Gardasil, vaccines, VAERS and adverse reactions, from the health forum.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

In the many recent topics on Guardasil much reference has been made to adverse reactions, vaccines and VAERS. The following statement was in one article, "The TGA has received 1013 reports of suspected adverse reactions to Gardasil, including soreness, swelling, redness or other reaction at the injection site (20percent), headaches (20percent), dizziness (15percent), nausea (16percent) and vomiting (6.9percent)." People have these same reactions to an injection of Normal Saline. If you stick a needle in someones arm and inject a liquid into the muscle is their arm being sore the next day an adverse reaction? Is them experiencing a vasovagal reaction, an adverse effect of the injection or of the vaccine? I have a friend whose wife gets dizzy, nauseous and sometimes passes out if she is approached with a needle. I have a paramedic friend who passes out every time they try and give him a shot, don't worry he can give them just fine. Many of these symptoms can be attributed to a vasovagal reaction. Should those be reported to VAERS? If you believe so can you tell me what is physiologically taking place and what in the vaccine specifically is causing that physiological reaction? I really don't want the continued flame war, but this is a great place to bounce ideas off a wide variety of people. Thanks in advance for your input.


http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/cancer-jab-linked-to-pancreas-disease/2008/08/16/1218307309515.html

David

[TZ]

1. This is a problematic issue.

I don't think psychosomatic reactions (fear of the needle) should be reported.

As for adverse reactions to Gardasil..its the same kind of thing that any vaccine can trigger.
Vaccines are recommended only for certain segments of the population. People with autoimmune disorders like Lupus should NOT be vaccinated for instance.
Also, people sometimes have underlying disorders that a vaccine can trigger for example..I'm thinking based on that article that the people with pancreatitus were going to get it eventually but the vaccine became the trigger not the underlying cause per se (usually thats some sort of autoimmune problem).
The people who claim that Gardasil is in some way different from your typical vaccine with side effects etc, do NOT understand basic vaccinology.
As for the people who want to *ban* it as dangerous, I say should we ban all foods that people are allergic too? It can potentially kill people.
How about birth control pills? My sister's rhumatologist believes that they *triggered* her Lupus. So should we ban them.
People do not understand the basic biology nor what risk assessment really is, in general and ESPECIALLY IN THE HEALTH FORUM--I have NEVER encountered such biology illiteracy in my life as in that forum.


Edit: Sorry off topic a bit, I think. Vaers has to by law record ever reaction "associated" with the vaccine..thats why its data while useful in a general way..is not proof positive of the vaccine being "dangerous" that the woos make it out to be. I hate seeing a scientific database being politicized but thats what the woos are doing.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

3. Good points.

The headlines of Gardasil linked to 21 deaths according to VAERS are unprovable without further research. 21 women have died from something in some relative proximity to being injected with Gardasil and someone reported it, those are the only true facts you can draw from VAERS. It is annoying to go to the Health forum and read that crap. I told someone to go look at the death certificates for more information and got accused of being as bad as a tobacco scientist. How's that for logic?

David

[cosmik debris]

2. I have a psychosomatic cure for my psychosomatic reaction

I'm a regular blood donor(O neg) but I get queasy and nauseated whenever I see a large needle sticking in my arm. My solution is to look at some hot young babe while they are sticking me and than ask them to cover the arm with a towel when the jab is complete.

Now granted, I'm just a dirty old man, but thinking about sex cures a lot of the problems I have with injections and blood draws.

Do you suppose we could alleviate some of the adverse reactions by hanging dirty pictures in the room where the injections are given?

:)

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

4. Maybe I'll try that excuse the next time I get caught looking at college girls in bikinis by my wife

[Warpy]

5. It's called being a needle weenie

and I know there is no way to predict beforehand who is going to be one, so the best policy is to have them sit or lie down before stabbing them. Teenagers of both sexes tend to be highly dramatic, though, so one can pretty much guarantee there will be a Victorian swoon with any injection.

The Gardasil hysteria tag team in the Health Lounge is getting to be far too much and is destroying that forum, not that it was great to begin with.

I am very close to emailing all the mods with a request to combine all the threads into a weekly "I hate Gardasil because it might make my daughter FUCK" thread, although I'll probably suggest a more obfuscated title.

[LeftishBrit]

6. Actually, I somewhat disagree with you as regards the majority of posters in the Health Forum

I do agree that a lot of overall anti-Gardasil sentiment is just as you say: "I hate Gardasil because it might make my daughter FUCK!" Just like those who demand abstinence-only sex education, and often the same people.

However, I think that those on the Health Forum are more "All pharamaceutical companies are evil, so all the things that they produce are evil" - and especially vaccines: probably because they're given to people who aren't currently ill, and because if there is anything close to universal provision, a lot more people get them than other medications.

There are some very strange assumptions being made: e.g. that the Gardasil vaccine might cause infertility, or birth defects in future offspring, in 15 years' time. Perhaps that is based on the long-term effects of prenatal DES, and an assumption that because Gardasil has something vaguely to do with the female reproductive system, it might have the same sort of effect? Or perhaps someone on the Internet has simply been scaremongering?

To some degree, real corruption by certain government agencies and pharma companies has probably contributed to this general distrust of vaccines and medications. Just as in the UK, the Tory government in the early 90s minimized the very real dangers of BSE so as not to damage British agriculture - and this set the stage for a distrustful public being prepared to believe all that Andrew Wakefield and the Daily Mail said about the MMR vaccine.

Frankly, I might take the Gardasil concerns a little more seriously if they were not generally being made by the same people who insist in the face of all the evidence that 'vaccines cause autism'. Which suggests to me that in most cases (at least on DU), there is a general anti-vaccine attitude behind this.

[Warpy]

8. My criticism didn't lie with the majority of posters

only with the current anti Gardasil tag team.

"Blessed be the crackpots, for they shall allow in the light," is my general feeling toward most of them because they do tend to pick up interesting preliminary research from time to time. However, the overkill on Gardasil is killing the whole forum.

[LeftishBrit]

9. I agree with that last part...

It's very frustrating, because there really are some interesting threads there, but even when people try to kick them, they rapidly get submerged by the 'Big Pharma are poisoning us with teh evil Gardasil!!!111' threads.

[beam me up scottie]

7. Can you tell me more about how they decide which reactions are actually caused by the vaccine?

And who makes those decisions?


I'm glad you found us, Dave, during my rookie days I came here to be schooled about the relationship between mercury, childhood vaccines and autism (or, more accurately, the lack of one).

trotsky and Sal (among others, I wish I could list them all) were more than happy to help me out so that I could join their ranks.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

10. I come here to learn and be challenged.

I have learned quite a bit from the anti-vax folks, once they get past hurling insults and actually answer a question or put forth a source with a modicum of respectability. I'm happy to be here. I just wish people would understand the in the realm of public health you have to get past the visceral reaction to a single death in comparison to saving millions of lives.

David