I just spent 3 hrs "weeding" my garden.

[uppityperson]

I had 1/2 of it planted, the other half was waiting to get tilled. I've been wondering if the tiller would have a difficult time since the half that's waiting is mostly full of grass that is at least 2 ft high. That part is only about 20 ft by 10 ft, but the grass is tall.

So I decided to edge along the path, and into the bed a little, shoveling and weeding. That went pretty good so I decided there is a narrow part that will be difficult to till, so shoveled and weeded it. That went pretty good also. So I made another path along the edge of the fence, since you can't till that close to the fence anyways.

That went well and looked really nice. So I extended the path along the edge through the middle to the far gate, just because. Then shoveled and weeded between those 2 paths, let me just finish this little bit and I'll stop.

I wonder how hard it will be to dig/weed out any of that really tall grass that is growing next to the pile of horse manure which is waiting to be spread on the garden? Not too difficult, but it took extra time to push the grass over to be able to see where to dig.

I still have a bit left but my knees are sore, my butt is sore, the sun is going down, so I'm quiting, 3 hours later, time for a soak in the bath. And maybe a glass of wine?

I hope the person who is tilling comes Fri. If not, maybe I'll just plant it?

[ThomWV]

1. Mow it and hit it with the tiller

Sounds like a perfect day!

I have started new patches with a tiller over sod. It usually works out well. Hit it first with a lawn mower then usually two passes with the tiller one day and then come back and do it again later. I've found that if I make 2 passes over the area within a couple of days it really works out well. After the first pass its a good idea to pull out any rocks that may have been exposed. The reason I like to come back a couple of days later and hit it again is because the weed and grass that wasn't killed off by the first pass will be starting to rebound from the shock and I think the later second tilling kills a lot of it off. It also exposes more rocks if you have them in your soil. Also, if you plan to use heavy compost, manure, lime, or even chemical fertilizers, you can broadcast them after the first tilling and then till them in with your second tilling a few days later to really disperse them in the soil, with the exception of the chemical stuff the earth worms will love you for it.

[noamnety]

2. No-till methods are WAY less work.

Buried in the comments here http://www.feralscholar.org/blog/index.php/2008/04/24/the-politics-of-food-is-politics/ is a remark by Jonathon: "I’ve done double dug raised beds, stripped sod with shovels and used a rototiller (aka weed spreader) at various times to establish garden beds but after my back yelling at me for several days afterwards and a lot of hard work I’ve got to go with De and found the no-till gardens the way to go."

Tilling will expose new weeds to the surface, you're just replacing one set with another when you go that route, and it's really not necessary.

Lots of good stuff in both the post itself and the comments.

[Lone_Star_Dem]

3. No-till also promotes the development of healthier soil

I'm all about no-till gardening. Tilling disrupts the delicate balance of healthy soil (humus, carbon and worms). Tilling causes erosion, lifts dormant weed seeds (as you mentioned) to the surface and raises the level of fertilizer plants need. Not to mention that it's backbreaking work.

Promote a healthy environment for the worms and let them do the tilling for you is my theory. They provide a nice fertilizer too. :)

[uppityperson]

4. Indeed, I am getting to that point, but this is the first yr it will be a garden.

Last yr it was hard packed dirt that nothing grew in. We had it tilled and I had enough shit to mix in one end. This yr I am adding stuff the other end, which I had originally cover cropped with crimson clover until that nasty weed grass took over. The end I added stuff to last yr needed minimal weeding, will add more stuff later too.

[hippywife]

5. That's what I'm loving

so far about the square foot method. I have yet to pull a single weed. It's going to be a wonderful summer! :D

[ThomWV]

8. I disagree almost completely with recommending "no-till' methods

No till is a farming method that was developed in response to rising fuel cost for the planting of corn on massive scales. If you plant corn on a massive scale in your back yard I suggest you employ the method, otherwise you should use something more appropriate to your situation, and that for most people starting a garden will be a Rototiller, and for good reason.

No till is a means by which corn was drilled into fields which had not been plowed and cultivated that year. It was never used on new fields which had not been in row use previously because even the heavy equipment needed for real No till can not cut through undisturbed sod. That is why in the original methods it was customary to spray the fields with herbicides before using the "no-till" planting - do you do that in your back yard?

The thing about tillers is that they generally aren't necessary after the garden is established, which is why it generally doesn't make much sense to buy one if you can rent one for a couple of hours. With 'no-till' (the home garden version that is being discussed here) there are immediate problems. The first of these is that normally when one is putting in a garden they want a garden this year, not next. With a tiller you can plant as early as when the tilling is done but the more prudent gardener will wait about a week to allow the green materials that were turned under to be well into decomposing and allow the earthworms time to recuperate - which they do quickly in the now loosened soil. With the 'no-till' method once you cover the sod you simply have to wait until it rots before you can do much of anything, and that can take weeks if you're lucky and months if you're not. Actually if you just plan to cover the ground to remove the stuff that's there to begin with you probably should wait until the following season.

Next thing about 'no-till' is it doesn't expose or in any way allow you to discover and remove rocks. Maybe that's not important in your area, here it is a serious battle; people here still build stone walls from the rubble removed from their gardens. A tiller gives jarring evidence that rocks are in the path and give the operator much incentive to remove them. Laying down stuff to kill the grass does no such service.

I would agree that hand digging a good sized garden can be back breaking work (actually I don't even agree with that but I'll get back to it) but running a modern rear-timed tiller is comparatively light duty. You fire it up easily if you are the sort of person who demands that equipment be well cared for and then you walk along side of the thing while it does the work. The hardest thing about running one is turning it around at the end of the rows and if you're on flat land most 12-year-olds can handle the chore with ease. Actually I have never seen that running a tiller is any more work than hauling the mulch than I used on established gardens just about as as much effort as a 'no-till' person would expend getting their garden started.

As for that digging by shovel, I still do it on established beds. The reason I do it is the same reason farmers plow and even real No-till farming methods have to bring in the big plows from time to time. That is the top few inches of the soil, the "root zone" as its sometimes called does indeed become deplete of nutrients, or in some cases saturated with nutrients, after several years of continuous use. Simply digging and turning the soil to a sufficient depth brings the stuff that had washed down back up and if you were smart enough to dress the area with whatever soil amendments you might wish to use it will more evenly distribute them throughout your soil. So digging gets your better distribution of things like lime and manure than simple top dressing or side dressing as no-till would be limited to can never do. But yes, it can be backbreaking work the first time, though once a bed has been established, and particularly if the tiller operator did a conscious job, later hand diggings become simple as pie.

So there are my objections to 'no-till' gardening. It is slow to start a garden, it does not aid in removing obstacles from the garden, it can not be used to deeply incorporate soil amendments, it does not allow leached nutrients to be brought back to the zone where my plants can make use of them. In short I see it as a method of farming designed to aid the commercial farmer that has little application to the home gardener, or at least one who is intent on getting in a garden in the same season getting it in was begun. Once a garden is established its a fine way to tend it, but I just don't see it as a suitable way to establish a garden if a tiller is available.

[crispini]

9. Lasagna gardening!

Or square foot gardening!

Of course, I've never done either one, but as far as allowing you to eliminate the tiller, there are two ideas. :)

I don't till myself, but I have existing raised beds, so I just pretty much toss in heaps of compost and fertilizer and turn it over with a pitchfork.

[ThomWV]

10. Wonderful method

I agree that the one square foot gardening method is useful if it meets your needs, but its not for everyone. Somethings can't be grown that way at all of course - pumpkins and corn come immediately to mind - but they aren't very well suited to larger scale production although the fundamentals of spacing that the method implies still apply. Maybe the most important of those is not to walk on your planting beds but care in spacing certainly has to run a close second.

Like you we no longer till. That's just for getting a plot ready to build a garden on, it doesn't make a garden. You know how woodworkers run their lumber through a planer to square it up before they even start to make a fine piece of furniture? Well, using a tiller on a garden is a lot like that. Its just something you do once in the beginning to establish a foundation, its not a process that has to be repeated year after year.

The real trick to a successful garden other than planning? Mulch!

[hippywife]

12. That's not true.

You can grow melons, corn, squash, pumpkins...just about anything. You just go with vertical frames with sling supports for the heavy fruit. Boxes can be made long and more narrow to allow corn rows or corn can be planted in a regular square box and the three sisters method used.

We've done traditional row gardening for the last two years, switching to the square foot method this year. So far we've used a ton less water and there has been zero need to weed since we aren't tilling up existing ground with all the bermuda grass seeds in it.

I can't foresee any reason to grow traditionally again. It's really that awesome! :hi:

[uppityperson]

6. Update: another container of manure spread and it gets tilled Fri!

It will be the last time to get tilled since we've added enough stuff to make it soil vs hard packed dirt. We'll be adding more every yr, top dressing and maybe digging in a bit of stuff, but no more tilling after Fri! That means I can get spuds in this weekend! Woohoo!

And my butt and knees feel better, though I did have a difficult time getting to sleep last night.

[bhikkhu]

7. I have a couple simple ways of dealing with my heavy clay sod...

A section I plan to convert from grass or weeds to garden I will cover it with a foot or two of leaves over the winter. By spring the leaves will be down to a few inches, the grass will have smothered, and the soil will be lighter and full of earthworms. When the ground is first workable I dig and turn and mix it all under, and by planting time it is rich garden soil.

Another method is burning...we have open burns in my area for garden waste each late spring and early fall, and I usually have a pretty good brush pile by then. I will burn it on a patch of grass I want to turn to garden use. This kills the grass down to the roots and seems to lighten the soil. Digging in the charred bits and ash is a good long-term fertilizer and another American Indian method of building soil.

[uppityperson]

11. I put a thick layer of newspaper, covered with "mt poop" or chips

"mt poop" is the same/manure mix shoveled from the bottom of the chicken run and piled up into a hill. Late fall I have put down a several layer thick layer of newspaper, then covered with mt poop or wood chips. This really helps loosen the soil also.

We got tilled today, went very fast and easy. Tomorrow the spuds beans squash cukes go in!!! And my butt is much better also.