need advice on how to handle situation

[northernlights]

My school apparently has the only MLT program in the country that requires a course in "oral communications;" either public speaking or group communications. They don't let *anybody* out of it. I have 20 years experience in marketing communications, working with cross-functional organizations, leading work teams, working as a team member, writing presentations delivered by executives to customers, etc. Not good enough. Another student already has a BS in linquistics -- not good enough. Bleah.

Well, I'm sorry but this course is pure bull. The syllabus doesn't give us a clue of its goals, purpose, what we will learn or on what sort of knowledge (or skills?) will be graded (other than a series of quizes, papers, a test, etc).

First class, I get the impressions the teacher has taken an immediate dislike to me. Not good. I double-down the next week, clamp down on my eagerness and try to be super-sensitive in my responses. We will be graded on participation, but I must be careful not to overdo. So I hold back. Things look up by 2nd and 3rd week.

We alternate each week with a quiz and a "response paper." So for the first paper, other than a topic, we got zero directions beyond 1 page. Getting as much direction as "double-spaced" was like pulling teeth. So we write the paper and get it back the next week. Mine has a # on it and 2 check marks. Other people got the same. No feedback. Zilch. 15 minutes into the class discussion, teacher starts going on about how important feedback is to communications. (I turn and look at the student next to me who was complaining about no feedback during break. We jointly roll our eyes...)

So I send an email to teacher, very careful to be as "self-effacing" as possible so as not to possibly offend or be seen as critical. paraphrasing: "I'm feeling a little lost here. Never wrote a "position paper" before, so not sure what she was expecting and or what grade is based on. Not a lot of direction to start with; I'm used to science lab reports where we get very specific directions. Also marcom, where expectations, audience, purpose, etc. were very clear. I also was a little surprised at lack of specific feedback. Not sure how I can improve without specific feedback. Overheard others express the same concerns. Would be grateful for any help."

The response was not real helpful, to say the least. First, she corrected me -- it's a "response" paper, not a "Position" paper. Oh, well. That makes a BIG difference. :eyes: Then explains that lab reports are "just observations" whereas a response paper requires critical thought, analysis and interpretation. (Personally, I beg to differ. If she wants to diss what scientists do, well, that's her problem. I'll remember that if I'm ever analyzing and interpreting the results of *her* lab tests, lol).

But here is the kicker. The specific feedback is the class discussion, and her checkmarks are where she's noted points made.

Well, she missed half my points. And I made *every* point that came up in the class discussion, plus one that nobody else thought of *except* me. So how the eff does that qualify for only a 3 out of 4 points. Which, by the way, is 75%, or a "D?"

Criminies. At age 10, my teacher wanted to submit my poetry for publication. I was an A or B student in every college level writing class I took, including creative writing, tech writing, and tech editing. These were, by the way, pretty good schools. At age 20 I had a nationally recognized poet ask me to help her with a poem she was working on. I rose to nearly the top of my field in marcom, with a 6-figure income that was about to double when the tech crash came. And now I'm getting "Ds" from a big fish at a community college in a teeny, rural village. Great.

And then came tonight. I'm still *really* upset. We were split into little groups, directed to discuss our experiences working with a specific age group. I started to say something to my group. She interrupted me from the front of the room and told me to stop being judgemental, we are just supposed to describe experiences not judge them. So I started to describe the experience and she interrupted me again and this time told me to stop being negative. She didn't do this to *anybody* else in the room -- just me. Just kept saying that I was doing it wrong in an unfriendly voice, interrupting me *every* time I spoke. I ended up so frustrated I stopped speaking altogether. And when it came time to report our take on our group's discussion, I sat in silence. There was a long, awkward silence, and then finally I said my last job had been with several people that age, including my boss and her boss, and that I'd commit suicide before I'd ever work with that age group again. The class laughed. She got flustered and told me that I would have to be able to work with all age groups. I repeated that no I wouldn't because I would commit suicide first. The class laughed again. Then she told me in that case I was really limiting my work options. And I said, "They poisoned me. I don't know how to describe being poisoned in a positive way." So then she went off on how I can't judge an entire group by them.

Well excuse me, but she FUCKING INSTRUCTED US TO DESCRIBE OUR EXPERIENCE. AND THAT WAS MY FUCKING EXPERIENCE. I didn't say this. I just shut up and gave up.

After class, in the ladies room, I got into a conversation with a classmate. She was sitting on the other side of the room so didn't overhear much of what had happened. The first thing she said was, "But that was what we were SUPPOSED to be doing!!" That's what I thought too. We were supposed to describe our experience. Not change it or make it up to fit expectations. Describe it. I'm sorry that being called names, taunted, and poisoned sounds negative. I don't know how to describe them in a positive light.

I said I wasn't going to participate any more. She asked me to not do that, because she really enjoyed my stories.

Then she suggested I have a talk with the teacher. She is right that I can't let this continue. But I am now afraid of the repurcussions. I suspect that her behavior toward me tonight was do to my email to her last week. I don't expect communications to improve in person since she interrupted and talked over me EVERY time I tried to speak. The only way she will let me finish a sentence is in a shouting match, which won't help.

This totally sucks. I've invested 10s of thousands of dollars and worked my ass off maintaining a 4.0 because I don't have connections, I'm not a native, and the only thing left for the selection process is my GPA. And this bitch is deliberately ruining it...I honestly don't know what to do.

[Silver Gaia]

1. I can hear your frustration.

I'm assuming that it's too late now to drop the class. :( It does sound like she may have been reacting negatively to your email. Perhaps she misinterpreted your intention. In that case, being face-to-face (with accompanying body language) may help. I think I would try a meeting with her during her office hours if you can work that out. She may be less confrontational in a one-on-one situation.

I've had some really crappy professors, too, and was also hell-bent on maintaining a high GPA for similar reasons, so can really sympathize. You can work your ass off and one bad professor can ruin the whole damn thing. I hope this doesn't sound weird, but is she much younger than you? As an 'older' student, I've had a few (very few, though) professors who were younger than me and somehow, it seemed to me, felt threatened by my age and accompanying life experience. Just a few, though. Most welcomed it.

It will most likely all work out by the end of the semester, but right now, you just need to get on some even ground with her so she doesn't ruin your GPA. It sounds pretty rocky right now, but not irreparable. I wish I could give you some better or different advice, but meeting with her really is what I would try next under such circumstances, and it seems there really aren't any other viable options, given what you've described. It's just one more flaming hoop (of many) to have to jump through. You can do it! Good luck!

[northernlights]

5. moved to down below! (no message here)

[Kind of Blue]

2. I had the same problem with a genetics teacher

and I did go to the head of the department who was a former biology professor of mine but he could do nothing for me. So I fought this teacher tooth and nail for every grade because he was fond of marking tests and lab reports incorrectly. Luckily, data is either right or wrong and hard for him to deny, but it was still awful.

The department head did ask if there were others who felt the same as me. So I'm just wondering if there is not one other in the class who may not be a target but can corroborate this person's teaching style and is also a witness to how this teacher does shut you down? It seems as though you may have some strong allies.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

3. I'd go to the department head

I did that when a professor gave me an "incomplete" in a course even though I had fulfilled every assignment--early.

I realize your case is not so clear cut, but I feel that management needs to know about this. Unless this teacher is "connected". Then maybe a one on one telling her you don't understand what she wants and could she give examples. Meanwhile, surround her with light in a visualization. Won't hurt anything, and it may well help her come around. I've done that before when I've faced someone who appeared not to like me for no known reason, and it did change their feelings from dislike to neutral.

[MorningGlow]

4. It's not you; it's her

From your post, northernlights, I can easily see what the problem is. (HEY! You must be a good writer or something to be able to describe a situation so clearly! ;) )

Okay, seriously. Does she know that you have 20 years' experience in marcom? If so, she's massively intimidated and went on the defensive the first day. Does SHE have practical experience in marcom? If not, or if she has less than you, that's where her insecurity is coming from. She's afraid she can't teach you, and she's walking on eggshells, afraid that you're going to be able to spot any mistakes she makes and expose them to the whole class.

The good news is you've got it all over her. The bad news is that she knows it, and you may never come to a decent understanding with this woman.

This happened to me twice in my life, and neither time ended well, I'm sorry to say. The first time I was an employee at a big-box chain bookstore. I had years of experience in bookstores, small and large. We got a new manager. He was a complete idiot. Had no finesse with the employees, and we had a more than 80 percent turnover in the first couple of WEEKS. The ones who stayed were organizing a mutiny. The atmosphere of the store had gone from positive to totally ugly overnight. I came across an article in a trade magazine about how bookstore employees are the most educated retail personnel around, and the best way to reach them was to ensure they were as involved as possible in the running of the store (which is how the store HAD been before he showed up), so I requested a private meeting with him and showed him the article. I was polite and friendly and respectful the entire time. HE WENT BALLISTIC. Practically threw me out of his office. From then on I was a marked woman. He followed me around. He instructed an assistant manager to follow me around when he wasn't there. He yelled at me. He insulted me in front of the other staff members. He made my life a living hell (and I was one of the best employees there).

When I quit, he was shocked (WTF?), and told the assistant managers that it was a shame, because I would have made a great corporate trainer. (The job was open but I didn't apply because I figured it was pointless if he was going to block me.)

I know we're supposed to be enlightened in this group, but honestly I still hate the man. And all that happened 15 years ago.

The other time that happened to me was at my last job as an associate editor. The editor didn't want to hire me, but the VP overrode him. His first words to me on my first day were "What are YOU doing here?" It went downhill from there. I was at that job for four years and he and I NEVER got along, even though we made a conscious effort to try to communicate better.

My point is, yes you should try to get to the bottom of what's bugging this woman, or the rest of the semester is going to be miserable. But you may not be able to--but it won't be you; it'll be her.

If you do have another meeting with her, try showing her your vulnerable side. It might make her feel better. Or try appealing to her as an equal (because she's afraid you're superior to her). You'd have to play it by ear, see what she responds to best.

Sigh. Good luck, northernlights. I know you've had it tough recently. Sending light so this situation resolves itself in a way to benefit all involved and harm none. :hug: Keep us posted, okay?

[northernlights]

6. His first words to me on my first day were "What are YOU doing here?"

:rofl:

Funny story around those words.

Way, way, way back when I was a project specialist in my 1st marcom dept., the manager of a rival marcom group was taking a few of the "big suits" on a tour of his dept.

He brought them to see their fancy, new "design workstation," which was located in their storage cubicle. They rounded the corner and found me, returning a borrowed chair to the cubicle.

"Why are YOU here?!?" he snarled.

"What's the meaning of life? How the hell should I know why I'm here?" I snapped back.

BWAHAHAHAHA!!!!! He turned absolutely purple and sputtered, "Bu..bu...bu...that's not what I meant!"

The big suits were all laughing out loud. One of them joked, "She sure got you there Bill!"

One of my few moments when the right words came out, not 2 hours later, but right at the exact moment. It remains a very happy memory! :rofl:

[MorningGlow]

8. OMG that's great!

I wish I had a comeback like that with my old editor!!
:rofl:

Since it was my first day, all I said was (with a smile) "Gee, I can head home if you want--!" which had him scrambling to protest, in case I really did go home and he'd have to explain to the VP why my office was still vacant. He was such a weenie, though--I had sent him an e-mail saying I would be starting that afternoon, after my morning orientation, and he responded to the e-mail acknowledging he'd see me then. He was youngish; no other signs of senility...! Again, WTF?!

So many people in positions of authority are so massively unqualified to be there...

[northernlights]

7. thank you, thank you, thank you!

oops! my reply up top belongs down here!


I can't tell you how helpful it is to write about issues in here, and get actual supportive and helpful feedback. What a huge relief :grouphug:

She's actually older than I am, by about 10 years or so. And yes, it's too late to drop the course.

She's totally connected within the local community. Born and raised here, and "community leader." Co-founded local uu church, etc.

I know that they are required to have grades make bell curve. I'm a middle-aged, unconnected "transplant," this is a totally subjective grading system, and she dislikes me, all of which I suspect make me an prime target to fill in the bottom of the curve.

And I also figured out a while ago that the healthcare programs here are a big screening process, and emotional and mental toughness is another way they test you.

While trying to fall asleep, I "heard" her telling somebody about the episode. And I realized that if she reports me as being emotionally unstable, that ends it right there.

But this morning I "heard" a conversation in which someone was telling her not to report it. There was a realization that an oral communications professor that pushes someone to start talking about suicide in the middle of class is as bad reflection on the professor's oral communications as it is on the student.

I also remembered that the professors here -- even the well connected ones -- are running scared right now due to the budget cuts.

She's totally not open to talking to me. One of her sideline jobs is as at the local nonprofit, doing financial and business counseling. I had already approached her to set up an appointment because I need financial advice to finish school. She blew me off with a sneer, so I never followed up -- this was during the break at the first class.

So for now, I think I'm going to give it a wait and see, and start seriously documenting *everything* that goes on in that class as backup.

I've been working on manifesting is a new life in a better climate. Well, a community college with a similar program (so my existing credits won't be wasted),low cost, and in a much better physical climate, turned up last week. I'm going to apply there this week, so my transcripts are sent off well before this grade hits my GPA, lol.

[eilen]

9. I've read this and what I'm getting is that

this chick has power/control issues. I think she wants you to kiss her ass and agree with everything she says.

I'd drop this class like a hot potato and take another with a different instructor if I wanted to preserve my GPA.

I don't think that personal conversation with her, esp. if you attempt to establish your credentials, will go well. Insincerity and flattery will probably work best with her. This is ego driven. Part of the ego thing is on your end as well, if only for defense but she clearly told you what she wanted in the exchange about age groups and you were determined not to give it to her. For some reason you threaten her or provoke her-- totally involuntarily. You may remind her of someone.

She needs a lot of shoring up -- how insightful she is, how her points were so important etc. You may have to charm her. She wants to be important and is willing to flex what power she has to bring the point home. She has typed you already so it will take work to change things. You won't learn anything in the subject of the class from her but you will learn something from her--maybe she is preparing you for some nutcase boss in your future? If you don't figure out what it is, you may keep getting this type person thrown into your life.

It would not surprise me if it is her "cred" or pull that requires this course for your program without option to test out.

If you can't drop this, just try very hard to pass. This is a prereq and you might consider it a nasty little job you have to do get through it. Sometimes it is not about being right or good at something. Having a war of wills with the instructor, no matter how nuts, is not going to make it easier.

For some reason this is making me think of the show "Ugly Betty" where the main character, who is clearly talented and competent is having a very hard time connecting with her much admired instructor played by Madeline Kahn in an editor training group. She can't figure out what she really wants and can't rely on her previous strategums of hard work, research and teacher pleasing. The instructor keeps throwing her curve balls and nonsensical assignments.

[northernlights]

10. I don't think she wants me to kiss up...

Or rather, my gut tells me that if I do, she will just come down harder...

"If you can't drop this, just try very hard to pass. This is a prereq and you might consider it a nasty little job you have to do get through it. Sometimes it is not about being right or good at something. Having a war of wills with the instructor, no matter how nuts, is not going to make it easier."

This is pretty much my bottom line. I can't drop it, it's not about being right or good at it, it's just somehow getting through without failing.

I definitely wasn't trying to get into a battle of wills...I was trying to follow her instructions, which started off clear but ended up "don't do this, don't do that" no matter *what* I did. That was why I shut down and stopped participating for most of the class.

"For some reason this is making me think of the show "Ugly Betty" where the main character, who is clearly talented and competent is having a very hard time connecting with her much admired instructor played by Madeline Kahn in an editor training group. She can't figure out what she really wants and can't rely on her previous strategums of hard work, research and teacher pleasing. The instructor keeps throwing her curve balls and nonsensical assignments."

Yup, yup and yup. And I came in really hoping to improve my communications in situations where I'm misunderstood. Maybe the life lesson is that with some people, it's not me and there's very little I can do? Because most everybody else in the class seems to understand and appreciate my input, or at least not be excessively bothered by it... except her.

Actually, when I stop participating the entire class seems to shut down. Nobody wants to go out on a limb and be first to respond to her questions. That happens in a lot of classes, which is why I tend to make that effort and speak up. Then, as other people gain courage, I try to remember to stay sensitive to that and back off so I don't dominate. Teachers used to appreciate that in me, but these days it seems once in a while I run into one that is threatened by it.

My chemistry professor was at first, but then a moment came up for us to have an informal chat (we both arrived very early to a class) and it totally changed her attitude and response to me. Now we have a really good relationship in class...she asks questions and *won't* move forward until someone answers. I wait for anyone else to answer, and if nobody antes up, I do cuz now if I don't, she turns toward me and asks the question again!

BUT, she is a very compassionate person and her masters is in science education...so she is dedicated to education.

I don't get that sense from this woman at all. Come to think of it, now she's reminding me of the new teacher in one of the latest Harry Potter books, the super sugary sweet one all dressed in pretty pink...who turns out to be a really, really evil, mean witch!

Anyway, I've just remembered what happened later in class. Apparently in response to my email, she told us to hold onto the papers that were due to help us during the discussion. Then after break, she tried to start a discussion around our papers. NOT ONE PERSON would volunteer to discuss what they'd written about. Not one. It got pretty uncomfortably funny. Maybe she'll realize that she intimidated *everybody* who witnessed how she treated me.

[Celebration]

11. Try this

I realize this may not come easily, and I can't really say if it will work or not, but what is happening now isn't working.

Try projecting love to her. I wish I had a picture of this person because it seems to me like her chakras are blocked or something. It would be interesting to check.

First make sure you are balanced, and, then through your heart chakra, project pure green light to hers--then swirl it in a clockwise direction on her heart. Think "unconditional love and gratitude" while you do this. (The clockwise means as if she has a clock on her heart, and it is facing you.) Make sure to do this every time you answer a question in class or talk to her.

Also, kiss up to her, and act very friendly. Praise her, keep her a little off balance, and keep projecting the clockwise love.

Try it with her other chakras too--yellow for solar plexus, blue for throat, lavenderish for sixth, orange for second. Intend at the same time that she feels this coming from you, as opposed to the class in general.

Edited to add: great idea for you to keep notes of what happens in class.

If this doesn't work, you *could* try the mirror thing, where any negativity projected on you bounces back to her. I don't think that will work as well. In fact that may be happening somewhat now. You are protecting yourself from her negative attitude and she is sensing that, making things worse. Try transforming her attitude into the pure light and transfering it back that way.

[northernlights]

15. initially I was simply trying to follow her instructions

and defuse the situation. But when I would try asking her "How can I present this in a positive way?" she would interrupt and talk over me. I don't even know what she said any more, because she interrupted me over and over. So then my voice got louder out of frustration, and then I just shut down and quit participating.

It seems particularly ironic that an "oral communications" professor was so unable to give respectful feedback without interrupting, yelling, being judgemental ("stop being negative!"), or offering any positive instruction ("instead of saying it that way, try saying it this way...").

Because it really was an attack. In the same way that her statement about science labs being "just observation" and not involving critical thinking, analysis and interpretation was a passive aggressive attack.

I shared this with my chemistry professor this afternoon. She also happens to be head of the biology dept, so a pretty important wheel at a university of mostly pre-med, allied health and science majors. Her voice shot up an octave at the science lab statement. She really couldn't get over that one statement, lol.

But she was grateful for the info because it turns out the school heads are in discussion right now about revamping requirements like this course. She also said based on my background, the requirement should have been waived. But I needed to have spoken to the right person, although she wouldn't say who that was.

So even though I'm suffering, some good may come of this. Heh!heh!heh! If they drop the requirement, the nutcase will be out of a job because few if any people take that course as an elective.

[Celebration]

19. I know

Some of her chakras are blocked...........or something. People that are balanced just don't act like that. It might be a fun experiment to see if you can turn her attitude around by using your intent to unblock her chakras.

Of course, that's just the way my mind works these days. It might sound like a strange idea, though.

[SheilaT]

12. Is it really too late to drop?

Or just to late to drop and get your money back?

I've observed that most colleges seem to allow a very late, sometimes up to the last two or three weeks of the semester, drop window. You just don't get any money back if you drop after the first couple of weeks. Personally, I'd be willing to drop and take the financial loss.

If it is truly too late, go to the department head. If possible, have some other students come along with you. I'm assuming they are having similar problems with this instructor and will confirm what you are saying.

Several years ago after getting all A's and B's in the coursework of a communications class I got a C as the final grade. I was so incoherent with rage about it that I could not communicate civilly with the instructor. Fortunately, I have so incredibly many semester hours to my credit that it lowered my GPA by less than .001 grade point.

And what's an MLT program? Master's in something, but what?

[northernlights]

14. it's not a masters...

it's Medical Lab Tech. Highly competitive to get into. The decision-making here will be at the end of March, so before this grade impacts my GPA.

It's too late to drop for a refund, but since it's paid for with Stafford Loans, it may impact my ability to get a loan or it may have to be paid back immediately. Money is very, very tight right now...

[SheilaT]

17. Go to the financial aid office.

They should know if dropping will impact your loans. I rather doubt that it will, and will simply result in a slightly extra (the cost of that course) debt. But the financial aid office should know.

What I'm concerned about, given what you've told us, is that you are in a lose-lose situation. She's not giving any kind of grades at this point that you could use to support that you deserve a higher grade than the one finally given. However, if the decision about the Medical Lab Tech program is made before the grade for this course comes in, then as long as you feel confident you'll pass, then don't worry about it. Once you're in the program, the grade in this course won't matter.

Sometimes college teachers become petty tyrants, and it sounds as if she may be one of those. But consulting with other students and then perhaps going to the department head may help. If you're a somewhat older student, meaning at least thirty, you also have a lot more credibility with administration. I've been taking college classes on and off my entire adult life, and I graduated from high school in 1965. For the last twenty years, I've found that I just don't get crap from the instructors. I simply behave like a middle-aged adult and they don't bother me. What happened in the class I referred to above is an extreme anomaly for me.

[Matariki]

13. You were literally poisoned by people of a certain age group at a previous job?

Sort of off topic, but you've piqued my curiosity. What happened? Did they poison your coffee or something? Scary.

I have to agree that you can't judge an entire age group by a few people's actions though.

[northernlights]

16. contaminated well

The company knew the well was contaminated -- they'd been cited and fined by OSHA. They were bringing in bottled water, but kept it upstairs. My work area was downstairs next to the kitchen.

My boss and her boss -- the owner's daughter -- watched me mixing up oj from the kitchen tap every day and never said a word. I got sick, spent several days vomiting and then a month fighting diarrhea. I thought I had an intestinal bug -- they both knew it. They never said a word.

After a month, my boss finally told me, and let me know there was bottled water upstairs. I stopped drinking water from the kitchen tap and a few days later the diarrhea stopped.

I heard later something about gases backing up, I think from the septic. Also that one of the employees still had digestive issues from it a year or two later.

And I don't blame an entire generation based on that company. But the company before also was filled with employees from that generation, and they were equally unprofessional and rude, although they never went quite that far. But that was 8 years ago, too. Pre-Bush, lol.

[crikkett]

18. maybe there's a way you can get her to laugh

I'd be sure to give her a genuine smile at the next class at the first sight of her. And then I'd keep quiet as much as possible to let others participate. My thinking is that her attitude may be: the inexperienced kids need the practice more than you. Smile (make sure it reaches your eyes) when you can and look directly at anyone who speaks. If you're in a group situation maybe you should work on drawing out the kids instead of entertaining them with your (excellent) stories.

I used to bring crosswords into classes I didn't like. In one class I decided that bringing one in would really tweak the prof so instead I wrote up a crossword as I took notes. Sure enough I got called out, but all the keywords were relevant to his lecture. It keeps me from fidgeting.

Anyway, my point: You need a distraction from your anxiety. Find a device and use it. Levity is key. Kill her with kindness. Not brown-nosing but genuine kindness. Forget about your GPA while you're in her presence, convince yourself that this lady needs help and be willing to help her, and the rest of the class.

And another thing: she's got her hackles up about you because you directly challenged her authority right at the beginning of class- and word is sure to get back to her about your complaints to other profs. My advice on this is to look at this situation as a sales job and make 'compromise' your new M.O. You must convince her that you're worth the grade you want, but only after you convince her that you're an asset to her class and not worth punishing.