I hate what has become of this forum

[Eloriel]

It's been decimated. It's driven people off, including -- almost -- me. At the very least I don't spend near the time here that I used to. I've come to this forum on occasion recently to find just 5 or 6 threads which had any activity on that day, the rest hadn't been posted to at all for longer than that.

There's just not nearly the activity and excitement here that there once upon a time was.

I was shocked and saddened when I noted the group that calls itself SOUP and the separate pagan group. In MY mind, when we formed THIS forum, the kinds of posts in those groups would've been natural for this one (and I think that's validated by the otherwise strange groups in the title of the Group, because Alternative Healing has NOTHING directly to do with astrology). But too many folks obviously didn't feel comfortable here. Wonder why?

Now there's a move to form a separate astrology forum, which could easily gut this one, since so many of the people left posting here are narrowly (and exclusively?) focused on astrology. That's not enough -- STILL they want more. Unbelievable. Just farking unbelievable.

I frankly hope Skinner says no. Or if he does say yes, perhaps the rest of us can just say: okay, close up this whole damn forum and the rest of us will go to SOUP or the Ancient Wisdom and Pagan groups. Or perhaps just back to the Meeting Room, which very well could be equally interesting these days (I'll have to check).

[Pathwalker]

1. Personally, I am distraught, Eloriel.

This place has become a sanctuary to me, and I am truly puzzled why those who want more Astrology threads are unable to start more Astrology threads. It's not as if those threads just sank without comment, it's not as if they were hounded by skeptics, it's not as if anyone tried to stop them, it's not as if they didn't recieve regular thanks for all the great info they provided, it's not as if they didn't add to everyone's understanding of Astrology - they did.

But, my life is just too busy right now, and too uncertain for me to expend a lot of energy trying to keep a group together when so many don't wish for this group to remain together. If we have to split up and rename this group I do have one suggestion, though: let's not do this during a void of course moon.

PEACE.
Notorious Bohemian aka: ANJ

[Cleita]

2. I thought the Meeting Room had been discontinued and

lo and behold it lives!!.

Since the Pagan groups are religions, I don't feel confortable there lest I tread on their toes with something they don't believe in like the existence of Hell. Since I like to explore all that is spiritual and Metaphysical knowledge, it wouldn't be a good fit for me and others who don't make a religion of it.

I think I would have posted here in this forum more in the past if I wasn't getting bad vibes here and now I know why, the astrologers thought we were wierd. Also, going back to the Meeting Room would be going back to the harangues from the sceptics who would be hijacking threads, diluting their intent and putting us on the defensive.

[Desertrose]

3. I have to admit I am pretty disappointed too.....

Since I was one of the ones waaaay back in the dim recesses of DU history to bring astrology out of the closet, (along with Gloria & Different Strokes) and was joined very shortly by others I find it very ironic that now certain DUers in this safe haven -which I also worked very hard for- want to separate themselves and have their own forum.

Maybe it is for the best , if we are made to feel uncomfortable posting in our own home, perhaps those who want their pure astrology forum should get it.


Maybe we can make this our METAPHYSICAL MEETING ROOM without all the skepti-interference.

Intolerance & prejudice suck...no matter where it comes from. I am just surprised where it comes from sometimes. I never expected it here in what I considered a more enlightened place. Goes to show ya , doesn't it?!

DR

[NMDemDist2]

20. Metaphysical Meeting Room! Brilliant!

:applause:

[Matariki]

27. I second that! n/t

[hvn_nbr_2]

4. Many forums

My spirituality is very eclectic, so I spend time here, in SOUP, in the pagan group, even in Liberal Christians.

I've been made to feel unwelcome here, so if I initiate a thread, I'm more likely to do so in SOUP even if it would more naturally fit here.

The pagan group seems to be very slow-moving, which seems a bit surprising since most (certainly not all) of the pagans I know are liberal and either Dems or independents. I expected there would be more here than there seem to be. But on the other hand, there are many pagan resources on the net and pagans probably don't feel any need to come to a political board for pagan discussions.

The Meeting Room still exists, in spite of the message at the top of that forum from Skinner that it will probably be deleted. I find it a pleasant place to go and there are some interesting and some downright weird discussions there. I think of it as a kind of decaffeinated Lounge without all the fluff and puffery and in-jokes.

I guess the title of this group suggests to me that it's the place for off-the-beaten path spiritual, new agey, holistic, and such stuff. But apparently that perception is at least part of what annoys the astrologers.

[davsand]

5. How were you made unwelcome?

I am not asking to be snide, either! :hi:

I am curious about it, because I am wondering if there is some dynamic at work here that I have been missing all the way thru. Did we create some kind of "club" or "gang" that only a select few feels comfortable with?

I've been seeing a lot of people who don't usually post in here coming out to post in recent days, and that is GOOD!! We can take this information and do a better job as forum members...

If you feel uncomfortable answering in public feel free to PM me too--ok?


Laura

[hvn_nbr_2]

11. I PM'ed you. n/t

[Desertrose]

6. I'm sorry you felt that way....

please feel free to PM me as well if you'd like and let me know what made you uncomfortable here....

I know the place has definitely changed.....


:hug:
DR

[hvn_nbr_2]

12. I PM'ed you. n/t

[Desertrose]

13. got it ...thanks....

will reply :)

[Pathwalker]

14. Sorry you don't feel welcome here. You ARE.

I don't know what happened, but I hope you'll stay. I understand the "eclectic spirituality", too, because that's been my approach. Are there any particular subjects you think would be fitting here...in the future?

[Eloriel]

16. Thank you for validating what I suspected

I've been made to feel unwelcome here,

If you feel comfortable doing so, would you PM me with some of the details?

I'm very sorry that happened, but I suspect you're not alone.

Edit: I see others have also asked. Anyway, me too, please.

[hvn_nbr_2]

18. I PM'ed you too.

I've been PM'ing instead of just posting my story because I think that posting my story might break one rule, and it would just get deleted. But since I'm getting a little tired of doing separate PMs, if anyone else asks, I'll check with the mods to see if it's okay to post it.

[Eloriel]

19. Or one of us could copy and paste to the requester in another pm

I just read it. I'm shocked -- but not surprised. Thanks very much, and I'm really sorry that happened.

[tlcandie]

7. There are a lot of things within this forum and DU itself that are no

longer what it "use to be". I've seen several people within the former forum where we posted turn into some ungoldly critical people. I'm totally dumbfounded at some things I hear/read/see coming out of some who post here as supposedly liberal, spiritual. But it isn't my place to set them in their place... that is their stuff, not mine.

Why can't we just let people be who they are? Surprised or turned off? Turn off DU and move on till you get over being surprised or upset. Don't read that person's posts. Put them on ignore. Why continuously stir the pot?

I'm very sad that the "feeling..spiritual energy" has gone. But I can pinpoint it to time and place where I saw it start the turning and it wasn't the astrologers who set that into place... at least what I saw.

If they want their own thread, then why should they not have it? Just because it's been that way forever and/or started that way doesn't necessarily mean it should stay that way, no?

It isn't working the way it is...

Besides the fact that I'm overworked, overwrought, overtired, overstressed by helping my terminally ill father who is abusive day in and day out... I do TRY to stop in to read a few things in DU when I have a spare minute.

Therefore, when I try to leave the situation by dropping into this forum and find more of the same crap that is dished out to me daily... once again I get turned off.

Honestly, I've just about stopped all but reading LBN and maybe reading the replies by a few of the readers while everything else is just garbage.

Pallas, you can be hard (sometimes someone has to be!), but I love ya and you are damned good! Dover, you are ohhhh, so inspiring!!! DR, well you know I love you girl... and there are a few others whom I do listen to within this forum, but not a lot. :+

Nothing against any of you, but those are the people I tune into this forum to hear what they have to say. If there was another astrologers thread, I would go there and come here for Dover and DR.. plain and simple.

Live and let live instead of trying to control everyone and everything...that's MY motto and I'm sticking to it!

:grouphug:

[Desertrose]

8. Great to see ya woman...

and I am sorry about things with your Dad. Its gotta be SO hard. Sending love & hugs your way.

I agree that this forum has changed. I too have beenoff a lot and I guess I didn't see it coming...or didn't want to. I think a lot of us have been trying to stay away from LBN (shudder :scared: the world is certainly in turmoil) and in turn away from posting. period.

I hope the astrologers do get their own forum. It feels as if many are supportive of that idea. I think maybe it is time to go separate ways. This group was started as it was, in order to get approval from admin so we would at least have SOMEPLACE to go to as opposed to NOTHING. Hopefully by now the admins have mellowed towards astrology & metaphysical thinkers.

It would be nice if growth has brought us to this point and not judgement and a desire to distance. Either way, it is what it is and I know all things are for the best. Maybe we will all feel a renewed sense of family in our perspective and separate homes.

Please take care of yourself and sign in when you can......(where's your other half? Back home??I hope you guys don't have to be separated for too long.)
:hug::loveya:
DR

[tlcandie]

10. Thanks to you and Cleita.. both!

Doing okay... Just tough when you want to help someone with the beautiful transition of passing over and all they want to do is be abusive and mean.

Other half is back home :/ I've been here for about 3 weeks now I THINK! Can't recall...days run together when you don't get sleep:/ Was here for one month a month before that when he was first diagnosed with lung cancer. The other half...he's very loving and supportive... woohoo! Can't ask for more...thank the Creator for such wonderful stuff :D

Additionally, I may soon be in Missouri with his mom who just experienced a mini-stroke and may be having major work done on a main neck artery to clear blockage.... the other is totally blocked already.

2006!!! The year that the walls came tumbling down for us'ns! :+ Changes.. flexibility...keeping the faith and believing that the Light will prevail over the impending darkness that tries to tighten its noose.

Again, love you all and hope everyone can move past the ugliness trying to rear its head and find some love and compromise to allow things to move to whatever form/forum it needs. Thanks for the warm thoughts/wishes/and Light sent this way!

:grouphug:

[anitar1]

23. Desert Rose, I have always enjoyed your posts,

I really do not think it is a desire to go our separate ways, as much as a desire to have a forum for serious discussion. I do not like the human desire to judge others, although we are all prone to it. I do feel both forums will be a good thing for all concerned. I do feel this is a sign of growth. Peace.

[Desertrose]

24. Thank you anitar1

Regardless of the reasons, it seems that separation is what some feel is needed to have those deeper astrological discussions.

It will be fun to see how and where the groups will go & grow from this point.

Growth is often chaotic in the beginning...like birth...but it all sorts itself out in time, as will this.

peace
to you :)
DR

[Cleita]

9. Hugs to you for looking after your father.

It's a thankless 24/7 job, I know. Most people don't know how draining it is to be a caregiver, emotionally, intellectually and physically until it's their turn.

I know I haven't participated much while taking care of my husband and even less after he died. I was very sick myself from Shingles and other problems because of the Shingles. All these things were very draining for me, and made me stay away.

I hope that all these things will resolve themselves and that we can all be supportive of each other.

:grouphug:

[emcguffie]

15. I understand your difficulty with your father --

I took care of my mom while she was dying of cancer. She died just over two years ago. And needless to say it was horrible in many ways, and okay in some ways. One of my brothers and I still have not communicated.

My mom could be difficult, and my husband hated her. And she could definitely go after him. So it was a very difficult situation.

Then one of my brothers came to visit, and his wife -- a reborn reborn charismatic Catholic -- wanted to pack my mother up in their van and drive her two or three days back to Arkansas, while my mom was dying with bone cancer. And she wanted to do that while I was at work.

It was all very weird and hard.

When it came down to when she passed, it just "so happened" that all the other family members had other things to do -- one went into NY, one went to his hotel, the other one wasn't in town -- my daughter was in school, my husband went out -- and that's when she died. WHen I was there alone with her. With some Hildegard von Bingham (if I spelled that correctly) playing. Something like -- somethnig to do with the breath of God. I can't remember.

But there we were, my mother and I. God, it was so hard. I didn't know what to do or how to deal with it, but I held her hand and told her I knew I was supposed to let her go, and therefore should do that, but didn't want to....

And she was making this weird sighing sound that I had no idea people who are dying might make. And it went on quite a while. Maybe 10, 15 minutes, I think.

And then, just after she died, everyone came back.

I am the only daughter, with three brothers. So it seemed kind of right. While I say it was hard, it is actually one of the most wonderful things I ever participated in, too.

My mom was a very frustrated Aries trailblazer, who had had a wonderful period in her forties, in the civil rights movement in the south, but then had to move to a small town because my father was bi-polar and alcoholic and an MD. So, she became very unhappy. An unhappy Aries can be tough. I am guessing her ascendant was Taurus, because she dressed beautifully, always, and was incredibly stubborn, and Taurus ascendant was somewhere in the general time of day that she was born, but I could never confirm that.

I would have to go back and see what else was there. I've forgotten now. I know my sun is opposite uranus, and I have read that that can mean a challenging relationship with mom -- fourth house cap Sun to 10th house cancer Uranus.

Anyway, there is a great pay-off for taking care of a dying parent, I think very likely no matter how bad it gets. And a choice that you will probably always be very, very happy that you made. And one that your father probably appreciates more than he can realize or express.

Do you have hospice care? They can be a big help.

This was rather stream of consciousness, and I have to go, so I'm not going to re-read or edit. I hope it's okay.

[Eloriel]

17. After reading the other thread

I've sorta changed my mind. Let happens what happens. I really don't care. They get a forum here, they don't, they go elsewhere. Matters not to me.

It IS apparently time for a change. So be it.

[cliss]

21. Here's my take on what happened --

We got fragmented. Back in the "Good Old Days" when we had showdowns at the Not-OK Corral, we were all part of the Big Family called the Meeting Room. There were lots of fights and disputes on the astrology threads.

In particular, I can remember 2 notorious ones that made the threads grow long, long, long. It seemed like a big nuisance to have to skim over their endless repetition of their viewpoint (I'd read it many times before).

There were so many alerts signalled from the Meeting Room that the administrators decided to be Democratic and split us up into smaller venues, where hopefully people would find their own homes or Rooms if you will. I believe it was done to end the fighting.

Now we have our own Room. I noticed immediately that the fighting stopped. But at the same time - -

it got quiet. Not as many people posted as before. It was nice, but - we became kind of homogeneous. I don't know what the solution is. Restore the Meeting Room? Then you have all the fighting.

[bling bling]

22. This was seriously my favorite forum on DU until a couple of days ago.

I check it out every time I'm on DU. After I read the threads that interest me I "mark" the group so that when I come back later and see the folder icon for this group lit up I know there's a new post and I check to see what's new.

I don't contribute here hardly ever. I learn from it. This was a special place that seemed to truly embrace the idea of teaching and learning. Learning for the sake of learning. Teaching for the sake of teaching. Take it or leave it, but not judgemental. It was just pure in that way and I love that.

I'm a college graduated professional business woman and I feel insulted by some of the claims that this place is too "wierd" because of some posts. I can decide for myself which threads provide enlightening information for me and which ones aren't up my alley. But I don't get weirded out by any posts here by people who believe something I don't nor do I feel like I need to segregate myself from such people/posts. I don't judge any posts as kooky or out there. It is what it is and I'm comfortable enough with who I am to not get freaked out by being around other people who aren't like me for fear that I might be judged as being "weird" by association.

I never cease to be amazed at how people constantly amaze me. You think you know someone, or someplace, and then all of a sudden you realize that it wasn't what you thought it was and that some people turn out to be completely different than you thought -- all of a sudden.

Elorial, you've been a voice of reason throughout the discussion threads here the last day or two and I just wanted to let you know that I've appreciated your posts because you've been saying the things I was thinking (but didn't feel I contributed enough to say personally).

Just my two cents for what it's worth.

[Eloriel]

31. Thanks, bling bling

I rather like YOUR voice of reason too. :evilgrin:

[Matilda]

25. Eloriel, I've noticed that many of the sub-forums go quiet

on a regular basis. I guess everyone starts out with a burst of
shared knowledge, and then things slow down. Then someone comes up
with an interesting new thread, and it takes off again.

I don't think it means that people aren't interested any more. It's
just that there's only so much to say at a given time about one
particular subject.

Although some of the spiritual/religous/metaphysical threads do
seem to overlap a bit, but I'm sure it will sort itself out in time.
Skinner said at the beginning that sub-forums that didn't have much
activity would be taken off, so perhaps after some groups splitting,
some will have to amalgamate to survive.

[icymist]

26. Now wouldn't that be ironic?

perhaps after some groups splitting,
some will have to amalgamate to survive.

:hi:

[Desertrose]

28. it would..and what if this is simply an exercise in....

futility?

We had to do some serious convincing for a long time for Skinner to allow what is in this forum. and now some feel entitled to a whole new group because they don't like some of the things posted here.

What if we remain as one group...will we be able to mend the division created by a few? Will it this place be ruined for all who come here?

Does anyone see how our small microcosm on this board echoes what is happening in the larger world?

A few who start something for reasons..well I'm not going there.....sometimes it has a completely unintended effect and consequences.


I hope that regardless of what Skinner decides, we can be open and accepting of our different interests and beliefs and share this space like enlightened and open minded souls.

(Dream big, don't I :evilgrin: )

[alijana]

29. Just Thinking

Let's put this all into perspective. If I were a Republican I would be dancing in circles and laughing with glee that we are "in-fighting" among ourselves. Nothing like the "Divide and Conquer Strategy" to furthur the neo-conservative agenda.

Perhaps if everyone reading this forum would pour their love and light into here, we would have a resolution for the greatest good of all concerned. Then perhaps whatever would happen there would not be the residual anger and fear that seems to be driving people away.

For that matter, why don't we all send our love and light to each of us here at DU,(the world, the Universe too).

Joy

[LWolf]

30. I'll join you for that!

:hi:

[Eloriel]

32. Excellent point -- and I'd like to elaborate

We had to do some serious convincing for a long time for Skinner to allow what is in this forum.

Some people seem to be under the impression that we asked and we received. Couldn't be farther from the truth. The astrologers and those interested in astrology "found" one another -- DR, me, Gloria (who was also run off some time ago, I suspect), Nancy (I think?), and several others. We got a lot of flak and things moved too fast in GD, and the Lounge was REALLY too fast -- our threads would be on page 2 and never seen again in nothing flat.

So we took up residence in the much slower moving Energy and Environment Forum, and were quite happy there for a while (a few weeks? coupla months? no more than a couple of months), when SUDDENLY all our threads there were locked and we were evicted and literally had no place to go.

Ask the Administrators was still in operation at that time so we asked Skinner if we could have EITHER our own forum somewhere OR an assigned place already in existence that didn't move as fast as GD or Lounge.

After quite a delay, and some research on his part with folks who had also asked for a new forum for this and that purpose pf their own (example: book club!!), he opened the Meeting Room. It was NEVER intended to be astrology only. Skinner would not have gone for that at all. In fact, I always felt he was mildly or even greatly embarrassed by the very existence of people wanting to discuss astrology here at DU. And for those who were around at the time, you will remember how adamant he was that the astrologers were NOT given "their own place," but rather had the right to post to a new forum which was a bit of a catch-all. The description of the Meeting Room also echoed that: it was officially described (maybe still is) as slower than the Lounge -- and we all know how trivial and often downright foolish most of the Lounge content is. (Ugh!)

Anyway, I thank those who worked so hard to get a place for all those interested in astrology (and other metaphysical subjects) here at DU. It's been wonderful, and I want to honor it and ALL the various participants.