Why is loving ourselves so difficult for some of us?

[DemExpat]

A line from Desertrose's post in a thread about herbs.....:loveya: :hi: DR.....really spoke to me just now:

I know for me it is a matter of loving myself and treating myself at least as good as I treat those I care about.

Lately the realization that I never nurture myself the way I nurtured my kids and my animals is becoming very "in my face" and starting to bug me........

One would think that in order to love others you must first love yourself, but I found in life so far that I have only really loved (and faithfully nurtured) my animals and my 2 kids......others I keep somewhat at a distance for self-protection, and as for myself...I feel often too self-absorbed, but not loving, accepting, and attentive as I can be my kids and animals!

Do any of you have similar experiences?

And tips for trying to transpose some of the unconditional love and loving that we have given to others to ourselves?

I keep meaning to try this, especially now that both of my kids have left our home, but so far haven't found the clue to be able to "just do it".....

With my kids and pets it isn't difficult to do or hard work, with myself it seems a chore.....:-(

DemEx

[Beaverhausen]

1. My advice for what it's worth

Louise Hay's books have really helped me, especially "You Can Heal Your Life."

It is amazing the changes that came to me when I started using the tools she recommends.

[DemExpat]

9. She is sitting on my bookself from the 80's.....time to get her out again.

Thanks, Beaverhausen, for reminding me.

DemEx

[Beaverhausen]

16. She has a new book/CD combination that is great

It's called "I Can Do It"

Hearing her voice has an amazingly positive effect on me. It works better than just reading the books for me. I listen to it on my "walks" and I finish not only happy with myself that I got some exercise but feeling much more positive in my outlook on life.

:hug:

[DemExpat]

17. I bought this book/CD on Amazon for myself for Christmas.....

but have not opened it yet - go figure....I know what I need to do, but avoid it.

:spank: DemEx

Thanks, I will go listen to the CD tonight - that is passive enough for me, I should think.....:eyes:

[Beaverhausen]

18. no spanking yourself

one thing I have learned is that all things happen at the perfect time.

You might not have needed to listen to it then but you surely do now!
See...it all works out!

I suggest really giving the CD your undivided attention. As I said I listen to it on my walks thru Griffith Park here in Los Angeles, (I have a great portable CD player) and get lost in her voice and her message. Try to listen once a day for a month.

:hug:

You Are Special! :loveya:

[DemExpat]

20. LOL.....ok then, no spanks for me....

yes, maybe NOW is the time - had the book and CD in the house available for me when needed.

I'll let you know what I think of it and if it has effect.

:hug:

DemEx

[LWolf]

2. This is a lifelong issue.

I thrive when I do; what I find, though, is that as life, and other responsibilities overwhelm me, I'm the first responsibility that gets dropped. Then, when I'm lagging, and not feeling well and energized, I don't get everything else done, either.

Perhaps we should have a daily thread to chronicle what we did that day to nurture ourselves!

[DemExpat]

10. If not daily, then weekly thread for this, LWolf!

Maybe this would be most helpful to those of us who find "everything else" a higher priority....:D

DemEx

[Crowdance]

3. I struggle with this constantly.

I've found that it stems from an inability to see myself as valuable. I realized that I do take very good care of the beings and objects I think are valuable. But never of myself. My teacher said the most profound thing to me: Your problem, Crowdance, is that you cannot see your own goodness. Please try to see yourself through my eyes.

I've been using my teacher's eyes to see my own value these days, and it's helping. Today, at work, someone really crossed a boundary and was derisive and abusive. In the past, I would have done nothing, and felt badly for weeks, convinced in my heart that I deserved such treatment. With my new eyes, though, I told this woman that she'd crossed a boundary, that the least we owe each other as human beings is respect, and the conversation was over. And she was stunned. And I am so happy with the outcome, and the way I cherished my self in it.

So maybe you could think of looking at yourself through the eyes of someone who loves you, and acting on that vision?

[DemExpat]

11. Very good tip, Crowdance....trying to look at yourself through

the eyes of someone who loves you.

Having children helped me in this department ever so much - they taught me that I was loving and lovable....and strong.

But the slam-dunk programming before I had kids is mighty strong - I am finding at present - and I must make some effort now to keep my kids' gifts to me in the forefront.

Thanks, I'll think/meditate some more on this approach.

DemEx

[Desertrose]

4. Good question DemEx....

I have been working with this for awhile now....have been told for a number of years that I am always too hard on myself..

I think we were brainwashed every which way from the time we were little

...growing up it was constantly reinforced by my mother, not to be SELFISH. (I'm sure she was taught that by HER mother.)Sunday school taught that we should always put others before ourselves. Getting married (1970) it was all about making the husband happy.....and of course when the kids came, as infants they HAD to come first....so when IS the time to put our needs and wants at the top of the list for a change??

This big "aha" hit me out of the blue one day when I was getting down on myself for something- can't remember what now- that if I were as hard and mean to my friends as I had been on myself, I wouldn't have any friends! So why should I not treat myself equally as well....or better? That thought kind of brought my attention to the matter as it stood.

Why was it so hard to love myself?? Other people seemed to be able to do it?? Certainly my kids did. (all the animals too...but that is a whole other thing...I feel thats why animals are here...to just love us unconditionally and teach us how to do the same back with those around us....2 legged & 4 legged).


Sometimes I think we have to constantly bring our focus & thoughts back that it is OK to nurture ourselves...just keep giving permission and making , then TAKING the opportunities. I often catch myself pushing and then realize that I don't have to do this or that before I take time to do whatever I need for me in that moment. That its OK. Maybe its just giving ourselves permission until it becomes second nature to treat ourselves the way we would treat a dear & beloved friend.......


I am going to nurture myself right now and say g'nite and get some :boring:

big :hug::hug: to you Dem EX...and you too Crowdance & LWolf and all my dear sweet sister/friends here...:loveya: all, DR

[DemExpat]

12. Yes, it is a focus....

Sometimes I think we have to constantly bring our focus & thoughts back that it is OK to nurture ourselves...just keep giving permission and making , then TAKING the opportunities. I often catch myself pushing and then realize that I don't have to do this or that before I take time to do whatever I need for me in that moment. That its OK. Maybe its just giving ourselves permission until it becomes second nature to treat ourselves the way we would treat a dear & beloved friend.......


until it hopefully becomes second nature...

Kids and animals are just the best nutrients for the soul...:loveya:

And some very special friends that we are blessed to encounter in daily life and here on the Net!

:grouphug:

DemEx

[saracat]

5. Well, I find it hard to appreciate myself when

others don't appreciate me. I know it isn't supposed to matter but it does. I do have some friends who appreciate me but my family has always reinforced a low self esteem, and it is very hard to break. I fluctuate between really appreciating myself and being in the dumps. I function much better with approval. I suspect that may be the same for others!

[DemExpat]

13. Oh, yes, I know all about reinforcing low self-esteem....

and I, too fluctuate as you do between seeing/feeling good about my real strengths and good things and berating myself for all of my shortcomings and weaknesses.

I think it is a life-long work to re-program ourselves too.
The thing is, I believe that the world mirrors us and our attitudes - if I don't feel worthy, people won't find me worthy either.

But with kids and animals this mirror function is totally on a different plane - they mirror our essential beings of love and worthiness, (not our karmic lessons?) and show us that even though damaged or sending out negative messages to be mirrored back by others, THEY see through it all to the preciousness of our being.

:hi:

DemEx

[FreedomAngel82]

6. Yes with me

I guess with me I've never found myself worthy enough. I was going to make a post about this here but it looks like you beat me to it. :shrug: Anyways. As far as I can remember I've always been careful about who I trust and all that. I've had bad luck my whole life so now days I am having some trouble with myself. I think I'm an okay person and like spending time with myself since I'm pretty much a loner (not by choice). I try to refresh my soul either by doing things positive I like, going to church, spending time with various family members and even sending myself healing energy even if it doesn't seem to work on me. Whenever I do send myself healing energy it's as if the next few days something negative happens to me. I don't know why. The first time I decided to start sending myself healing energy for my emotions a cd player and cd was stolen. The second time a friend left my life cause we had an argument about something. I've often wondered if I was just born cursed. I've always wanted to be accepted somewhere in life, but maybe I just try too hard. :shrug: Or maybe not enough.

[saracat]

7. Wow, you sound like me! I never root for a sports team because they always

lose! And I even worry about my political support! Sigh. I keep trying to turn this around. When I am really negative ,I realize I have always gotten the reverse of what I prayed for. I tend not to really pray anymore. I have gotten superstitious about it. OTOH, trying not to sound schitzo, sometimes I think everything is wonderful and it seems wonderful things do happen. I am trying to cultivate that energy!

[FreedomAngel82]

8. Same here

For the past eight years I've always said prayers before I fall asleep. When I go to bed and lay there that's when I can just think and pray and all that. Nothing ever seems to happen. I know in a lot of ways I'm very lucky. I have my family, materialistic items, a house and for the most part I'm pretty healthy and things like that. I know healing energy works for others that I send because of when I've helped friends and stuff. Once a friend was looking to find a cat for a good price to give to someone for a present so I sent this friend some good luck positive energy. The next day (or maybe two days later) she told me that she found a cat for free. Then her now boyfriend had a friend who shot himself and he was in the hospital pretty badly and I sent some healing energy and it seemed to work for him too. So I don't know why it doesn't work for me. :shrug: *sigh* I guess everything with me is backwards for some reason. Whenever I was younger and would make friends I would start to open up to them and show them my real self and think "maybe I have a friend now" and then shortly later they would leave for someone more worthy. :shrug: So I've gotten used to being on my own even though I do have my brother and my parents and a few acquantiances.

[DemExpat]

14. Oh, I can relate here, too!

I try to refresh my soul either by doing things positive I like, going to church, spending time with various family members and even sending myself healing energy even if it doesn't seem to work on me. Whenever I do send myself healing energy it's as if the next few days something negative happens to me. I don't know why. The first time I decided to start sending myself healing energy for my emotions a cd player and cd was stolen. The second time a friend left my life cause we had an argument about something. I've often wondered if I was just born cursed. I've always wanted to be accepted somewhere in life, but maybe I just try too hard. Or maybe not enough.

What stands out to me in your post about your experience is that you sent healing energy to yourself maybe without really believing it, so it gets transformed on the way by the negative expectations somehow.
THis is similar to me to the mirror technique of looking into your own eyes and telling yourself how much you love and appreciate yourself (Louise Hay too, I think)......I have only been able to do this once or twice in the past decades !!!! because it feels so FAKE, contrived, embarrassing somehow to do this.

Yet I have heard from many people that this exercise really, really works - doing it everyday, several times a day.

Which reminds me to put a note on my mirrors to do just this.

:hi:
Thanks.....:hug:

DemEx

[magnolia]

15. Some suggestions...

In one of Caroline Myss's tapes she says that your first marriage has to be to yourself. You need to treat yourself the way you think the perfect husband/wife would treat you. If it feels fake, make a silly game of it. Look in the mirror and say "My but your looking beautiful today!" (You'd want your husband to say this even if you didn't think it was true...right?) Be kind and giving to yourself...treat yourself like a very special person, the most wonderful person in your life. This has made such a difference for me that I'm considering buying myself a ring!

Remember...you create your reality. Do you look at your life and think "THIS is what I created...yuck!" Well, are you in Iraq, your home destroyed, family and friends killed. Are you in Africa, watching your babies starve to death. Think of all the suffering in the world...you didn't create that. If you are living in a free society, have a home and basic needs, some people to love...if you can walk outside and see trees and flowers and a beautiful sky...then you need to thank yourself everyday for the wonderful life you have created.

Think about when your parents conceived you. Your father injected some hundred thousand sperm into your mother. Guess which one made it to the finish line first...YOU!

[DemExpat]

19. I love Caroline Myss.....

and I DO appreciate my life and my world, and am very grateful for my family and circumstances.....

but the wider socio-economic-political currents and events do not bring me hope and joy, and the very personal relationship with myself is something to focus on now that my last chick has left the coop.

:hi:

DemEx

[FreedomAngel82]

21. That's what I'm always working on

I'll have to try working on letting myself accept the energy. Maybe I am too negative and that's how I don't accept it. I'll have to try that. And ew on the parents line. Don't need that image.

[Eloriel]

41. What occurs to me about your case

is represented, I think, by something Iyanla Vanzant said to one of the Starting Over House members recently: Stop telling your old (negative) stories! Some people are addicted to their (negative) stories. Tell NEW stories.

Every time you even remotely THINK about your previous experience as you've described it here, shift the focus to something POSITIVE. Something to be grateful for, something you're happy about, something that went well, what a beautiful day it is, how healthy you are, how much of your life lays ahead for you, whatever. Don't even allow yourself to THINK about how things have been in the past if they've been negative in your estimation, without taking the opportunity to change your "story" to something positive and hopeful. Even if it's only to say, "I am blessed," or some similar affirmation.

Alternately, I'll share something which has helped me a number of times when going thru financial tough times: write down at least 5 things I'm grateful for each night before going to bed. Could be the most miniscule things, could be the same list over and over, just as long as I do it and it's at least 5 things. Ech time I do that, my life changes without my even noticing until, whoops! I notice it's no longer difficult. Oprah Winfrey said her Gratitude Journal changed her life.

[ropi]

22. i read a site and the author of that site

said that we don't love ourselves because it would force us to look at our good, bad, and indifferent aspects of ourselves and force us to 'get real' with our own manifestations. it is noted that on this site it's possible for us to do this, but we'd have to retrain ourselves to stop judging ourselves in comparison to others and to begin to look at ourselves with love from the 'self' in relation to others.

for what it's worth...i thought it was a nice way to rethink how we are conditioned.

[DemExpat]

23. Yes, my happiest times have been when I don't give a hoot what others

think of what I am or what I do.
But when I had growing kids at home I was active (for my standards) to nurture them and provide them with a variety of positive experiences - now I don't have "anything" to do since I never had a career or artistic hobby.
I study now to get my University degree that I didn't when younger, but am finding this often very hard with menopausal brain fog....:-)
Doing it in a mellow tempo is challenging enough for me - and I will be finished in about 2 years (taking 6 years instead of 4)

I also love helping out here on DU with Moderating....but would love something "meatier" to pour myself into....

I don't think that I avoid looking at my good, bad, and indifferent aspects of myself - I spent almost 10 years in intense therapy doing just that....:D

Thanks for the slant on things - I would like to see the link to this site or name of the author.

:hi:

DemEx

[oxbow]

24. See this is why I like this forum

You would never see a question like this in the lounge. People are often so afraid of asking the really important questions.

btw-I can relate to all of what you've said. It's gonna be many years before I learn to love myself

[DemExpat]

25. Does having your art help you with these questions, oxbow?

Can you place this state of being in any of your art, and does that give relief, or put it in a place, or transform it in any way?

:hug:

DemEx

[oxbow]

29. not at this time

then again, I have not been able to do much art lately because of medical stuff. I'm gonna begin trying though, starting tomorrow. So I guess I'll have to get back to you on that one ;)

My art has gotten alot more political since the war though. I think I'm gonna have to start doing more personal stuff, as my soul and my body both need some attention in order to heal.

Oh, and :hug: right back at ya

[magnolia]

26. A little cyber love...

Click on the link below...and type in your first name.

http://www.cse.unsw.edu.au/~geoffo/humour/flattery.html<http://www.cse.unsw.edu.au/~geoffo/humour/flattery.html>

[Desertrose]

27. I've been thinking about this thread DemEX

and it just hit me as I saw so many people posting and expressing the same thing...regardless of *why* we have a hard time loving ourselves...I really think ths is why our world is SO messed up.....

If we are not able to love ourselves and feel undeserving of love and the respect and rights that come along with that love and accept that we don't deserve better....and then there's those who want to feel power & control ( probably because they need something to prove to themselves *they* are worthy and loved )...its a recipe for what we have currently in the world. Throw in some duality from religion, race,social standing, and lordy...what a mess,eh?


So I guess what I am trying to say (not too well here) is that I think it is the most important thing we have to do...is to learn to love and accept who and what we are ...no judging it...just learn to love ourselves...know that we are entitiled to be loved without limits....the tricky part is getting from where we are now to that point....


:) OK...just wanted to throw that in here....hopefully I'll have time later to drop in and make my thoughts a bit clearer. (you know how it is sometimes...if you don't write it down when you think of it ...poof...its gone!!)

Anyhow...I love :loveya: all you guys :)
DR

[oxbow]

28. exactly

money, power, respect, all the materialistic busllshit is just an excuse. Anyone who truly loves themselves would not need such glamours

[DemExpat]

57. With me a part of lower self esteem seems to stem from being sometimes

acutely aware of the incredible inequality and the suffering in this world. If I were aware 24/7 I could not live...:cry:

How some of my choices might be adding to that unfairness and inhumaneness.

Poverty all over the world and I do not do anything to stop it.

Animal abuse everywhere and in our food industries and I actually do nothing to stop it besides eating far less mammal meats and only free-range/organic when I do.....

My son and I were musing after seeing television images of starving children in Darfur yesterday - about how I choose to spend money on my buddy Jack Russel terrier Bonnie - which could buy FOOD and medication for these pitiful, suffering kids. :cry:
I hold animals very highly, but seeing starving children is excruciating.

It is not really a GUILT I feel- just a screaming unfairness that is often unbearable to see.

How can we pamper and love ourselves when there is so much WORK to be done, and even though there ARE some doing it (Doctors without Borders, etc.) it still is s spit in the bucket?

Anyway, rant over, but this is another ingredient for my lack of love for self.

DemEx

[Pathwalker]

30. Maybe we don't love ourselves because we are taught NOT to.

From what I read in this thread, everyone is a nurturer - fulfilling a role that society has taught us to do, yet we are also taught that this role has no value.

Do we honor those who give up their essential, authentic self so that others may thrive? Only if you are a size 00, look like Collista Flockhart or Pamela Anderson Barbie. Only if we use XYZ cleaner, Moisturizer, scrub rush,etc., while looking like we've never cleaned anything in our lives!
Got a wrinkle - cure it with BOTOX, and while you're at it - have a party for it, so all your friends can "cure" their wrinkles, too. Because, what a terrible thing it is to have a face that shows you've been touched by life!
Got grey hair? DYE it, hide it, camoflague it with Clairol, NiceNEasy, or Loreal; after all - you're worth it - IF you're pretty enough. Because we know, only men look good with grey hair.
Got extra weight - get rid of it fast, with GHY, HNV, or whatever the latest diet craze is today, because we all know - you're only loved if you're small enough.

Every thing we see on TV, in print or in ads everywhere we look PROGRAMS us to be dissatisfied with how we LOOK - as if that is the real true measure of WHO we are. I have yet to see a commercial that actually celebrates our SPIRITUAL side, our TRUE authentic, essential self, perhaps because when we focus in on THAT part of ourselves, we are moving beyond our needs for those products they push on us.
So, to even TRY to push past that barrage of programming is an act of courage for which you should all love yourselves! You know, in your heart, that you are more than just a human DOING, and in fact something far greater that has no need for artiface. YOU are a soul, residing in a body, living in a society that does not even acknowledge its existence, let alone its eternal value.
Your soul loves you, too - that's why it's telling you to ignore society's "programming", and love yourself.

[DemExpat]

31. So true, Anj.....this post reminds me.....I find myself missing the days

of youth when my attractiveness brought quite a bit of attention from the outside world....smiles, looks, flirts, stares, approaches.....

Being rather an introvert I used to hate this uninvited attention, but now that I am more invisible to the world, I miss being noticed - just as a person!:wtf:

Maybe its time to become an eccentric middle aged woman to shift the attention from sexual to craziness....LOL....just kidding. OTOH I do admire those people who do absolutely their thing to be seen as a unique individual and "in your face".....:D

Barb

[Desertrose]

35. Oh DemEx, I know exactly what you mean....

I could have written your post word for word...( except I was probably a bit less introverted than you in my youth LOL)

:hug::loveya:
DR

[DemExpat]

36. Funny, DR....I am not surprised....

:loveya: :hug: ....really.

DemEx

[Pathwalker]

46. Um, wait a minute. It is a myth that we aren't supposed

to be interested in our sexuality as we grow older. You don't have to forsake ANYTHING, except maybe joint flexibility...;-) If anything, once you reach a 'certain age' you can enjoy it at a more leisurely pace, as the hormones that make it all hot and heavy give way to acceptance and a more relaxed expoloration of each other's "joy spots"(my husband's term.
So, be as crazy as you wish, but don't for a minute think you have to surrender anything you don't want to!!!

One of my personal "issues" is a LACK of validation from others. Work outside the home gives one a source of validation for their efforts. But as Mothers, our children don't tell us: "Thanks for scolding me Mom, I appreciate it, or at least I will when I'm your age and have children of my own." Validating one's own efforts is considered SELFish, and silly, but it is something we must learn to do - even if it means others disapprove. Easy to say, but oh so hard to do!

My personal goals for this summer are all based on self-imposed, or other LIMITATIONS. Limitations I bought into, or allowed others to place on me. Put simply: Challenging my "Can'ts". You can't do that, Anj - you're too old, you're too...whatever. Thankfully, I started with one that was imposed by my doctors. I have been told FOR YEARS that I must avoid THE HEAT. I was told I couldn't go outside, much less garden if it was warmer than 82 degrees. VERBOTTEN! they said, or I would end up in ER.
I started early, I started small, since I've learned not to just JUMP IN. The first day, I stayed out until it was 83, then 84, 85, until I can now garden until it's 90! I haven't told my doctors, because I haven't needed to - the only time I ended up at ER was when my son broke his leg. Besides, I've got a new holistic practitioner who's told me to simply follow my OWN instincts, which has proven entirely successful!
I have exploered other, more personal limitations, and have found that they too were only there because I allowed them to be. This has resulted in me feeling much happier with myself, my self esteem has improved, and as a result of that, so has me relationships with my loved ones!
So, by taking the time to take care of me, I ended up making those around me happier too - even those who called me self-ish for taking time away from them to help myself grow! In other words, don't worry about the critics - they'll come around when they see the results.

Enjoy life, be who we are - after all, that IS our task in this life -isn't it?

[DemExpat]

53. Of course you are right about enjoying sexuality throughout life....

I was referring more to the outside attention one gets from being attractive sexually in youth. Yes, there ARE some rare women (and men) who remain very attractive to all ages, but, I am not one of them! :D

I became more of an "Earth Momma" type throughout my 30s and 40s, so the mold has been set for me, I'm afraid...

:rofl:

Thanks for your point, though, it is a good one!

DemEx

[bonito]

32. Love can't come from anything but love

We are love. life, love, god all the same thing to me. peace

[DemExpat]

37. It is when the Yin-Yang principals enter the equation

here on earth IMO that it gets problematic.....i.e. what has a front, has a back....so, too with love (attention) and the absence of love.
I think that humans have both of these forces working within ourselves in different balances and focuses.

(I know that I can "be" love for my children and animals, but why not for myself?)

Getting some good answers from all of you above!

:hi:

DemEx

ps. more free flowing thoughts here:
Sometimes I wonder if past-life experience has great influence on this - either experiences of persecutions or even ones of being the one doing the persecuting of others?
(Deep shame in this life from having connected with the knowledge that in the past we, too, have committed unspeakable acts?)

Sometimes this seems a very real possibility.

So, how to "forgive myself" for that?

And also here, I was able to receive my 2 kids as they are, no judgements, with open love channels.....
even though I intuitively know that children born have their spiritual baggage, I felt very motivated to show them love in this life and to help them focus on love and not indifference or hate.
But concerning myself this is difficult - perhaps because we "remember" our "sins" on some level?

[Eloriel]

42. Have you done any past life regression work?

You can do it on your own, or perhaps find a qualified hypnotherapist. It can be VERY healing -- and more than a little fascinating.

In any case, what you will find if you explore some of those past lives where you were the oppressor or victimizer is a lot of COMPASSION for who you were, and what factors conjoined to make you the person you became. A LOT of compassion, which of course fosters understanding and forgiveness.

I remember one person who discovered a past life in which she killed someone...I don't remember the details. But altbo she was horrified, a little, she also could see that "it was different back then, completely different," and such things were seen in a different light -- not quite so horrifying.

Similarly, a brief past life regression of mine during the time when the Atlanteans were experimenting with creating different life forms (e.g., sphinx, half man/half beast, etc. and were using them as slaves), it became clear to me it ws simply not seen as that unspeakably wrong as we would see it today. Doesn't make it right or justifiable, it just lends perspective to the whole matter and especially, as I said, leads to self-forgiveness.

[FreedomAngel82]

48. I've got some past life memories

I know in one of my past lives I was abused by the father and he didn't like me much and various other things. I think if you do have something going on you can figure out where it comes from and start to help and heal yourself. I have a lot of hurt emotions from past lives that have crossed over to this one. I've been working, or trying to, on healing myself. Sometimes it's harder then what it seems.

[TankLV]

33. Don't know if it's exactly that concept, but I just don't think I'm above

or more important than the others I care about.

In my family I will use our dogs as an example.

I will remember to feed the dogs or friends kids, but forget to eat myself when I'm alone.

I take the dogs to the vet, but forget or have more important things to do for me.

I always say to myself that I should exercise more, but constantly and consistently find excuses to NOT do it.

I just don't consider myself more important than others I care about.

[Desertrose]

34. I know what you mean, but maybe its not about being "more important than"

others we care about, but about at least treating ourselves equally as well.

I used to be like that- everyone, kids, animals, plants ...took care of everything before what I needed and should have done for myself .(oh hell, lets be honest, I still do that way too much LOL)

But I am consciously trying to do little (& even big) things for myself that I would do for others I care about...

Just a bit of a shift in how I view myself.

I do agree with so many others upthread that we are not taught to love ourselves...in fact its just the opposite.

[DemExpat]

38. It is a fine balance too with kids...

for we don't want to teach kids that THEY are the all-important ones in the social group....while we are unimportant!

This is a potentially negative message as well, isn't it?

I had faith that by trying to teach my kids (let them experience love) to love themselves that when grown up they would be more than able to preserve that self-love while being open and able to love others.

It seems to be working out in this way with them, but not totally guaranteed....:D

DemEx

[FreedomAngel82]

49. Same here

I try to find some time for myself now days to do something I like. Whether it's just listening to some music, taking a relaxing bath, going shopping with my mother or something like that.

[sojourner]

39. I think a lot of it is our upbringing in a strongly Xtian culture...

where we learn we are "bad" from the start -- and add to that the admonishment not to be "self-centered" which I am only just learning is the most horrible advice possible.

If we were healthy we would be self-centered, giving to ourselves freely so that we would have much to share. And share we must...

But culture has told us to withhold from ourselves in order to do for others. Back-asswards isn't it?

Imagine you're a pitcher. You have many glasses to fill (nurture). How can you do that if you are not regularly cleansed, and being filled yourself? Not possible without going dry. Which leads to self-loathing IMO.

[Desertrose]

40. I agree....I can still hear my mother saying...don't be self-ish

like that was the worst thing imaginable!!

I love the pitcher analogy.

How CAN you help or nurture others when you are parched or starving??
You can't...so yeah, you feel unworthy...which leads to less nurturing of self...and so the cycle goes.

I think one of the reasons the Xtian religion teaches we are "bad" or less than comes from the patriarchal teachings that hold women in just that position...and who takes care of & nurtures the young?...mothers.

Worked real well to keep us subservient when we were taught we didn't deserve any thing more than what the men gave us...til many women (& some men too) figured out its all BS...all about control & manipulation.....and not about any kind of truth.

If the women folk are too tired & drained to think about what is really going on, all the easier for those in control!!


(oops...mini rant LOL)

[DemExpat]

54. Yes, many of us have had strong Christian influences.

The compassion elements really spoke to my heart when I was a little girl....along with the fear of the hell-fire...:grr:

Thanks for this aspect, sojourner,

DemEx

[Eloriel]

43. Well, frankly, I didn't want anything to do with this thread --- until

I didn't have any choice. Like this morning, when circumstances FORCED me to face my own lack of self-love. And yes, you can bet I thought immediately of this thread and my fine plans to just ignore it. "Nuh-huh. You don't get to ignore this subject. It's time."

Way back in 1982 or so, when I was starting to study astrology and visited an astrologer who I thought I might take lessons with, she said to me: Oh, Moon in Leo. That means you get to learn to love yourself.

Huh? Learn to LOVE myself? (I don't think I'd ever heard that phrase before). LOVE myself when most of the time I didn't even LIKE myself? Hah! Fat chance.

And things haven't changed all that much.

So, after a little meditation this morning, and a little journaling (I'll share a few things that came to me during same), I get the urge to turn on the TV so I don't miss the start of my very favorite show, Starting Over, and I flip it on (I swear) literally JUST IN TIME TO HEAR Montel Williams saying to one of his guests at the very, very end of his show, "The person who loves himself can't strike out at another person. You just can't, because you can't find anything to pick at. So, maybe you can work on yourSELF."

Uh, yeah, maybe I could. LOL. Damn, Montel. Didn't know you had my number.

What I'd gotten in meditation was two beautiful thoughts:

* Respect and treat yourself as you would Spirit, for that is what you are.

* Shift focus to what I do want or to the positive whenever I catch myself being negative, self-critical, etc. (And I had gotten such an overwhelming feeling of the enormous BURDENS of the judgmentalism I'd heaped upon myself all these years...wow, all these YEARS. Also the thought: what would my life have been like if I had valued MY activities and talents and interests and skills as well as I valued everyone else's?)

And even before all that, as I sat down and formed the intention to ask Spirit for help and assistance with my situation (the one that brought up the self-love issue), I was greeted with the feeling of being enveloped, and the VERY clear thought: Spirit FLOODS in with help, support and assistance at the very moment you ask for it.

So thanks for starting this $*%#@ thread. :evilgrin:

[Desertrose]

44. heh heh...takes one to know one sweetie

I can sure understand what you are saying....:evilgrin:

Ya know what...I REALLY like what you said about treating ourselves like Spirit.....I think that takes it a step beyond (above?) treating myself as I would my dearest friends.

I also think I should be able to love myself as spirit loves me...unconditionally. I can't imageine Spirit judging or telling me I'm not worthy or whatever.

I was just thinking along the same lines recently...that during my marriage when I was home with my babies ( something that I *really* wanted to do & felt strongly about...being there for my kids as they began their lives)..I was made to & *agreed to* feel guilty for not working a 9 to 5 the way my husband wanted me to. (I tried for a brief time & spent all my income on sitters).

I worked my buns off around the house and grounds taking care & trying to make it all perfect as though I had to justify my being home with my own children.
DUH....and now I am physically paying for all those times I pushed when I should have said NO,I love myself enough not to continually push myself beyond my physical limits.

All those years of feeling I was worth less, because I didn't live up to his expectations of what HE wanted in the marriage......didn't take it all but definitely took part of the joy out of being with my kids.....because **I had to learn to love myself & trust that my judgement and my needs had value.** (Actually I think that was probably the theme of the marriage...maybe I graduated finally and got my diploma in the form of a divorce. LOL)

So hey, glad to oblige...and mega thanks to DemEx for starting this thread.
:loveya: all my sisters!!!!!:hug::hug:
DR

Oh yeah, good reminder...all we have to do is ASK!

[FreedomAngel82]

50. I'm glad you got those messages

I don't think the Montel thing was an accident either. I don't believe in coincidences. Nope. Not anymore after my experiences. My guides (especially my gatekeeper who is my soulmate) are all trying to help me to get to love myself as well and be more positive where it concerns me and how I do have something to offer that special someone out there for me even though I don't think so. I just don't think he'd ever come because I don't think men are very interested in me. But I still think it's worth a try to help myself anyways. I've noticed with life things tend to happen with situations like that when you're not expecting it. I don't like surprises but I'm trying to just chill as they say.

[DemExpat]

56. I was wondering when you might show up, Eloriel....

:D

Thanks to you, too,

:hug:

DemEx

[Behind the Aegis]

45. Here is a crack at that question.

Why is it difficult to love ourselves?

Simple answer: We are taught, early on, that it is wrong to be selfish without a real definition of what selfish is.

Complex answer: Since we are taught being selfish is akin to pride and the like, there is guilt associated with self-love or praise. If I do a good job and others praise me, why cannot I praise myself? It doesn't have to be arrogant or grandiose, but a simple, sane acknowledgment of a true accomplishment. It really comes down to moderation. We see extremes; overly vain people and such, and we know we don't want to be like that, so be take modesty to the level of denial.

It is difficult to see our good points because we are so aware of our own bad points. Loving oneself can be very hard, especially for people who are accustomed to having to care for others. We see loving ourselves as a betrayal of what we should be doing, loving others.

I have a difficult time with it too. Sometimes, I have to remind myself of the good I have done. It is why I save old notes/e-mails and the like. It reminds me that others see good in me, so why should I not see what they see? Are they really my friends and loved ones? If so, then their opinion is important to me. If, in their opinion, I am worth loving, should I not believe them?

Love is a very special gift we give to others, so we should give that gift to ourselves, as well. Knowing this and doing this are two separate things. It is not an easy thing, but it can be done.

So, DemExPat, your kids and pets love you, so acknowledge their gift by showing them you love yourself too! :)

:hug:

[DemExpat]

55. I agree, BtA.....

So, DemExPat, your kids and pets love you, so acknowledge their gift by showing them you love yourself too!

I often try to talk to myself getting it through my head and heart that by not loving myself more attentively I am somehow rejecting the truth of their love for me, and I really do not want to do that.

:hug: :hi:

DemEx

[Eloriel]

47. "There are Flower Essences for that..."

It's a little joke among flower essence practitioners -- whenever anyone complains about ANYthing, you can pretty much always say to them, "There are flower essences for that." This came to me by way of a dear cyberfriend and my flower essence mentor.

She also used to say, "Drink flowers," which I always loved and still do. What an image, eh?

Anyway, I thought I would post a few that I'm familiar with which can help with self-love and possibly related issues. (I may stretch to cast my net a little widely on this.)


BACH or HEALING HERB line:
* Crab Apple -- for poor self-image; if ashamed of pshyical condition and/or appearance. For feelings of shame and uncleanliness. For cleansing.

* Walnut -- for transitions, for breaking old ties (things and people you don't need any more anyway) and a superb psychic protection essence which will keep you from feeling the negative influence of others, for example people who don't support you or don't believe in you, etc.

* Cerato - for lack of confidence in making decisions; if you turn to others for input and are often misguided.

* Chestnut Bud -- for repeatedly making the same mistakes and never learning from the past; if you repeat destructive patterns of behavior and/or relatioships.

* Larch -- if you lack confidence in yoursle for your abilities; for feelings that you cannot do as well as others; if expectations of failures leads to insufficient attempts to succeed.

Really, there are SO many which almost everyone can use at one time or another in their lives. Bach/Healing Herb are the original and most basic essences. They're a great place to start, for anyone not familiar with them. I recommend them highly.


Flower Essence Services
* Golden Ear Drops -- contacting one's childhood experience as a source of emotional well-being; releasing painful memories fromt he past

* Baby Blue Eyes -- childlike innocense and trust; feeling at home in the world, at ease with oneself, supported and loved, connected with spiritual world; lack of support from the father in childhood.

* Mariposa Lily -- for mothering issues (yours or hers) -- feelings of childhood abandonment or abuse, alienated from mother or from mothering.

* Pretty Face -- Beauty that radiates from within; self-acceptance in relation to personal appearance; feeling ugly or rejected because of physical appearance; over-identified with physical appearance.

* Self-Heal -- a good essence in addition with others for for almost any problem, including physical problems because at an energetic level it helps to marshall the body's own healing forces and focus them in the diretion of healing and wellness. Positive, healthy, vital sense of self; healing and beneficent forces arising from within oneself, deep sense of wellness and wholeness. (I've always noticed a shift when I've used this when I've been physically ill -- for me it's been a bit like "picking yourself up and dusting yourself off." I have no way of knowing if it accelerated healing, but I've always felt more focused and more ABLE to do the job of healing once I prepared a formula with Self-Heal in it. FES also makes a Self-Heal cream.)

* Oregon Grape -- Loving inclusion of others; positive expectation of good will from others;' ability to trust. (This is a great essence for people who might be a little shy, or who are facing an event or something where they feel anxious. I've used it to very good effect when going to social functions where I didn't know anyone, etc. It seems to take the edge off that uncomfortable and awkward feeling -- or dread.)

* Manzanita -- Embodiment, integration of spiritual self with the physical world; estranged from earthy world; aversion, disgust or rvulsion towrd the bodily Self and physical world.

* Dogwood -- Grace-filled movement, physical and etheric harmony; awkward and painful awareness of the body, emotional trauma stored deep within the body.

Again, ther eare SO many wonderful essences from this line of essences. I recommend them all highly.

[FreedomAngel82]

51. Drink flowers?

Can you explain this more?

[DemExpat]

52. I have tried many Bach essences.....but I feel that different

complementary healing "systems" or sources work better for some people than others....

I detect very little benefit from Bach while sometimes spectacular effects from Homeopathic remedies.

But one to help be love myself unconditionally I have not stumbled across. :D

:hi:

DemEx

[Eloriel]

59. I know what you mean

The first several times I tried the Bach remedies, they "didn't work" for me either.

Actually, I think there are at least two things going on. First, in my own case and in other cases I've seen, one has to know what to look for and how to look for it to detect the changes. There's a certain level of introspection required, and while I'd always been introspective, I was looking for larger, grander changes at grosser levels, if that makes sense. What I often sugget to people who are first using FEs or believe they don't work is to write down in detail how they feel about the situation for which they're seeking assistance. The shifts that happen are often very subtle, but there ARE shifts. And, it's also a bit like peeling an onion -- you peel away one layer, and there's another to deal with, even on the same problem.

The other thing I truly believe, based on my own experience and observation, is that some people may need something akin to an initiation or perhaps a sensitization to FEs. I don't know how else to describe it, but what I mean is they need to take FEs in general or sometimes a specific FE for a period of time before they are really "attuned" to them. And then, after that, they work in general or a specific FE works much more quickly than before.

As for homeopathy, it's wonderful and while I don't know a great deal about it, I've most certainly benefitted from it myself. But it's not really an alternative to FEs, AFAIK. Isn't homeopathy for physical conditions primarily? FEs are for mental/emotional/spiritual conditions. So, they don't seem like alternatives to one another.

But I love my FEs. I woke up this morning in the very foulest of moods. Some of the negative emotional "stuff" I've been dealing with over the last year was all right there in full-blown mode again and -- I just can't tell you how negative I felt. I think it'd been growing for a few days, and boom! there it was in ALL its ugly glory this morning. I mean, "life isn't even worth living" foul.

So I brewed up a formula:

* Freedom From Fear
* Mustard -- for gloom
* Clematis -- for being ungrounded, out of touch with reality (I figured feeling THAT negative wasn't at all realistic)
* Aspen - apprehension
* Gentian - pessimism
* Honeysuckle - regrets over past
* Scleranthus - mood swings, feeling "out of balance"

I took one swig (a couple of drops on the tongue) and swoosh! I literally felt the shift within a few seconds or so. It was a little like someone turned on the lights, or lifted a veil. I think that's the first time that's ever happened to me in quite such a dramatic way. I felt like lavenderdiva in her smudging thread: wow, was that my imgaination? No, it wasn't. That much I know for sure, after my several decades of using them.

I've continued taking a swig every time I think of it, and I'm feeling actually in a fairly GOOD mood (as opposed to just neutral) tonight. Thank heaven. I just can't imagine what it would have taken to get me out of this evolving funk otherwise.

[Eloriel]

58. Had another thought

And whew! I had to search for this one.

Actually, I had this thought days ago and kept forgetting to get over here to add it to this thread.

There was something in Michael Sharp's book (the first one, that we all read) that really caught my attention and resonated with me, and I think may have some bearing on this question.

Bascially, he said that for a very long time (millennia?) now, we have had to dampen our spiritual power until the time was right for Ascension, that there were things going on that were specifically intended to keep us spiritually LESS powerful.

That made sense to me with one thing I've noticed in my own life: every time I ever tried to do yoga (which is very spiritually empowering, in addition to its physical benefits), I'd hurt myself. Every single time, to the point I'm not afraid to even try it. And there are other things which made sense to me about myself and my life in light of that comment by him.

Anyway, just wanted to share that.

[Desertrose]

60. I think you may be on to something....

so.... we have been dampening down our spiritual power, knowing it is necessary to do this from our higher or "ascended" part of our selves...and we get the message reinforcing all this loud and clear from parents, religion, society that its wrong to be *selfish*.

Geez, no wonder its been a struggle to remember to love ourselves first and best in order to be able to love the rest of humanity (OK well as much of it as we can) :evilgrin:

Hmmmm...interesting....thanks El. :hug: :loveya:

Am looking forward to Michael's "Book of Light"...not sure when its due out but hopefully before too long :)

[lavenderdiva]

61. I am so glad I read this thread!

I think the lesson I have to learn is how to love myself. I am extremely hard on myself, and very negative, and put a lot of pressure on myself. In no way is this reflective of my interactions with others; most people think I have a gift of encouragement. But somehow, I just can't seem to do it for myself. My husband is one of the most positive people you'd ever want to meet (sometimes a person like me just wants to cringe! but I love it about him), and quite unlike me. He just doesn't understand why I can't wake up each and every day, with joy and expectancy for the possibilities that that day holds.

I love that through this thread each of you is upholding the others and encouraging one another, and receiving encouragement in return. I think we are open to love from others (and our pets!), and have to find the key to unlock the love we need to give ourselves. IMO, a very hard lesson.