I need some serious weed eradication!

[OnionPatch]

It's that time of year....the catalogs are here and I'm making my garden plans. My poor garden. Last year, I was suffering from a back problem and had to skip my yearly vegetable garden. Now the whole garden has been taken over by bermuda grass. :( I have another spot to put the garden this year, though, far from the bermuda grass. It will be ok there for a year or two, but eventually, I need to move my garden back to its original location.

Meanwhile, I have to get rid of the Bermuda grass. From my experience, that stuff is a real pain to get rid of. I was thinking I might try removing the irragation for a year or two. I'm in southern California. I don't think even Bermuda grass can grow without irrigation, am I right? Does anyone know how long it would have to go without water to kill it off completely? Would a year be enough? Two?

What about smothering? I could cover the area with some black plastic or garden fabric while I'm letting it die of thirst. Would that help?

Finally, if that doesn't kill it, I know Roundup will. I hate to use that stuff, especially in my vegetable garden, but isn't there a certain time period, several years or something, after which the effect of the Roundup would be gone? How long after spraying Roundup, would it be safe to move my vegetable garden back again?

The Bermuda grass is growing in the yard and orchard and they border the garden. I wouln't mind keeping it there if I could keep it from invading the garden again. Has anyone tried different types of barriers? What sort of barriers might work for that? Or should I try to get rid of it from the whole property? I heard that St. Augustine grass may choke it out.

Well, thanks for any advice. Happy Gardening!!

[flying_wahini]

1. the following link has a better way than Round Up...

may want to check it out before you use that poison......
cheaper and a lot healthier than RU


http://www.gardensalive.com/article.asp?ai=463&bhcd2=1201995993

[OnionPatch]

2. Yikes. I hadn't heard all that before.

I knew it was bad, but I've also had lots of people tell me it disintegrates quickly. I really didn't want to resort to using it, and now I really doubt I will. Thanks for the link.

Problem is, I don't think vinegar is any match for Bermuda grass. That stuff is evil. It probably wouldn't kill the deeper roots.

However, I just found an article from UC Davis that talks a little about killing it by thirst. http://www.ipm.ucdavis.edu/PMG/PESTNOTES/pn7453.html It gets killer hot and dry here in the summer. They said to till it a few times throughout the summer so the deeper roots can be brought to the surface to dry out. I'm thinking that might work for me. But to *keep* it out would be the problem afterward.

[hippywife]

3. We have the same problem.

This year we're going to use a weed barrier fabric. I hate to do it and support DuPont but I think it will be better than using RoundUp, which we wouldn't dream of doing. You can use newspaper and cardboard anchored down to smother them out but I'm told that will increase the slug population. Not a big concern for us but out in CA, it might be.

Good luck! :hi:

[BOSSHOG]

4. We have used the fabric in our landscaping

and it does a good job of holding back the weeds but doesn't get rid of them completely. Better then poison though.

[CC]

5. You could use soil solarization.

Here is a link with the basics. http://www.ehow.com/how_2136268_use-soil-solarization-rid-weeds.html
It does take some time and work but isn't that hard to do. The biggest thing is to never leave the area empty or weeds will just take over. I would also think about using some kind of edging. If you don't want to build it up maybe some edging placed deep enough yet high enough to stop roots from spreading in. You could also skip the landscaping fabric if you are going to mulch and be able to keep up with weed control on any new weeds.

[OnionPatch]

6. I wonder if solarization would work better

than just letting it dry out all summer? According to the link, you have to water it before solarization. I would be afraid the roots way down low would not die if they stayed moist. But maybe after six weeks, I could till and do it again. :shrug: Maybe I'll try both. Solarize and till a couple times, then let it dry out the rest of the summer. Nothing will grow there in the southern California summer if I don't water it. I thought about covering the area dry, with black landscape cloth. That should really raise the soil temp, too, I would think.

I guess I have awhile to figure out the barrier. It's going to take forever just to kill the stuff first!

[Gormy Cuss]

7. Bermuda grass is ridiculously hard to eradicate.

It's one of two weeds that tempt me to buy Round-up (bindweed is the other.) When it's dormant but the ground is workable, dig out as much of the root system as you can, then cover the ground with a weed barrier cloth. I've been able to keep it in check that way but it hasn't died off completely. I thought about solarizing but can't figure out the best timing for it here in NorCal.

[OnionPatch]

8. Lol, me too Re: the Round-Up!

I don't use toxic chemicals in my home. Not anywhere. This is the first time I've been tempted!

I would guess the best time for solarization is the hottest, sunniest days of the year. Whenever that may be in Northern CA. July, maybe?

[Gormy Cuss]

10. The problem here (a NorCal valley area, not the coast) is

that when it's sunny and hot enough to solarize, the solid clay soil has dried out so it's impossible to dig out the stolons without a jackhammer. If we had a wet, hot Spring that would probably be the time to do it here.

[OnionPatch]

11. But aren't you supposed to water first?

From what I understand you need to water first, anyway. I also have heavy clay soil here. That stuff is like concrete when it's dry!

When, during the solarization process, are you supposed to dig out the stolons? I thought solarization would kill the whole plant. If not, it's not the answer I'm looking for. My garden is 25 x 60 feet. Way too much area to dig out stolons.

[Gormy Cuss]

13. You know what our adobe is like: it takes a lot of water to loosen it up.

The described method I've seen calls for digging out the area first and tilling, then letting it "bake" for a month or two when the air temps are high. It's that digging out part that would be water intensive unless there's been a recent raining spell. I think IF there a good soaking rainy week in April, that would be the right time to do it because the air has warmed up by then.

I don't dig in the unamended parts of my yard from May to November because it's so awful. When we first moved here we had our neighbor, a commercial rototiller, come through to turn under weeds for fire control each year and even he wouldn't take on the job after April because it was so hard on his equipment, LOL.

[OnionPatch]

15. Ok, I forgot about that part.

But that should work out well if you get some rain in the spring. From the looks of our winter so far this year, you might get lucky.

I don't think our clay is quite as bad as yours but it's pretty bad. The first time we tilled it, we used a huge Troy Bilt and it hardly made a dent in the surface. It just left a few chip marks. So we watered it off and on for for about three or four days in a row then let it dry just long enough to be able to work it. So it was water intensive, but we were able to finally get it tilled.

[plantwomyn]

9. Use solarization, one area at a time.

If you don't want to wait 6 weeks everywhere. You can also lay down black plastic and plant right through it, till if you can first to aerate the soil. I would set up a drip system for irrigation to each plant. Then just keep those weeds form popping up through the holes. Clear plastic works goo on areas you are going to leave for a while, but don't leave it for too long because the sun will degrade the plastic and you'll end up with a mess. Afterward plant your garden as full as you can and let the plants you choose block out the grass. You may want to cover your paths with ground cover and gravel if they are going to be permanent. Do not aerate your paths, just cover them. Get the commercial grade though, it's used inside greenhouses and lasts a long time especially with gravel on top. There is edging that it used for bamboo that will keep your grass from creeping into your garden. It's much deeper and is installed in a narrow trench. If it works for bamboo it'll work for anything! Not cheap but saves years of weeding.
The grass in the orchard isn't necessarily bad. It holds water and soil and keeps out "weeds".

[OnionPatch]

12. Sounds like some good advice.

And I will use it for my other weed problems. But the problem is that I did use the black stuff a couple years back and the Bermuda grass grew up through the holes the vegetables were planted in! I had to keep pulling back the plastic to rip the grass out, which made the holes bigger, which let more Bermuda grass grow through...I spent half the summer fighting Bermuda grass and I just want it gone. That's why I'm willing to move my garden for a year or so until I get it under control.

I can keep my garden in the new (Bermuda-free) area for this year and maybe next. Ultimately, that space will be a horse corral, but we aren't quite ready for the horses yet. So I have a couple of years to get rid of the Bermuda before I need to move it back. I would like to keep the Bermuda in the orchard and lawn. It's actually pretty nice grass in that it can stand the SoCal heat and doesn't need a lot of water. I wonder what that edging for the bamboo is like? Or if I could make something similar. Thanks for the tips.

[plantwomyn]

14. For the black plastic to work you have to till first.

Then leave the plastic down for a while. Since you in CA, {hate you BTW} you can till now and leave it down a few weeks B4 you plant. Then you have to keep up with the grass when it's small. You can also use grass clippings to mulch around your plants on top of the plastic. when it dries it will probably blow away, but by then you'll have more clippings.
The bamboo proof edging can be bought on line. It's just like the plastic stuff you see at the home improvement store but it's maybe 10" to a foot instead of 4". You bury it deeper to keep the grass from creeping under it. You could do a stacked edge with the 4" but I doubt it would save money. You could also use weed barrier {the commercial grade} but it would be harder to use and get a clean edge. The bamboo stuff can be moved over {with your mower set right} but the weed barrier cannot as it may get caught by the mower updraft.
Here's another idea for your. If you have livestock, Horses, cows or chickens, you can dump their manure on the area you want to clear out. Just keep it least 4' deep {invite all your neighbors to do the same}. The "hot" manure will burn the grass DEAD. Then the fall B4 you want to plant your new garden, till in the manure and let it go for a couple weeks, covered.
Understand that when you till, you may bring up weed seed that has been too deep to germinate B4. So when your ready, pull up the cover and rack all them little weedies out. Cover and plant.
In the summer don't let the grass seed and don't cut your grass when it's windy, it can spread if you do.
Here's a link for you, you lucky CA gardener.
http://www.ipm.ucdavis.edu/PMG/PESTNOTES/pn7453.html
PS Lived in SF and San Jose area B4 the earthquake and miss my citrus trees!

[OnionPatch]

16. SF and San Jose.....

Very different from where I live. If I lived there, I'd be so very lucky. But I live in the semi-desert out here in the dusty sticks of rural Riverside county. And to be honest, I'm counting the days until I can move from here to somewhere a little more green. (And a little more "blue" for that matter. :) )

I do have chickens and I already use their manure, of course, but I only have seven of them and it's a big garden. I could get horse manure from the neighbors, though. Still, that Bermuda grass is so tough. I know the manure would burn the tops, but would it really kill the roots and all?

[plantwomyn]

17. Yes.

Just use the manure fresh from the barn or coup. Even fresh grass clippings, whole leaves and tree grindings and wood chips work too. When this stuff decomposes it gives off heat and gas and if smothers the grass and any seeds in the topsoil as it burns the grass out. If left too long, say 2 years, it will get "cool" enough to let seed grow again, but until them, it's too hot for anything to grow.
I have used fresh stump grindings to burn out grass along a road side. I just mowed really short, weed whacked everything bald, and mulched the area with stump grindings. It's 2 years latter and no grass or weeds yet. Call your local tree company, they may dump wood chips and grindings at your place for FREE.
BTW after a while your chickens will love to scratch in the decomposing "mulch". All kinds of goodies will make it their home believe it or not.
If it gets to the point where there is too much "mulch" to till into the new garden, take some off the plot and start a compost pile with the excess B4 you till.