach there, without telling her she has to wait for so and so who said they were going to do it (but didn't) and if people know its astrology only they may just show up to learn.

But the room will be astrology only. Channeling, psychic, tarot cards, numerology, dreams, complaints, demands, alien seed people
are not astrology. And frankly some of the stuff and advice given here by non professionals is pretty damn scary.

I leave you to it.

[Pathwalker]

57. Actually, I suggested she go for it, Pallas.

And 74 replies hardly showed a lack of interest, people were actually quite excited about it.
Link: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=245&topic_id=5205

I also had a thread about Astrological Symbolism and its importance - guess you missed it. I chose not to start another thread because I didn't want to step on her toes - she ran with the ball, and quite well, so I saw no reason at the time for me to duplicate her efforts. Now, I see that was a problem. You're painting me with accusations I don't feel are deserved, blaming me for other people's words, and that is unfair. I'm in no way arguing that you shouldn't do this; I was simply asking that it be done in a way that would help us all. Sorry that offends you.

[Name removed]

66. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Desertrose]

56. complaining, accusing and bitching at the astrologers?

I was called wacky wierd far out & into cultish stuff by you. How do you see that as picking on you?

Nevermind...doesn't matter.

I sincerely hope the astrologers get the pure astrology forum they want and that we both benefit. I'm so sorry you were bored in the current forum.

Peace
DR

[Pallas180]

69. Actually, Desertrose, that's incorrect

if what you are referring to is this:

Pallas180 (1000+ posts) Sat Jun-25-05 02:32 PM
Response to Original message
8. Desertrose
“In preparation for personal and planetary ascension, karmic lessons have been presented in concentrated and accelerated form, and this requires that some people create conditions that cause suffering for a multitude of others. Again, this is purposeful—it allows souls to fill the gaps in third density lifetimes and attain the balanced experiencing that simultaneously readies you to accompany Earth and contributes to her karmic fulfillment. So although it may appear that your world is in terrible shape and worsening, this is the end of the dominance of darkness as all that it comprises is coming to light. Because you don’t know others’ soul contracts, you cannot know what strategic role someone may be playing in this crucial balancing act, and therefore you are asked not to judge any. "

Something in these words, especially the first sentence, flashed to me that group that committed suicide because they thought the comet Hale Bopp, i.e. aliens, was going to transport them to the new world. There's a very Jim Jones, cutlish flavor to these passages and I don't think it's good.

I'm wondering if whoever is getting these messages is asking when spirit appears or messages: If you are from good and God you can stay, if not I command you to go! (said with fervor).

I'm sorry if this offends, but just something not feeling right here, at all.


robertarctor (470 posts) Sat Jun-25-05 07:32 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. I agree, Pallas. Channeled rubbish.
Not a whole lot of difference there, aside from the new-age flavoring, from the old "put up with misery in this life, because your reward in heaven will be glorious" rubbish emanating from the usual heirarchic-religion suspects.

And I picked up on the Heaven's Gate vibe, too. Don't drink the Kool-Aid, kids.
_______________________________________________________________

Nowhere in the posts above is any of what you said Desertrose.
Not from me, anyway.

[Trillo]

70. Pallas180. Thank You for your astrology threads here!

I've primarily been a reader rather than a contributor over the last year, although being sometimes fickle, I reserve the right to change my mind at any time :) I used to post more about astrology back when it was in The Meeting Room.

I think maybe some of the agent provocateurs there wore me down as I parried with them. When I determined one of them was not a person who truly believed the position they espoused, I realized I had been having my precious time wasted by a particular alias who deliberately projected a false mask. My bubble slowly deflated as the realization dawned.

I'm a "Student of Astrology." I'm not an astrologer in the "tested and approved" sense of the word as, for example, the National Council for Geocosmic Research (NCGR) would define it.

I remember several months back, maybe six months, a DU heavy came to this forum with some personal relationship questions. This was the first time in awhile I got the chart software out and looked it over for about an hour or more. I thought of the problem asked occasionally over several days. My mind was a blank, astrologically. I felt I couldn't contribute anything constructive (positive) to the questions asked that hadn't already been said. So, I remained quiet. Now, I just had an out-of-the-box idea related to it, but where the heck is the thread? Long since buried.

(I have had nothing but frustration with DU's search feature, and I do still have a star by my alias. I'd prefer to use Google, but these forums aren't well indexed by them, only the title of a thread is, as of yesterday.)

Another reason I haven't been particularly active here lately is that over the course of the last year I've learned a LOT about installing blogs on servers, altering the templates, working with CSS instead of tables, etc. For me, it's really hard and time consuming, requires brain-melting concentration because I'm not a programmer or computer language scriptor, (I guess I'm more of a power user) and this has subtracted from available time to contemplate the cosmos and the positions of planetary bodies.

I also help with a micro-publishing company, (a single paper book and an ebook) that while it's a financial disaster, I plug away with tasks related to it on a daily basis. I haven't been thinking about astrology much, but I do read threads here when I have the time to visit. My time is spread very thin.

Speaking of astrology forum limitations, besides the search issues mentioned above, uploading of self-generated astrology charts is a problem here that can be resolved if the posting astrologer can find a site to host image files for free, or they have access to a Internet server with enough hard-drive space to host all the images the astrologer wants to use. That requires a small learning curve (welcome to computers!) for some astrologers to take advantage of.

I web-novice a blog and a couple other sites, and do have this capability, but I pay money every month for the space and as yet haven't branched out into astrology there.

Now my partner wants to try to sell the house and move. Fine. Where's the time to do so?

[emcguffie]

65. I like to read about astrology --

But I would never dream of posting about it. There are probably more folks like me than you know. Maybe?

Anyway, I am disappointed when I cannot find anything new on astrology here. I guess I should make that known, so you guys don't feel like there's nobody here? Or, I guess that wouldn't make any difference, since I am not qualified to discuss it and could not make any contribution to your discussions.

I missed the instruction altogether. Gee whiz. I am sad.

[Eloriel]

67. You could always ask questions, or just kick threads

You have no idea how helpful and what a huge contribution asking questions is. Or at least that's what I learned when I used to moderate a Feng Shui discussion on AOL a good number of years ago. Those questions were life blood. Some here -- the professional astrologers, don't you know -- might not agree. :shrug:

[Nancy Waterman]

71. Asking questions is very productive

I often will read a thread and not respond because there are no questions or it is not something I have much to say on. And I am not much into butting in when strong opinions have been stated that leave little room for discussion.

[NMDemDist2]

72. I have felt that way too Nancy, I enjoy reading your website but

some of the astrology goes right over my head. I am hesitant to ask questions since I have been told on several occasions to "Do your own research and learn astrology"

Never by you Nancy, but if I wanted to be an astrologer, I'd have started years ago. It does make it hard to appreciate some of the threads in here and it's part of why I enjoy your posts so much. You take all the scientific stuff out and tell me what it means in real life!

Thanks for all your contributions and I hope you'll continue to post here when you put up a new article.

[Nancy Waterman]

73. AZDem - I would really encourage you to ask if you don't understand

I have never refused to answer a specific question and I think answering questions leads to some interesting discussion. I can see where things could get very confusing very quickly. I often forget to explain fully how I get to my conclusions.

What I usually don't answer are the personal horscope questions because that can lead to everyone wanting a reading, which would be overwhelming. And unless it is a dire emergency (which I sometimes do answer) I think we should stay on topic.

[NMDemDist2]

74. agreed, and let me re-state you have always been wonderful about

answering questions and taking the "technicality" out of it.

"Saturn square Mars" (or whatever) makes no sense to me, but "Communication problems and lost messages" makes perfect sense :)

[emcguffie]

76. You know, I was afraid to --

Because I didn't want to "take advantage" of the professional astrologers.

You know what I mean?

I know quite a bit -- although it's been a long time since I focused on it -- but don't have any innate ability to put it together and INTERPRET. Too bad. I can spot aspects and problems, but advice? Nada.

I love Liz Greene.

[jen4clark]

79. Oh thanks emcguffie!

You've expressed my thoughts exactly! As one who doesn't post much at DU I didn't feel comfortable expressing how I felt about this. You just nailed it!