I tried to leave.....

[CanSocDem]

...but there's all these people standing at the door, waiting to give me a kick on the way out.

So let's all step back and pretend we're intelligent adults who understand the dynamics of diplomacy. I didn't come here to agitate, no matter what some of you think. I came here to discuss.....I apologize for not realizing that we all had to be at the same level (you would say 'intellectual', I would say 'spiritual')and I agree that I'm at another level that is quite incompatible with your beliefs.

I would also like to apologize to those with medical problems who thought I was being insensitive to their personal situation in my blanket condemnation of the medical industry. That it is a 'free-market' system is enough to know, that, as a society, you are being duped. That doesn't mean you aren't being helped. It may only mean that you are being 'fleeced'. From what I gather, that's all you are concerned about at this moment in your history.

As a Canadian, having had free medical service since my teens, I've never had to worry about the financial consequences of getting sick. I didn't have to worry about minor health difficulties because I knew that if they got bad enough, they could be fixed without mortgaging the house. During the 3 or 4 years I lived in the USA this attitude prevailed and I limited my exposure to a couple of out-patient visits.

And to set the record straight, I haven't completely given up on the medical system. I like antibiotics, they work for me. So does Advil. The "Cure-All" therapy that I alluded to in another thread, is hypnotherapy. The reason I believe this is because it is usually the power of suggestion that makes us sick in the first place.

Television advertising is telling you that simple indigestion or 'heartburn', needs 'these pills' before it develops into some horrible disease. No mention of bad eating habits and unhealthy food....or more importantly, the tsp of baking soda in a glass of water, that worked fine when I was growing up.

I hope we're all friends now!


.

[mr blur]

1. Sorry, but to me you're just the worst kind of Woo -

One who offers their "spirituality" as a justification for believing (and esopousing) the most dangerous nonsense. Anyone who insists on applying a scientific method just isn't as spiritual or enlightened as you. We've been patronised by experts - I'm afraid you're just a non-starter.

[realisticphish]

2. same old, same old

it never fails :shrug:

[cosmik debris]

3. "it is usually the power of suggestion that makes us sick ..."

Bacteria, virus, fungus, genetic disorders, accidents, assaults, toxic chemicals, even sunshine causes more sickness than the power of suggestion.

If I buy you a plane ticket to Darfur will you explain to those millions that they are only suffering because of the power of suggestion?

Shall we discuss the furnaces of Auschwitz? or the Gulag Archipelago? Did those millions only suffer because of the power of suggestion?

The other day, after a conversation with you, I stopped and asked myself why I was arguing with someone with such a narrow, uneducated view of the world. I will never understand why you are so unwilling to accept all of the evidence put before you, but it is an indication of your own problems, not the problems of others.

I don't care whether you stay or go, but you will not win any friends here until you get a grip on reality.

[CanSocDem]

4. OK....

...but understand, this isn't about 'winning friends'. And you're not "arguing" with me. You express your beliefs, I express mine.

Forums like this are collective materializations created by people who want to communicate.....I am saddened that there are still limits to communication, even among so-called 'progressives'.

These idea's I espouse are hardly new. Like another poster said, they've seen it all before. So, I'm wondering, what is the big deal about discussing the nature of reality.

According to this forum, there is no "nature of..."

REALITY JUST IS.....



.

[cosmik debris]

5. Your reality is incongruent with the facts we see.

Your theory about illness is false and demonstrably so.

You can't call it reality when you deny the evidence in front of you.

Yes, we've seen it all before, and it has been disproved before.

If you had even a minimal scientific education, you would know better.

If you insist on bringing your ignorance into this forum, please have the courtesy not to call it reality.

[CanSocDem]

7. yabut....

"You can't call it reality when you deny the evidence in front of you."


It's this kind of fuzzy logic and lofty arrogance that makes the USA special. It's in everything you do as a country.

You assume to know the evidence in front of me and then, if it doesn't agree with the evidence in front of you, the 'evidence' you imagined I had, is worthless.

Is this what passes as logical discussion here....?????


.

[cosmik debris]

8. Sorry,

You're just too !@#$%^&*() to warrant a response.

[semillama]

11. It's like trying to describe an new object to a person who plucked out his own eyes

Through his adhering to an circular system of logic that is closed to outside input, there is no way to influence or convince this person of the fallacy of his belief system. There's no use in arguing or discussing anything with a disrupter, no matter how much they protest that was not their purpose. I'd suggest putting him on ignore and we can go about our business.

[cosmik debris]

13. closed to outside input is 100% correct.

I presented Millions of examples to contradict his nonsense, and it was as if I had said nothing.

If he chooses to ignore the obvious, I'm sure I can ignore him.

[CanSocDem]

15. your "millions of examples"....

...were millions of people that were sick. I count that as one example. The rest of your time you were trying to inflame the thread by calling me a "rapist".

I wouldn't mind at all if you or anybody else put me on ignore. Clearly it would be because you have nothing to contribute....Hello.....!!??!!


.

[mr blur]

9. Actually it's unfair to "blame" the attitude of the USA here,

we're not all from the USA on this forum.

[salvorhardin]

6. That about sums it up

REALITY JUST IS.....

If you aren't working from the axiom that there is an objective reality independent of the observer then there is a fundamental schism between our beliefs and yours because all of our beliefs about ourselves and the world we live in stem from that single axiom. Also central to the worldview of the denizens of this group is the notion that through careful observation and experimentation whilst attempting to control for our own innate human frailties and biases we can ascertain the properties of the objective world, albeit imperfectly. So if in these essential things you believe differently, there can be no discussion.

[CanSocDem]

10. where we may agree....

...is that things aren't working out too well for most people on the planet. And they're about to get worse, so I think it's time to have a closer look at 'that objective reality'.

I appreciate your ability to see the difference in our beliefs. However, the "objective reality" you're so proud of, has been taking some heat from the physicists lately, hasn't it....???

Everywhere I go, everything I do, I'm finding, is influenced by my expectations.

How is it helping you to go into situations feeling powerless??


.

[mr blur]

12. That's not enlightenment, just arrogance.

"Everywhere I go, everything I do, I'm finding, is influenced by my expectations."

Do you actually have no idea how ridiculous this sounds?!

I mean, you're not simply claiming that your experiences of everything you see and do are effected by your expectations (which would, at least, be reasonable) but that the very nature of "reality" is changed by your presence and attitudes. Really, you need to get a grip.

[CanSocDem]

14. And you need....

...remedial logic lessons.

"I mean, you're not simply claiming that your experiences of everything you see and do(my reality) are effected by your expectations (which would, at least, be reasonable)..... but that the very nature of "reality" is changed by your presence and attitudes(my expectations)."

Where does it become un-reasonable....?????


.

[salvorhardin]

16. Here's where it becomes unreasonable

It becomes unreasonable when you assert that objective reality is effected merely by your thoughts. If you can not see how that assumption renders all logic meaningless then I respectfully suggest it is you who needs remedial logic lessons. You will find some helpful tutorials here: http://logic.philosophy.ox.ac.uk

[CanSocDem]

17. Specifically, my "expectations"...

...effect MY reality. When I step up to shoot a game of 8-ball, if I don't expect to win, I won't. If I expect to win, it still comes down to EVERY shot, but each one is made with the expectation of winning.

Sports psychology is well-respected in most circles.


.

[LeftishBrit]

18. So if McCain expects to win the election, he will?

Obviously, if your low expectations prevent you from seriously trying, then you're unlikely to win. But high expectations won't on their own make you win.

[CanSocDem]

19. I haven't heard him say he has already lost.

But then again what candidate ever admits to having no chance...???

Seriously though, what comes first- 'low expectations' or uninspired play ??

Your position seems to be that 'uninspired play' is just that, nothing more. My position is that the 'low expectations' cause the 'uninspired play' and by raising expectations one can raise the level of 'play'.

[LeftishBrit]

20. Raising expectations *on its own* is unlikely to raise the level of play...

Putting more effort/practice into one's game may improve performance, and this tends to be related to moderately high expectations. Over-confidence may lead to people not feeling it necessary to make an effort, and low expectations may lead to their feeling that it isn't worth it.

So expectations are relevant; but not the whole story.

[uppityperson]

33. well, I guess that didn't happen. McCain must've really wanted to lose

as did Palin. I am having difficulty reading through this topic as I keep laughing and having to chase my eyeballs as they roll out of my skull. Not rolling at you, by the way.

[mr blur]

32. Oh, I see - you don't share the same reality as the rest of us.

Now it all makes sense. Rather obvious really.

[Heddi]

21. As a Nurse, I have to just tell you how full of beans you are

Look, I agree that attitude can affect people's wellbeing. Someone who has a positive attitude will often have a better outcome, or better results, or just a better attitude in the face of life-threatening illness or injury.

But your repeated statements that illness comes from state of mind is absolute BULLSHIT.

If you would take 6 weeks and take a basic course in human anatomy and physiology, you would realize that there ARE, in fact, disorders that cause illness and injury. No amount of positive thinking or rearranging state of mind will fix Atrial Fibrillation. No amount of ressessing your reality will make your heart go from not beating (asystole) to a fully normal and perfusing rhythm. NONE.

Power of Positive Thinking will not turn necrotic and gangrenous tissue into tissue that is pink, warm, dry, and alive.

It JUST DOES NOT HAPPEN.

Your repeated attempts to put the reason for illness or injury on the feet of the sufferer is ridiculous and uneducated at best, cruel and uncaring and more at worst.

When you deal with illness, injury, and imminent death on a DAILY FUCKING BASIS like *I* do, then you can talk to me about the power of positive thinking. Until then, you can sit on your ridiculously guilded throne and lecture others with chronic and congenital illnessess and tell them that their "state of mind" is what caused their stroke, or heart attack, or traumatic loss of limb, or multiple organ failure.

You can continue to blather on in your obviously uneducated manner, but I doubt I will see you at your local oncology ward spouting your pearls of wisdom at 7 year olds with leukemia who have a life expectancy of less than 6 months. Why don't you go there and tell THOSE people, their family, their caregivers, how if they were just more POSITIVE and if they would just SHIFT THEIR REALITY, that they could live to be a million years old, disease and virus free.

Please. I encourage you to go to your local trauma center. Find the family members of someone who is in a permanent vegetative state because of traumatic brain injury. Tell those family members how their loved one is in the state they're in because their MIND put them in that state. Why, it has nothing to do with the basic physiological mechanisms of brain injury. No. It's because they CHOSE to be in a permanent vegetative state. They CHOSE to be on a ventilator for the rest of their short lives, to have massive blood transfusions which cause systemic anticoagulation so they start bleeding from their pores. No, they CHOSE multiple organ failure. They CHOSE to have their family turned upside down. It was THEIR choice.

It is very easy for you, again, to sit anonymously behind a computer screen, your pedestrian screed of vomit disguised as deep philosophy flowing from your fingers. Until you "walk the walk" and actually stand inches from the face of a grieving daughter or mother or father or spouse and tell THEM just as you have told us (repeatedly), then I am to gather that you really DON'T have true investment in your so-called thoughts. if they were THAT important to you, if you felt the entire world could be so changed, then you would be out there preaching to those who are MOST affected by it.

But I suppose that you know deep down that no amount of Reality-Shifting could fix the multiple broken facial bones you got from a beat-down from a pediatric cancer patients' parent as you waxed poetically about their child's SUBCONSCIOUS CHOICE to have incurable and painful cancer.

Seriously. I beg of you to spread your words of wisdom far and wide. I'm sure there are rehabilitation facilities and pediatric oncology and hospice wards near you. I would heartily suggest you spend as much of your time possible there. In fact, why don't you try to get a counceling position there. If you have all the answers (which you repeatedly claim you do), then any facility worth its salt would be falling over themselves to hire such a sage as yourself. I'm sure families of those with chronic, congenital, and incurable diseases would be lining up for miles to hear you tell them how it's the MIND that causes brain tumors...not, you know, CANCER. How it is the MIND that causes quadrapalegia, not, you know, SEVERING OF THE SPINAL CORD.

I can't believe you've not made a million dollars on your obvious cures. Perhaps your frame of reality needs to focus on that.

--
On Edit.

if you are so certain of your viewpoints, why don't you voluntarily have your spine at level, oh, C-2 surgically severed. See how much of your reality and positive thought and other bullshit would help you overcome the fact that injuries at that level usually require 24-hour ventilators in order to breathe. How much of your reality-check could allow you to move your limbs?

if your power of positive thought is so powerful, you should be able to undergo this procedure and still use all four limbs, and breathe, and digest, and defecate as someone without any spinal injury would.

Seriously. Prove us all wrong. PROVE that mind control can overcome ANY illness or injury. You want to be accepted to this group---well, this is the skeptics group. We request extraordinary proof for extraordinary claims. Having your spinal cord surgically cut at a high level (or any level, actually) and your retaining FULL PHYSIOLOGICAL FUNCTION as you had BEFORE the surgery would be proof enough for me.

I work at a leading spinal surgery hospital. Should I consult one of the surgeons for your upcoming experiment? I'm sure you'll be eager to prove to us how wrong we are, and how right YOU are.....

[CanSocDem]

22. Well.....aren't you special.

You remind me of the cancer surgeon I told to 'buzz off' 3 or 4 years ago. His feelings were hurt too, that he didn't get the respect he was used to and paid a lot of money for...

But he didn't get to make a cancer patient of me. Would you be happy if I developed the cancer your colleague predicted....?????

"When you deal with illness, injury, and imminent death on a DAILY FUCKING BASIS like *I* do, then you can talk to me about the power of positive thinking. Until then, you can sit on your ridiculously guilded(sic)throne and lecture others with chronic and congenital illnessess(sic) and tell them that their "state of mind" is what caused their stroke, or heart attack, or traumatic loss of limb, or multiple organ failure."

With your reading&writing skills, I fear for your patients. Your lack of understanding is quite typical of the medical industry.


.

[Heddi]

25. I noticed you addressed not a SINGLE thing I wrote

other than to point out an unimportant and inconsequential spelling error that did nothing to dilute the words I wrote, or to cause unnecessary misunderstanding of what I wrote.

One spelling error and perhaps a few grammatical errors that I will admit to because I had just gotten off of a 12-hour shift dealing with those that you feel are so deserving of illness and injury because they were not in the same frame of mind.

I assure you that my patient's needn't fear me, my skills, my knowledge or my education because I added an extra 'u' to GILDED.

I don't need your empty and sarcastic views to make me feel special. The respect I have earned from my peers, my patients and their families are enough for me. Being the only person there to hold the hand of a dying patient is enough for me. Knowing that I have the mental, emotional, and physical fortitude to work in a highly skilled, highly needed job set is enough for me.

What do *YOU* do for the sick and dying on a daily basis? When was the last time YOU pumped life back into a dead body through compressions and false breaths? When was the last time YOU could look at a person's face (not knowing yet that their heart and lungs and organs were failing) and knew they needed immediate intubation and mechanical ventilation?

When was the last time you offered comfort to the parents of a child who was barely old enough to write, but apparently old enough to die a cruel and painful death?

When was the last time you have done anything but spout meaningless philosophy to people on the other side of a computer screen, knowing that you will suffer no physical ramifications for your cruel and heartless words?

I work daily with people who have cancer...why do you feel that I would wish such a thing upon you (or anyone?) My suggestion that you get your spine surgically severed was only so that you could prove to us knuckle-headed skeptics that what you say is true---that impossible odds can be overcome SOLELY through the power of mind control and reality-shifting?

Unlike you, I do not chastise those who are ill and suffering. I do not blame them for their illness. I do not suggest that their illness is a direct result of their negativity, or that they lost use of all limbs because they somehow wanted it to be so.

I wonder how the power of positive thought could help the gentleman whose dressings I changed every hour the other night---the propane tank that heated his home exploded, causing a massive fire. He was burned on 60% of his body as he attempted to save the other members of his family who were sleeping in the blaze. He was older, and will spend the next 2 years in rehabilitation to regain simple use of his remaining limbs--his left arm was amputated because the burns were too deep--there was no way to save the tissue. It had begun to rot and despite best efforts of all involved, his arm had to be removed to prevent the necrotic infection from spreading to the rest of his body. Such an infection would have surely killed him.

His house catching on fire was not because he didn't think good enough, or because he didn't shift his reality enough. It was because a propane tank exploded. He didn't hook it up wrong--it was a rental house he and his family had just moved to.

He didn't lose his arm because he was a negative person. He lost his arm because the tissue was completely burned. Charred. Black. Dead. No blood flow.

I'm sure you'd flippantly remark that he CHOSE to save his family, ergo, he CHOSE to be burned, ergo, he CHOSE to have his arm amputated.

Again, I ask why you don't say these things to those who need to hear it the most---those who are burned and paralyzed and emaciated and cachectic from cancer that is eating their cells one by one. Those whose hearts have scant beats left in them. Those who suffer Alzheimer's and Parkinson's and stroke and seizure. Why don't you tell THEM that THEY are the reason for their suffering, and the suffering of their families.

You are a piece of shit, and you know it. You attempt to make yourself feel "big" by hopefully making others feel "small". You are just as bad, if not worse, than the preachers to lay the fault of natural disasters and illness upon those who didn't "pray" enough or loud enough or hard enough or meaningful enough. You are like the spouse who batters because the other spouse isn't pretty enough, isn't smart enough, isn't tidy enough, isn't "enough" enough. You're like the abusive parent who beats a child mercilessly because the child isn't smart enough, or kind enough, or straight enough.

You prey on the weakness of others to improve your own very flawed self esteem. Were you truly a formed and enlightened being, you would gain life justification from your own accolades, not from the joy you obviously receive from berating and judging others.

You are a shyster. You prey on the emotions of others. You prey on them financially (that I know of). You prey on them emotionally and mentally. You are an abuser of the general trust that humans have between one another. You see what you perceive to be a weakness in another and you exploit it to your greatest good.

Again, though, you do it anonymously. You prey vis a vis. You prey by proxy. You don't have the balls to actually tell someone this to their face. As I've stated before, you may feel that your lack of common cold is because you don't wish to have the common cold, but my friend, you will never be magical enough to wish away the bruised liver and lacerated pancreas and broken nose you would surely obtain were you to be so flippant to a rather burly parent of a rather cachectic 4 year old with stomach cancer.

Oh no. You're smarter than that. You know that the internet will save you from the ass-beating you have so coming to you in such a righteous way.

Why your posts have not been deleted and you have not been tomb stoned, I do not know. I am no longer a moderator of this community and such decisions are beyond my wishes and decision.

The pain you have caused others on this forum is apparent because they have told you so. You have responded in a flippant and sarcastic manner again and again. You ignore questions that are repeatedly posed. You face a logical conundrum and you either ignore it, or change the goalposts so that you are always right and they are always wrong. You are an emotional manipulator who had no place in this forum (per the rules) and no place in this community based on pre-written community standards. Frankly, you have no place in any community, and why you do not shun yourselves from us mere mortals and live your life of mental and physical superiority high in the mountains is beyond me. I really wish you would. Really.

But please feel free to scour this post and find another inconsequential error in spelling and/or grammar. Please feel free to further ignore every question, query, and suggestion made by myself and other well-respected and contributing members of this discussion board.

Please go on feeling that you are so much BETTER than us. I mean, in your own mind you are, and your own reality is the only thing that matters.

I do have the feeling that you truly believe the world stops existing every time you close your eyes.

Keep up with those happy thoughts and reality shifting. We will never know when tragic illness or injury befalls you. As much as we may have a quick thought of "gotcha!", you can rest assured we will never be as cruel to you as you have been to others. See, we're humans, and no matter what flaw(s) an individual may have, we will continue to have a modicum of respect and compassion in their uniqueness, their humanity. So while we may briefly think it, we'll never actually remind you that YOU are solely to blame for your illness as you have done numerous times in this forum. We'll never laugh at your injury to your face and suggest the power of positive thinking will cure all your ills.

See, we are human. We are humane. You should try to shift your reality to THAT school of thought and see where it gets ya.

[CanSocDem]

27. You spend a lot of time on your posts....

....so I will try not to be 'flippant', and piss you off even more (in the spirit of community and all).

"You are a shyster. You prey on the emotions of others. You prey on them financially (that I know of). You prey on them emotionally and mentally. You are an abuser of the general trust that humans have between one another. You see what you perceive to be a weakness in another and you exploit it to your greatest good."

I have answered the questions that are about understanding what I'm saying. There are a few here who think I am "blaming the victim". If you read close or understood what I have said you would realize that I am blaming NO ONE for their misfortune. If anything, I am the only one here who has faith, in even the most unfortunate, that people can improve their lives. It is you and the others who think that if a person has a handicap, then there is no purpose to their lives. All I'm saying is that they know their purpose's in life and despite all your best intentions, you do not.

"You prey on them financially (that I know of)."

I'm a truckdriver....I just wish there was someone I could prey on financially.

I really hope I'm not preying on the people who have been pointing and laughing and calling me a woo-woo. That really would be out of character. (take my word for it...)

.

[Heddi]

28. And you spend just as much time reading and half-assed answering them.

And I know how inconvenient facts are to your reality, but you were the first one to call yourself a woo-woo. You made a post, independent of anyone specifically calling you or your beliefs out on the board. So if you don't want to be called a woo-woo then it would be wise not to address yourself by that term first:


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=247x16516#16948
"If you'll indulge a woo-woo....." was the title to your post, which you started independently without being called out by another poster. YOU started that post with those words.

And you HAVE REPEATEDLY blamed others for their misfortune:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=247&topic_id=16516&mesg_id=16988
"People get sick for their own purposes"

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=247&topic_id=16516&mesg_id=16996
...people choose ill health for their own reasons.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=247&topic_id=16516&mesg_id=17003
And yes you did decide to get that "painful, crippling...disease" for your own reasons. And now you're living through it...kicking and screaming....but living.

Of course, all I know or care to know about you is what you choose to put in your post. If you want me to know that you are in pain, disabled and uninsured then that is the life you want to project. Whether shit happens to me or not, it is not what my life is about so I won't mention it. Telling me about your pain and discomfort doesn't convince me of the reality of your disease, just your reaction to it.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=247&topic_id=16516&mesg_id=17215
I'm saying WHATEVER you got you got for your own, obviously subconcious, intents and purposes.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=247&topic_id=16516&mesg_id=17056
To get where I'm at..."total mental control over health...." all you need to realize is that your thoughts and beliefs create your reality.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=247&topic_id=16516&mesg_id=17067
The question isn't "...where did this disease come from..." but rather "Why did this disease come to me...".

---

Please, what were you saying about "not blaming the victim" again?

And of course I have as much time to spend on my 2 (now 3) posts as you did typing out all of your empty responses in the previous thread. And why SHOULDN'T I have the time? I've already made my millions this week by ensuring that every patient I had either died a terribly horrible death, or became addicted to pills and therapy and Big Pharma, right?

---
If you have all the answers (which you claim with such ferocity that you do), then why AREN'T you picketing hospitals and hospice centers, spreading the word? Charge 5 bucks a pop. If you're so right, and 99.9% of the population are so wrong, why aren't you doing everything in your power, spending every waking moment of your day, spreading the word? Helping the sick and infirm to strengthen their minds so that they may heal themselves of terrible afflictions and chronic diseases?

Surely that would be a charitable, humane thing to do--helping others, you know.

But you don't, and you're not. So again I have to believe that you are just as self-serving as the next huckster down the road. You're not interested in helping ANYONE. Of course you never could, because your goal-posts aren't just moved at every instance where your logic becomes lacking. Rather, your goalposts are entirely unreachable for anyone.

Think positive! Shift Your Reality! But if someone is still sick, then they must not be thinking RIGHT. Their reality hasn't shifted ENOUGH. There is no way to win in your game because anything less than 100% success means that the thinking isn't positive enough. THe lessons haven't been learned enough. The reality hasn't shifted enough. No one will ever be as healthy, or as happy, or as full-bodied as you are because NO ONE will ever be able to meet the standards that you have set.

Same as those who say that the poor would be rich if they just prayed harder. If they just loved god more. if they were better people. So these poor fools pray 20 hours a day, never say a bad word, work work work the wonders of god and yet their rent is still unpaid, their children go unfed...if only they prayed more, loved god more, did god's work more....

Every day millions of adolescent girls and boys starve and purge themselves to unsustainable weights. They feel that if they were just 5 pounds thinner they'd be liked more. When their circle of friends still haven't increased, it's because they didn't lose enough. They ate too much. They were too fat.

You set up unachievable goals. YOU are the only one perfect enough to be in the state you're in. IF ONLY, sigh, the rest of the world would get on board, oh what a utopia we'd live in. No sickness, no death, no illness. But alas, we have those things so OBVIOUSLY you're doing your part, but no one else is. Sigh. Why can't they just think MORE POSITIVELY? Sigh.

How awful you must live in a world that is so overflowing with us non-believers? Whose lack of personal insight and inability to shift our reality causes such suffering on a global sense. You're the only enlightened one, I gather. Too bad we can't all be like you. Sigh.

[uppityperson]

34. thanks for that list, I noticed you got no reply.

probably for the better. Thank you for the list.

[cosmik debris]

23. Remember

You are addressing a person with the scientific knowledge of a second grader and the temperament of a spoiled teenager. You really can't expect any better than that.

[CanSocDem]

24. You again....????

I thought you were putting me on ignore.


.

[Heddi]

26. oh dear. I know 2nd graders and teenagers

who can actually act like human beings. You do such a great disservice to illiterate two year olds and ill-behaved teenagers.

I am disappointed that mods/admin have not upheld the rules of this forum, namely:


Edited on Tue Nov-01-05 07:29 AM by Skinner
This Group is for the discussion of issues related to skepticism, science and pseudoscience, and the role of rationalism in society. Non-skeptics are invited to participate, provided that they do so in a respectful, non-disruptive manner.

This poster has been neither respectful nor non-disruptive. They have been purposefully antagonistic and while I initially enjoyed their idiotic screed, they have become trite and boring, not to mention disruptive, insensitive, rude, and offensive.

I wonder how well their BS would go down if it were posted in the Disability forum? That's a captive audience (to them, at least). Why not go try this shit THERE? I'm sure all of the paras and quads would LOOOOOVE to hear how they, too, can live immortal lives without illness and injury IF ONLY THEY THOUGHT IT TO BE SO.

Ugh. I'm tired....or at least I'm THINKING myself tired..... :eyes:

[Random_Australian]

29. Well, lets see if you respond to me this time.

"So let's all step back and pretend we're intelligent adults who understand the dynamics of diplomacy."

Don't patronise me. Anyway, the rest of the usual stuff aside...

"I apologize for not realizing that we all had to be at the same level"

I have no idea what these 'levels' are. I have a sneaking suspicion this is an attempt to label "I was expected to show a logical, evidence based thought process" as something else. But hey, maybe I'm wrong.

"I would also like to apologize to t"

Most kind of you. I probably sound like someone repeating "you suck!" endlessly, but I type without malice.

As a Australian, having had free medical service since my teens, I've never had to worry about the financial consequences of getting sick. I didn't have to worry about minor health difficulties because I knew that if they got bad enough, they could be fixed without mortgaging the house.

(We have a system that puts a cap on how much most drugs can be sold for. Pharmaceutical companies hate it :) and that couldn't make me happier)

"The reason I believe this is because it is usually the power of suggestion that makes us sick in the first place."

Hmmmm, I subscribe to the idea that bacteria, viruses, chemical imbalances, physiological effects, and the occasional broken limb make us unwell.

I have to admit, quite a few people drive themselves at least insomniac psychologically. Some other minor effects too.

So, which illnesses do you think are caused by suggestion, and why?

"Television advertising is telling you that simple indigestion or 'heartburn', needs 'these pills' before it develops into some horrible disease. No mention of bad eating habits and unhealthy food....or more importantly, the tsp of baking soda in a glass of water, that worked fine when I was growing up."

Ok, I admit that. TV advertising is a steaming pile of shit, completely unrealistic, and has so little to do with reality that they would sell oxygenated water, random herbs, random pills with herb extract, random bacteria to cure just about anything without any mention of taking any kind of care of your body.

If you believe in that crap, I probably won't be happy.

[varkam]

30. I hope this isn't too harsh...

I tried to leave...
...but there's all these people standing at the door, waiting to give me a kick on the way out.

That, however, would not prevent you from leaving. In fact, I would imagine a swift kick to one's backside would give a boost to forward velocity, thereby enabling a speedier exit!

So let's all step back and pretend we're intelligent adults who understand the dynamics of diplomacy. I didn't come here to agitate, no matter what some of you think. I came here to discuss.....I apologize for not realizing that we all had to be at the same level (you would say 'intellectual', I would say 'spiritual')and I agree that I'm at another level that is quite incompatible with your beliefs.

Hey, I'm all for spirituality. I'd consider myself a spiritual individual, though I'm banking that we have different takes on what spirituality is. I digress. The point is that spirituality is fine up until the point that it starts to take the place of knowledge garnered through scientific investigation. At that point, it stops being spirituality and starts being bullshittery.

I would also like to apologize to those with medical problems who thought I was being insensitive to their personal situation in my blanket condemnation of the medical industry. That it is a 'free-market' system is enough to know, that, as a society, you are being duped. That doesn't mean you aren't being helped. It may only mean that you are being 'fleeced'. From what I gather, that's all you are concerned about at this moment in your history.

From what I read, you seemed to be playing a first-rate game of blame-the-victim. You were essentially saying that people who suffer from medical conditions are responsible for those conditions because they aren't thinking positively - or some other bullshittery. Mental state certainly has an impact on outcome results, but flowers and puppies aren't going to make the cancer go away.

As a Canadian, having had free medical service since my teens, I've never had to worry about the financial consequences of getting sick. I didn't have to worry about minor health difficulties because I knew that if they got bad enough, they could be fixed without mortgaging the house. During the 3 or 4 years I lived in the USA this attitude prevailed and I limited my exposure to a couple of out-patient visits.

Ok.

nd to set the record straight, I haven't completely given up on the medical system. I like antibiotics, they work for me. So does Advil. The "Cure-All" therapy that I alluded to in another thread, is hypnotherapy. The reason I believe this is because it is usually the power of suggestion that makes us sick in the first place.

Bullshit. Hypnotherapy isn't going to make the cancer go away, either - it will, however, make your money go away.

Television advertising is telling you that simple indigestion or 'heartburn', needs 'these pills' before it develops into some horrible disease. No mention of bad eating habits and unhealthy food....or more importantly, the tsp of baking soda in a glass of water, that worked fine when I was growing up.

That's the problem with woos - they latch on to a grain of truth and stretch it for miles. It's true that drugs are advertised entirely too much and that meds are over-prescribed in this country. That, however, doesn't mean that alt-med works - no matter how bad you believe that it does.

[uberllama42]

31. I really hope you don't have a rude awakening some day

I honestly hope you manage to live a long and happy life in your fantasy world. If reality intercedes, it is not going to be pleasant for you. Clearly nothing we can say to you will convince you to live in an evidence-based world.

Good luck.

[uriel1972]

35. consider yourself kicked but not recommended.

Don't let us stop you from leaving and taking your drama with you.