Some thoughts on the economics of hobby gardening harvests...

[HamdenRice]

What got me thinking about this was the threads on what's sizzling and what's fizzling, and on some of the crop choice threads. (I lurk in this forum much more than I post.)

After gardening for several years, and getting the soil of my small urban/suburban garden into peak condition, and after having had many successful harvests of certain crops and many unsuccessful harvests, I have been reflecting on the economics of hobby gardening.

For example, I once tried to grow sweet corn. Corn doesn't grow particularly well here in New York City (relatively short season; adjoining properties limit sunlight) and it takes a very large amount of space comparatively. Even more important, during peak corn season, fresh sweet corn is incredibly cheap. It's not as good, of course, as corn plucked right of the stalk and cooked, but it's pretty good. So I have to conclude that the return on corn -- the amount saved by growing it as compared to buying it -- is really poor.

Economically, my guess is that the very most economically efficient crops in my garden are rasberries and blackberries. After these "weeds" establish themselves, the big problem isn't cultivating them; it's preventing them from taking over the entire backyard. They are perennial and take very little work (other than pulling up unwanted canes). Also, berries are very expensive in the supermarket -- a few dollars per pint. That means that during peak production, the original three small bushes purchased at about $20 per bush, are producing several dollars worth of berries every single day -- for years and years. The draw back is that ultimately, you really can't eat that many berries, although I also guess that they are nutritional superstars in terms of vitamins and anti-oxidants.

Tomatoes are always a good investment, especially grown from seed (as I did this year, compared to starter plants, which I used in the past). I guess that's why everyone but everyone grows them. Even though tomatoes are cheaper in the summer, good vine ripened tomatoes are never that cheap. With just a few plants (about 20) I grow more tomatoes than I can eat or give away. Again, that means that from maybe 5 packets of seeds at $1.50 per packet, I'm getting several dollars worth of tomatoes per day.

A surprise economic powerhouse is parsley. My GF and I are somewhat gormands (she grew up in a restaurant), and we use parsley a lot -- a few times per week. A bunch of parsley cost $1 per bunch at the market. Problem is, that it doesn't last very long. You use a few sprigs and the rest wilts or worse turns to green sludge in a few days. That means that we end up spending basically $1 extra per meal to add parsley flavor to a dish -- when you think of it compared to the cost of say the meat, that's quite ridiculous. Six parsley plants grown from seed from one packet produce all the parsley we need, perfectly fresh, always available, super flavorful, until well after the first frost (parsley wilts at frost, but comes back! Only snow seems to finally kill it). Similar economic analysis of basil and sage -- and sage has the advantage of being semi-perennial if you baby it through the winter (only worked a few times).

Lettuce was also a good economic producer. A head in the market is a dollar and change. For a dollar and change for packet of seed, we have gotten fresh lettuce every day for a while, but then it bolted in the hot weather, and I was lazy getting new seed started, but now I have about 10 young plants for the cool fall that should produce all we can eat till frost. Again, it's quite a return.

Cukes surprised me also. Only three plants out of the pack made it from flats to the garden, but those three plants produce more cukes than we can eat. And cukes are relatively expensive in the market. Wish I knew how to make pickles.

Pole string beans are usually great, but they were (I was) very late starting and they haven't begun to produce. I think they pay for themselves, but they might not this year. Next year, I want to add fresh green peas.

Well this is just a lot of rambling, but I wonder whether you also think about the economics of hobby gardening. Are their crops you would just not grow because it's not worth the cost/effort? Someone posted about black beans some time ago, and I was thinking that a bag of black beans from the market probably costs less than a packet of bean seeds -- so why grow them, except for the fun of it if you have the space. I've written off corn, beans, excess tomato plants, and cabbage.

Any thoughts?

[hippywife]

1. For us it hasn't necessarily been

about the economics. It's been about being able to control our own food supply and what goes in it. Organic produce is expensive and usually not too much of it is local, adding to the petroleum load on our plates. So it's really been environmental rather than economical for us, but for sure it is a lot less expensive to grow your own after the initial investment of time and money to get the garden into being.

[HamdenRice]

5. It isn't primarily about economics for me either

It's just that at some point, with a particular crop, I just start to wonder, "why am I doing this"? Particularly with a small garden, I have had to wonder why I was wasting space.

Also, I spent some time as a consultant in developing countries on topics related to agricultural economics, and since then it's hard for me to think about gardening without thinking about what parts of my hobby would be "efficient" if it were being done by a commercial farmer. In other words, the back of the envelope economics has become part of the hobby.

It's definitely mostly about the quality of the food.

[hippywife]

11. I've really found that

the food I need to not grow are some of the herbs because I can't use them up fast enough before they bolt. I do dry some of them and I froze a bunch of pesto but you can't do either with cilantro, as far as I know. I love cilantro in certain dishes but whether I buy it or grow it, a lot of it goes to waste. It's cheap enough to not be concerned from that aspect, but I always hate to throw away any kind of food.

[pengillian101]

17. Storing Cilantro

This was my first attempt at cilantro this year with good results. I haven't grown any herbs for awhile, so I looked up different ways of storing besides drying. Freezing worked well. Some people put herbs in ice cube trays, fill with water and then you can baggie up the cubes of herbs as you like. I used very small lidded containers filled with cilantro and water, then vacuum bagged those larger chunks.

I also have a jar in the fridge with cilantro and extra virgin olive oil. It's been there a month so far and just fine. I'm assuming it will last a long time.

Now if my tomatoes would just ripen, so I could use up that cilantro in salsa, lol! I've had only two ripe ones so far. Lots of them on the vines, but it is at the tail-end of the season here in northern MN.

[FedUpWithIt All]

18. I have 15 herbs growing in pots.

The ones that do not bolt will be brought inside to overwinter. The rest go straight to compost. I don't feel as if it is a waste when they go into next years soil.

[XemaSab]

2. Interesting discussion

I agree with you about corn... a lot of work for little return, and something always winds up happening to it. For example, one year I had 90 corn plants, and got 20 ears, but all the ears were full of smut. Hugh bummer. :(

I think my favorite thing to grow is herbs. A small plant can go a LONG way.

Lettuce kicks ass too. 12 lettuce plants can feed two people INHUMAN amounts of lettuce for MONTHS.

Everything else I've grown, it's more about the fun than saving money. :shrug:

[appal_jack]

25. i like corn smut even better than corn

Xema,

look up cuitlacoche some time (hope I have spelled it right), or ask one of your Mexican/Central American friends about preparing it: delicious on omelets, with beans, etc.!

If that doesn't convince you, then you can reduce smut incidence by backing off from the nitrogen, and being careful not to damage the roots when cultivating.

I am basically with you & Hamden that corn takes too much effort and space to be worthwhile. I planted a small patch this year, actually HOPING to get some smut and also use the corn as support for my pole beans, but I kinda burned the young plants with too much feathermeal (13% N! :blush:) after reading that excess N could trigger smut. Got a few ears out of the deal, but no cuitlacoche :-(

What can I say? I'm just an unsuccessful smut-lover :P

-app

[asdjrocky]

3. My corn hasn't done as well as I would have liked.

I'm now in between planting corn, more of it, next summer or just keeping the space for something else.

[blue neen]

4. I really just started gardening again this year.

It was fun AND economically successful.

The biggest return for us has been the zucchini. Two little plants that were very cheap to buy and very easy to maintain gave us all of the zucchini that we need. It is versatile, cooking-wise.

I agree with you on the cabbage...it's just not worth it. :)

[HamdenRice]

6. So far three zucchini plants have only produced two zucchinis!

They got shaded by rampant rasberries and tomatoes. I have hope though because there are suddenly lots of flowers.

[blue neen]

7. Yeah, it took a little while for mine to get going, too.

Everything was a little late this summer. The tomatoes are just ripe now.

[NJCher]

8. add carrots to the nay list and leeks to the yay list

Leeks are almost always 2.99 at the store for a bunch but once in a blue moon you can get them for 1.99.

Carrots are inexpensive at the store so I forego them.



Cher

[HamdenRice]

9. I love leeks and they are expensive. Never grown them. Is it a fall crop?

Can I start them now? I'm planting fall bak choi, cilantro, brussels sprouts, lettuce and arugala.

Are leeks also a possible fall crop?

[NJCher]

10. yes, but

You won't be able to harvest them until spring. They will get a good start yet this fall (I plan on starting mine today or tomorrow) and will really shoot off in March/April.

Leeks are very slow growing, especially if you start them in the fall (declining sunlight).

I've overwintered mine the last two years and harvest them in the spring.

I have covered mine but it's not really necessary.



Cher

[hippywife]

12. Pickles are pretty easy.

The best cukes to grow for them are the kirbys.

I made these but without the green pepper. I did add red pepper flake for a little zip, tho. They are delish!
http://allrecipes.com/Recipe/Bread-and-Butter-Pickles-II/Detail.aspx

I also made a dill recipe. I used kosher salt instead of pickling salt which is fine, you just have to use a little more because it's not as dense. At least that's what I read. Still have four more weeks to wait until I can taste them.
http://allrecipes.com/Recipe/Dill-Pickles/Detail.aspx

The results:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=246&topic_id=9714

[grasswire]

13. I think about this quite seriously, occasionally.

Example: my heirloom tomato plants. I have nine of them, at $2.99 each. I bought pots and stakes, too, at about $2 per plant. Heirloom tomatoes at farmers' market are about $3.98 per pound. This means I have to get over a pound from each plant to come near to breaking even. I'm not sure that's going to happen -- the yield isn't that great yet.

OTOH, a volunteer indeterminate cherry tomato plant has taken over a good portion of my yard for two years now, and produces prolifically. Zero cost, big yield.

Beans: planted three varieties of pole beans. Lots of flowers, but no beans yet.

Cukes: the plants had a bad start. So far, two four inch cukes and a lot of little nubbins of lemon cukes showing.

Basil from seed. Not big enough to pick any yet.

It's a little disappointing this year. June was a very bad month weather-wise.

Oh, I forgot the squash. If the weather holds, I'll have some good zucchini and Magda squash.

[bhikkhu]

14. Market value certainly figures into the graden planting

And I have to say that fresh salad - lettuce and then cukes and then lettuce again in fall - is the cornerstone of my garden, and my favorite thing. Second is tomatoes. These three together are so much better out of the garden than from a grocery store, reliable, fresh, and abundantly easy to grow.

Next are the things that store well - green beans, onions and potatoes. In that order. I grow onions again because they are so easy and store well, and its just easier than buying them at the store. Potatoes are harder to justify - they are so cheap its hardly worth it to grow them, but I do anyway on "junk" beds, loose leaves and kitchen scrap that I wouldn't grow anything else in. By the time the 'taters are ready, the beds are good soil as well.

I grow cukes for pickling as well, and have big jars of "refrigerator pickles" now. I cook up one batch of brine and half-fill jars in the fridge, then add pickles as they ripen. They are good for a year, or until the next crop. Its also easy to throw in small onions, garlic or carrots or peppers or anything else you want to keep.

I grow melons and corn as luxuries. They are cheap in the stores at harvest, but they taste best fresh from the garden.

Next year I want to add greens for cooking - asian varieties for stir fries and maybe kale or other hardy types.

[Kolesar]

15. The food you grow is more nutritious (1) because there is no delay in shipment &storage

(2) A gardener can have better quality topsoil that has not been "overworked" for many seasons. Certain elements, and even the general fertility of the soil, will decline over time in intensively-farmed soil.

(3) Organic methods produce more nutritious vegetables.

So, there is a *value* in the food you produce that is hard to quantify but it manifests itself in better nutrition and better health.

My garden is also my training ground for me to learn food production to deal with rising food costs and the possibility of a national or global food shortage. Thinking ahead!

[RedLetterRev]

16. I'm not bothering with corn again

since all my neighbors have fields and fields and fields of the stuff. Right after I planted this year, we had a freak hot spell and a drought which made everyone's garden corn think it was August and it all tassled out at about 3'. We got normal ears but it "jes' didn't look raht". I was counting on tall stalks for my white half-runner beans to trail up. What I got instead was a jungle-y mess when the rain DID arrive and some back-breaking labor to bring in the overabundance of half-runners.

My Kentucky Wonder beans outdid themselves and I brought in masses for canning. I will certainly plant those again next year. For those and the white half-runners, I'll build much stronger trellises and avoid the jungles again. I got probably 4 or 5 pounds of dried cowpeas and about the same amount of black turtle beans. I didn't get to all the turtle beans, so I've got a second volunteer crop coming up.

After just laying there all summer, my watermelon vines have taken over everywhere and have at least 6 fat melons I've spotted. If the deer don't get them first, I may get to enjoy one or two this year :)

I didn't have the best luck with cantaloupes. They got huge. They got ripe. Then the bugs or the rot got them. There must be a trick I haven't learned yet. I only got to enjoy two out of the 8 or 10 that produced. I'll figure that out next year, I hope.

Tomatoes? Oi! I planted Romas, Big Boys, WayAheads, Better Boys, German Johnsons and some yellow ones. The freak hot spell and drought almost spelled disaster, but I babied them all through it. My German Johnson that was so scraggly in June is now (I kid you NOT!!) the size of my Nissan Versa. The 26-quart stainless pot has gone nearly constantly since the first of August, slowly reducing tomatoes for freezing. The freezer is nearly full of tomato concentrate (almost paste) from 12 plants.

I just got 36 cabbages and 36 Georgia Collards in the ground for my fall garden, along with a 36' row of sugar snap peas and a 36' row of snow peas. Tonight I hope to get the turnips in the ground just ahead of the rain predicted from Hanna. (We'll be just on the western edge of her here in central NC.)

As for economics, I've done my garden as green as possible this year. Aside from putting gas in the roto-tiller, I've spent nothing on fertilizer. I did till in alfalfa hay, grass clippings, and green stuff into my 65'x65' plot out back and every time I had grass clippings, shredded paper, coffee grounds, vegetable waste, etc, I put that into the furrows; sort of "compost as you go". This system worked really well for me in town, since the "tea" is immediately useable to the plants that are already up, and the remains get tilled in for next year's crops along with the spent vines, pea-pods, grass clippings at the time, whatever is available. Since I have two plots, portions can lie fallow for a time for natural fermentation to occur in the ground.

I've also used natural mycorrhizae to help the plants break down and take advantage of the humus I've tilled in. This is a naturally-occurring fungus that attaches itself to the plant root and operates symbiotically with the plant. It's available through natural gardening outlets and can make a HUGE difference in plant health. The soil I'm working with had been a tobacco field for a couple of centuries and isn't the nicest in the world. In one season, the difference is visible -- even my neighbors have commented how big and healthy my plants are as compared to theirs. They blink and shake their heads when I answer their question of what sort of fertilizer I'm using with "none".

As for insecticides, I've only used Neem and Volck. I have dogs and my garden plots are right around my well, so chemicals are out of the questions. Neem is a natural extract and Volck is essentially vegetable oil. There's no stopping a dog from eating stuff they're not supposed to and you can't supervise them 24/7. I can't in good conscience put some nasty chemical in them OR me.

I've gotten a few neem trees to raise and they're actually faring rather well. My bitter neem bloomed this year (which surprised my partner and me, as it's still rather small and we hear they bloom rather infrequently). We must be keeping it happy.

My chaya bush has put up new trunks. Next year we should be able to have greens from it. I'd like to have a few more. Aside from having edible leaves, they're a very pretty plant, suitable for edible landscaping. I'm right on the line of Zone 7a and 7b, so mine will have to live in pots and come in of a winter. I have CFL grow lights (the great BA ones with the mogul bases) to keep them happy.

Aside from the investment in plants and seeds, the gas to run the tiller, I've very little else into my garden. Well, let's count sweat-equity. But the bounty has far exceeded my first-year expectations. We have more than enough provender put up in jars and in the freezer to last the winter.

[FedUpWithIt All]

19. We planted a container garden this year.

Although it was relatively small it was a great producer. We have given a fair amount of food away so far. We had five tomatoes (various), six eggplants (WAAAAY too many eggplants), 3 zucchini (only produced 2 squash), 3 yellow squash (produced NONE), 3 cukes, 8 broccoli, 2 green bell pepper, 1 sweet red pepper, 15 + herbs, pole beans, bush beans, snap peas, sweet peas, yellow and white onions, beets and various lettuce and spinach.

This was an experimental year for us. It is the first time we tried containers. The start up was too large to consider this year at all economical. The three wooden boxes we made were around the same cost and three times the size of the self water planters BUT the planters are far easier to maintain and more portable. When the tomatoes were not getting enough light, we simply moved them. The insects were easier to control by moving plants as well.

Our only disaster was the zucchini and yellow squash. They took a long time to throw up female flowers. We also got a type of mold early on and nothing we tried would stop it.

We are hoping next year will be a nearly cost free start-up. We will be using our own compost and will only need to buy a few more planters.



:hi:

[HamdenRice]

21. Start up costs

Start up costs present an interesting problem because you can depreciate them over the years. At first, I thought rasberries were ridiculous -- about $20 for a plant that produced maybe a pint of berries. That's an expensive pint!

After 4 years or so, they are producing their cost several times over each season.

Same is true of container planting if it is more productive than regular planting or if it's your only option. Are you doing this in an urban area, or is this a square foot type strategy?

Either way it may pay for itself after a few years.

[FedUpWithIt All]

22. We expect next year it should pay for itself.

Not every plant will recoup the cost of the planter it is in but the ones that don't are definitely offset by the prolific plants.

We rent and wanted the option to move our garden if we decided to move. We currently live in a suburban area and are fortunate enough to live on one of the few lots in the immediate area that has over a few acres. Last summer the owner thinned out the 3 acres of woods behind our house. It was upsetting to us. Wildlife was displaced. We are trying to save enough to buy our own plot and build a cob (similar to straw bale) home.

We have found that movement is also a very helpful tool in organic gardening. We can over winter some things in the house, we move plants to avoid developing insect populations, we move plants to accommodate their light preferences. We recycle an old 6ft high dog kennel to keep the plants safe from the dozens of deer that roam the property. Both the fence and the plants are portable.

[uppityperson]

20. Mr.UP has been running numbers on spuds since we got a good crop.

How many square feet to feed us yr round. So far I've gotten 94#, figure will end up around 150# in not that big of a space. That means we will eating then at least every day until they go bad, and giving some away to the kid's household too.

I can't grow zucchs to save my life. Slugs ate them this yr, usually if any get past the slugs I get 1 or 2 out of a plant. If I had a greenhouse/one of those plastic row cover things I'd get more tomatoes, etc. Am working on that next. My take on tomatoes is that people grow them not because they may be prolific but because they taste like tomatoes vs store cardboard ones.

My peas did well this yr (sugar snap) and am just finishing them in this cool late starting growing season. Same for scarlet runner beans. They got up past the slugs and were beautiful and now I'm eating lots, need to freeze some tomorrow too.

I used to grow more, some of this, that, the other thing, but am simplifying as to what we will eat. No sense growing lots of lettuce if we don't eat it (seeing them covered with slugs is a bit of a turn off and no way to cook the slug slime off).

I grew cabbages and chard for the chickens, have been giving them leaves to supplement their diet. I plan on keeping the chard going until it bolts, which will probably be through the winter.

[Kolesar]

24. 1# fingerling seed potatoes in 26 lineal ft. of planting beds => 25# of potatoes

http://www.johnnyseeds.com/
Russian Banana by Johnny's Seeds of Maine


Happy, happy! They are delicious. Next year, I want to plant this variety and plant a variety that is suitable for long term storage. We fertilized with coffee grounds to make our alkaline soil more acidic.

The potatoes did not need "a lot of maintenence". We side dressed them once with more coffee grounds + rock phosphate + gypsum. Once they grew in, we did not need to weed since their leaves shaded out the weeds.

[noamnety]

23. My cabbage and corn was a waste

The cabbage was disgusting with slugs and earwigs, and in season it's 19 cents a pound around here. Totally not worth it. The corn also was brutally attacked by earwigs, made me not want to pick or peel it, and the ears were tiny anyway.

The butternut squash was new this year for me, and that's a keeper. Because the stems are solid, not hollow, squash borers never got it. My other absolute favorite is beets, they just grow so danged good and you can eat the whole thing - leaves & root. My rainbow chard is another definite keeper - not bolting in the summer heat is awesome, and pest damage is minimal. Pink banana squash made one impressive fruit so I guess it earned its keep, but the borers did get the vine. I have no clue how the fruit grew so massive when the vine looked so pathetic.

Some of my other favorites - asparagus, low low maintenance because it just comes up every year, and so different from asparagus from the store. Same with currants and gooseberries - plant once, pick forever. In trees, the sour cherry trees are doing great, I didn't pick the red pears quite soon enough - should have picked them when they were still hard, but the ones that weren't overripe were amazing. And my persimmon tree is doing great. I'm hoping to taste the pawpaws this year. Two years ago I got one fruit, which was good. Last year I had a few more and the critters stole them all. This year I have wire cages around each clump - hoping to protect them til they are ripe.

[franmarz]

26. I will start my first garden in Taylor Texas this spring-

I really enjoyed the comments of all the entries. I remember my grandfathers victory garden and am anxious to start mine. The weather here -now-Feb 08-is starting to get warmer, soon the bluebonnets will be out and my gardening will begin. My son here, plants only tomatoes and many kinds of peppers, he makes a mean hot sauce and cans it. I enjoy reading everyones comments on gardening.

[WolverineDG]

27. It feels like spring here in Laredo

Supposed to be in the 90's tomorrow. :crazy:

Anyway, good luck with your garden & head on over to the Texas forum. Lots of us on DU! :hi:

dg

[Trailrider1951]

29. Hi there, neighbor!

I'm just up the road from you, in Bartlett. Small world, isn't it?
:hi:

[tsuki]

28. Berries, suggestion. Berry juice, jam, dumplings. It uses up all

mine (I have blueberries and huckleberries.)

[Tsiyu]

30. Very good thread

My garden fed me all summer when $$ were scarce, and this year's garden is also being planned to maximize $$$ value as well as to sell at the local grower's co-op.

The berries do take up space but I canned a lot of them and gave what remained as gifts. Blackberry syrup is absolutely delish on pancakes.

Peppers were a real surprise. I grew bells, bananas and chilis and also canned so many of them. When I lost my job the week after Thanksgiving, I was glad for all of those peppers to give as gifts (and finally heard back through family and friend grapevine that they were well-loved.) I had so many banana peppers I was giving them away. This year I will sell the excess.

Herbs are also a money maker. My two rosemary plants (potted) are growing like crazy and I always have fresh rosemary. I also have sage, oregano, etc, and they come back every year and are very hardy so they are a good investment.

Summer Squash and zuchinni and cukes went nuts here so pickles of course and my favorite meals this summer were grilled or sauted squash, zuchinni and herbs and tomatos and peppers over rice, in soup and with pasta.

I can't grow a lot of rambling things like pumpkins so I do have space considerations, like you I have to consider that factor.

Happy gardening :hi:

[HamdenRice]

31. Sounds great. I've had mixed experience with peppers

I've grown jalapenos and had far more than I could use, even though I love hot pepper in lots of dishes. But I've never gotten more than a few thin skinned, small bell peppers.

I had too many cukes and didn't know how to pickle. But at the very end of the season, after pulling up the last plants, when I had a whole basket of greet tomatoes (which I had been experimenting with cooking with all spring and summer) I tried pickling, and I had several jars of delicious pickled green tomatoes.

Zukes vary from year to year. One year I had a lot. Another year, each plant grew one enormous zuke that hid somewhere until it was almost too late. Last year I had white mildew and maybe one zucchini, which was disappointing.

Tomatoes are always a good bet.

[Tsiyu]

32. Just had a hailstorm as I opened this

And the wind is psycho. I am yelling at the sky so i may drop off....

Dill pickles are really easy as are bread n butter. I was amazed how easy actually. I'll find a recipe and post it for you when this dies down.

Yeah, my bells were nothing to brag about but the chilis and bananas made up for it. I had green and red chilis out the yazoo. Strung and dried the reds in long long chains! The greens got pickled.

I actually found I prefer the sweet bananas to the bells. They are a bit milder and are really good in egg dishes.

Yeah, those tomatoes are keepers in my garden.