How is the idea of a group of people being "more evolved"

[TZ]

anything less than the Master Race/Racial superiority theories that have been bandied about for years by Nazi's and other hate groups? If one group is more evolved that implies that another group is less so and therefore inferior in many ways. The rhetoric that people use with Indigos reminds me of an insidious way of the how whites referred to blacks as monkeys.
I don't think this type of new age woo crap is harmless. If one grows up believing one is superior to others, than eventually one is likely to start feeling entitled to things because one is special and deserve it. And will eventually begin treating peers as the inferiors they have been taught they are. It also goes agaisnt everything that this country was founded on with all people are created equal...

[cosmik debris]

1. It certainly makes me wonder.

If the indigos are really an evolutionary step, that would mean that non-indigos MUST all die off and not reproduce with any significant success. That IS evolution. Non-indigos can not be allowed to remain in the gene pool or they will un-do the evolution.

So who is going to arrange for this die-off? Are the indigos going to sit by and watch as millions die? Or will they be the ones doing the killing?

You are right, it is not harmless.

[Silent3]

2. We "normals" wouldn't have to die off...

...we could simply avoid interbreeding until we're no longer genetically compatible, branching the species. Maybe we'd be lucky and the crystals and indigos would deign to keep us as pets. :bounce: :eyes:

[cosmik debris]

4. You're right of course.

But the fastest breeders would be the dominant species. And you have seen how Christians react when they are told not to breed.

My point was that evolution requires thousands of generations OR a catastrophic event. The whole indigo myth pleads for a catastrophic event.

Ironically, the idea that evolution can occur in a few generations proves that these indigos are in much greater need of evolution. Perhaps they can evolve a better BS detector.

[Silent3]

5. Just as bad as the supposed speed of this evolution...

...is the implication that there's some sort of pre-determined goal, like "higher consciousness", or becoming worthy to join an imagined community of advanced oh-so-wise beings, that evolution is marching towards in planned phases.

[cosmik debris]

6. You gave me a great idea for some new woo.

Provolution!

Instead of buying slow evolution we can sell pro-active evolution.

"Give me your money and I will make sure you 'make the cut'".

"Buy my book and learn how to evolve yourself!"

"You too can evolve in just ten minutes a day."

These indigos are sure leaving a lot of money on the table.

[omega minimo]

15. ?

assumption: "the supposed speed of this evolution........"

If it is occurring within the species, why would it not be part of the longterm process?

assumption: "there's some sort of pre-determined goal, like "higher consciousness", or becoming worthy to join an imagined community of advanced oh-so-wise beings, that evolution is marching towards in (planned) phases."

Whatever you want to call it and whatever the "plan" may be, you are describing evolution that we all are part of, as the next poster points out.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

16. Wrong.

"assumption: "there's some sort of pre-determined goal, like "higher consciousness", or becoming worthy to join an imagined community of advanced oh-so-wise beings, that evolution is marching towards in (planned) phases."

Whatever you want to call it and whatever the "plan" may be, you are describing evolution that we all are part of, as the next poster points out."

Evolution has no plan, progress, or goal. Just random accidents and natural selection.

[omega minimo]

19. Well you live in your pinball universe and I'll live in the one we share

:evilgrin: :hi:


And if you heard what I said, I did not say there is a "plan." It's just a word. Another word used to miss the point.

In quotations, I hoped to convey "what the "plan" OR NOT may or MAY NOT be................"

[Odin2005]

24. Teleology is a delusion based on imposing human social reality onto the physical world.

Goals only exist in minds.

[omega minimo]

25. teleology

is a word being presented to discount something I didn't say

:hi:

[Odin2005]

28. Wrong, you said:

"there's some sort of pre-determined goal, like "higher consciousness", or becoming worthy to join an imagined community of advanced oh-so-wise beings, that evolution is marching towards in (planned) phases."

That's teleology.

[omega minimo]

29. sorry, that was a quote of someone else.

[Odin2005]

30. DOH! My bad! n/t.

[Silent3]

31. I'm confused about both what it is that you're referring to...

...and what you're trying to say about it, so I'll just try to repeat what I was saying more clearly.

Evolution has no plan. There is no goal. Whether "we all are part of" it or not does not change that. To the extent that we ever start determining our genetic makeup via artificial means we'll be side-stepping evolution, or, if you call change that happens that way "evolution" it's only by poetic extension of the real meaning of that word you can do so.

Significant evolutionary change take time, especially in a species like humans with long generational times. Whether "we all are part of" it or not does not change that.

So, what exactly are you objecting to that I said? Do you disagree with my statement that evolution is undirected? Do you disagree that human evolution is a slow process?

[omega minimo]

35. I thought Deep 13's post had a lot of good points

points of agreement with room for what we really honestly do not know.

"...we are all equally evolved. One cannot be more evolved than someone else because that would imply we are evolving according to some fixed plan or towards some goal. The lack of purpose in evolution means at most one critter may be more complex than another, but since the simple critter is evolved for a its enviroment, I cannot say it is less evolved than a complex critter." -- Deep 13.

Sorry if my wording was too ambiguous. My POV includes open space for what we can't be certain of in terms of larger systems we live within. I don't need to believe in an anthropomorphic designer. However, I don't need to rail against the whole universe and claim I know everything about the process.

I'm more skeptical of the need to be definitive and certain about things that can't be proven or measured; understanding this universe will continue -- we will continue to learn.

I found it more worthwhile to not fight against not believing in symbols that I don't believe in. The symbol is not the reality.

"Plan" sounds to me like it infers One who Plans. I dunno, not really necessary. Doesn't the patterning of nature and evolution indicate another way to look at the macrocosm?

"Significant evolutionary change take time, especially in a species like humans with long generational times. Whether "we all are part of" it or not does not change that."

Agreed. Although I don't understand why "we are all a part of" is a stumbling block. I mean, aren't we? :spray:

" Do you disagree with my statement that evolution is undirected?"

Again, "undirected" implies a Director, doesn't it? :shrug:

"Do you disagree that human evolution is a slow process?"

No.

Do you think people change over time?

[Silent3]

39. A bicycle is not a horse and a teacup isn't your grandmother.

Just because "we don't know everything" doesn't mean we don't know what our own words in our own languages mean. The word "evolution" has a specific meaning. That meaning does not include special "indigo" and "crystal" children suddenly being born into a generation for the purpose of guiding humanity to "higher consciousness" or some so-called "next stage".

Even if you want to believe such things occur, then whatever that is, it's not evolution. That's not the right word for it.

If you want to give credence to this indigo nonsense simply because "we don't know everything", then what's wrong with the idea that tomorrow all of our grandmothers will turn into teacups? You don't absolutely 100% know that won't happen, do you?

There's a big, big difference between recognizing our ignorance, which is indeed vast, and giving every possible idea that could possibly lurk beyond our knowledge equal consideration, or giving special consideration to ideas that make no sense but which happen to embody our hopes or fears.

[omega minimo]

40. I am not your generic boogeyman. Your post is not a direct response, it's scattershot

[Silent3]

42. A generic response is the that best vague handwaving and generic disagreeableness deserves...

...not to mention sending me rude private messages while blocking any response to your message, which demonstrates well how you'd rather just hear yourself talk than have a real discussion.

[omega minimo]

43. My message was that you could have responded directly to what I wrote, rather than scattershot

cliche arguments you're having with some imagined bogeyman.


Others here were able to carry on something resembling respectful discussion; you chose to answer a reply to your question with insults and assumptions, without addressing what I (not your imaginary version) posted.

Your choice.

If you were capable of knowing the difference, my reply to your question shows that I was interested and open to "have a real discussion" and hear you talk.


You talked AGAINST AND ABOUT your imaginary target, not to what I wrote.

[Silent3]

48. When no one seems to understand what you're getting at...

...when you keep having to complain that others aren't addressing your points, and the general impression in that you're being obnoxious and disrputive, it's time to consider whether or not the problem is on the transmission end, not the reception end.

But please, continue to complain that I'm not addressing what you wrote, utterly disregarding that in my first post to you I made it clear that you weren't being clear, a situation you've not remedied in the slightest.

[omega minimo]

49. The reply began by praising Deep 13's post!!!!!

:crazy: Perhaps if you read it, it could help you understand.

It's not clear why you presume to post "When no one seems to understand what you're getting at..."

You speak for everyone?

As for more of your false accusations, I have talked with and thanked those few willing to communicate respectfully here.



"But please, continue to complain that I'm not addressing what you wrote, utterly disregarding that in my first post to you I made it clear that you weren't being clear, a situation you've not remedied in the slightest."

The remedy was to reply in good faith (which you've shown is underserved) including apologize if my comment was too ambiguous (direct acknowledgment that you found it not clear), state some clarification and then post your questions, with a brief answer immediately following. Can't get much more specific than that.


Your response was nonsensical: "A bicycle is not a horse and a teacup isn't your grandmother."

And a shutdown, including the bigoted assumptions against the generic target, which I didn't refer to and which were irrelevant to my post.

"...special "indigo" and "crystal" children suddenly being born into a generation for the purpose of guiding humanity to "higher consciousness" or some so-called "next stage"." "

"There's a big, big difference between recognizing our ignorance, which is indeed vast, and giving every possible idea that could possibly lurk beyond our knowledge equal consideration, or giving special consideration to ideas that make no sense but which happen to embody our hopes or fears."

Okay. I said nothing of the sort. Not your generic target. Thanks for playing.

Yeah, looks to be on "the receiving end."

[beam me up scottie]

46. You got a love letter too?

And here I thought I was special...:cry:

[omega minimo]

50. rather a witness of your intent to harm

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=247&topic_id=23209&mesg_id=23372

[beam me up scottie]

52. You're the one sending hissy fits in the form of a pm. Am I supposed to be intimidated?

And then there's this:

omega minimo (1000+ posts) Sat Mar-14-09 04:35 PM
Response to Reply #17
20. you know exactly what you've done
to DU

Yes, you've got me. I personally ruined DU.

And you claim to be rational?

:rofl:

12. Always claim that the other guy is "closed-minded" and that you're as free-thinking as a newborn baby. Other woo-woos love the concept of "open-mindedness" and will take you into their inner circle without question. They have no tolerance for those "mean old nasty" types who demand evidence for everything.

22. Refer to anyone who does not immediately agree with you as being uneducated on the matter, lacking in important information, or just plain too stupid to understand your magnificent statements.

[omega minimo]

53. Intimidated? No. Rational? One would have hoped.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=247&topic_id=23209&mesg_id=23401

[beam me up scottie]

56. Your posts in this group are some of the most irrational I've ever seen.

They are funny though, I'll be laughing at them for months, just like I enjoy all of the other responses to your rambling, semi-coherent, irrational, sanctimonious self-righteous lectures:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=5158295&mesg_id=5159793

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=5158295&mesg_id=5161248

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=5158295&mesg_id=5162910

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=5158295&mesg_id=5162851

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=5158295&mesg_id=5162987

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=5158295&mesg_id=5162633


:applause:

[omega minimo]

57. DU is welcome to read my posts w/o your misrepresentations and violations

:boring:

[beam me up scottie]

59. Oh, trust me, they are. Why, you have as many fans in this group as you do everywhere else.

Please, don't stop now, we usually have to look outside of DU for material as funny as yours.

[CreekDog]

107. but if your ideas weren't misrepresented, they wouldn't have any meaning at all

:evilgrin:

[SidDithers]

130. OMG...that thread was a train wreck...

the now deleted post about woo woos being the new faggots was especially ridiculous.

:hi:

Sid

[LooseWilly]

72. One or two little details...

Saying that there is no plan does, in fact, not imply a planner... rather, it implies a lack of a planner... or a very incompetent planner.

And likewise, "undirected" doesn't imply a director, but rather the lack of a director... or perhaps a very incompetent director.

And you can agree or disagree about "human evolution" being a "slow process"... but the definitions of the term "evolution" carries a denotation of a slow process. If you don't believe that it's a slow process... then what you are talking about is not evolution. It's something else.
Not to say you can't call something else evolution too... but it's bound to confuse matters.

And you are quite right to say that symbols are not the reality. Likewise, evolution is just a name, a symbol if you will, for a process... and the name "evolution" is not the reality... but the theory is a symbol for, or means for understanding/quantifying a process which corresponds to/behaves in close similarity to the process of the theory.
That's likewise a fair, as I understand it, way to describe any science.

If you want to mystify it, that's your business. But any further mystification of scientific theories is, at best, just another "symbol" for a system of describing reality, as we measure it. Only with less emphasis on the measureability.

And the idea of people changing over time being equivalent to "evolution" in the scientific sense of the word is like believing that getting a job makes one a yuppie.

[omega minimo]

78. More detail please

"Saying that there is no plan does, in fact, not imply a planner... rather, it implies a lack of a planner... or a very incompetent planner.
"
#40 actually read::

"PLAN SOUNDS LIKE IT INFERS "ONE WHO PLANS". I dunno, not really necessary. Doesn't the patterning of nature and evolution indicate another way to look at the macrocosm?

"If you want to mystify it, that's your business."

Oh I see, you mean editorial "you," cuz I don't think I did mystify it :shrug:

"And the idea of people changing over time being equivalent to "evolution" in the scientific sense of the word is like believing that getting a job makes one a yuppie."

Could you clarify that point, please? How is people changing over time not part of evolution?

:hi:

[jeff30997]

133. assumption:You are a fossil.

Prove me wrong.

[omega minimo]

13. speaking of detectors........

"My point was that evolution requires thousands of generations OR a catastrophic event. The whole indigo myth pleads for a catastrophic event."


Why do you assume it's not the former?

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

18. Because the claim made...

is that "indigo" children evolved in one generation, and "crystal" in the next.

[omega minimo]

20. AFAIK

the terms are used for generations born and don't imply some instantaneous evolutionary process.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

22. How does it not imply some instantaneous process?

There were no indigo children one generation, then plenty, alledgedly. How is that not instantaneous?

[omega minimo]

26. AFAIK

"the terms are used for generations born" during a certain period of time........

[LooseWilly]

73. I'm with High Fructose...

I'm not sure that whatever you're talking about has to do with this Indigo and Crystal Child New Age bullshit... and what I've seen of this "theory" it is complete bullshit... but the notion of "Indigo"s, followed the next generation by "Crystal"s... is sure as shit not evolution... not in the Darwinian use of the term.

If some New Age Sci-Fi writers want to write about "Indigo" and "Crystal" generations... that's all well and nice... but if that is gonna be associated with Evolution, that Sci-Fi writer needs to come up with a new term rather than rip-off Darwin.

[cosmik debris]

37. It is not an assumption

You are just being an asshole.

[Deep13]

3. We all exist at the same point in time, therefore, ...

...we are all equally evolved. One cannot be more evolved than someone else because that would imply we are evolving according to some fixed plan or towards some goal. The lack of purpose in evolution means at most one critter may be more complex than another, but since the simple critter is evolved for a its enviroment, I cannot say it is less evolved than a complex critter.

[omega minimo]

17. Interesting.

Lots to think about there.

[omega minimo]

7. This OP is a dangerous example of propaganda based on complete misinterpretation & misrepresentation

where is proof of the attitude you are claiming others have?

Please be skeptical enough to question these mistaken assumptions.

[cosmik debris]

8. You are in the wrong place.

This is a group for discuassion of skepticism.

Not a group for the discussion of skepticism VS. belief.

If you want to have the discussion of skepticism VS. belief, you are in the wrong place.

It seems pretty obvious that you are trying to pick a fight with the regulars in this group. Groups are NOT for picking fights, forums are for picking fights.

You are in the wrong place. Please find another place for your posts.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

10. Actually, I think that's a fine question.

TZ's making a series of far reaching assumptions without any evidence.

[omega minimo]

12. If there is any such attitude, it would be good to know that

Esp, as these "far reaching assumptions" are extremely inflammatory.

When I used the word in a title descriptively, I didn't know it would push so many buttons for those who may or may not have direct experience of what they are reacting to so strongly.

The apparent notion that anyone would consider different children "better than" others appears to be coming from the detractors -- excuse me, skeptics.

-- edit -- excuse me, some skeptics.............

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

14. They're not inflammatory, they're just assumptions.

If the indigo children people don't like it, they can go fuck themselves.

[omega minimo]

21. You know that's not true

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

23. If a person gets offended does that mean something is inflammatory?

Can it not mean that the offended person is a crybaby who likes to play the victim?

[omega minimo]

27. If a person/group use it to be inflammatory intentionally, does that mean something is inflammatory?

The "victims" don't even need to be around....

[beam me up scottie]

32. Intentionally inflammatory? You mean like these comments?:

it's time to focus on what we want to see/be and not waste time fighting toxic blowhards

"Hey, what's your opinion on why the naysayers keep bringing up the indigo thing?"

They're "douchebags" and when they read this, they'll understand.

What I don't understand is some of the same people looking for/demanding support for their pet issues in GD and sub-forums, issues that marginalize them, are so intolerant, abusive and emotionally retarded in mob attacking others (including those with shared interests).

They are emotionally stunted and it doesn't matter the topic, as long as they can gather like a pack of jackals, tear it apart and GET AWAY WITH IT ON DU.

"What I don't understand is some of the same people looking for/demanding support for their pet issues in GD and sub-forums, issues that marginalize them, are so intolerant, abusive and emotionally retarded in mob attacking others (including those with shared interests)."

similar to
blind belief in "science" and the "rational" causing closed minds and hostile reactions to anything that pushes the envelope of the Already Known.

As different from true science as religion is from spirituality, as zealotry is from rationale.

Do tell.


Leave this group and don't let the paradigm shift hit you on your way out.

[omega minimo]

33. You are posting

comments from a Group, another violation. You also are editing to pretend that I made those comments about other than the attack mobs that arrive and disrupt en masse to disrupt and lock threads. I don't assume to know where they come from -- which subforum or other. I do know that the inflammatory "woo" and totally prejudiced assumptions of some contribute to the disruption.

I stand by my previous comments - that you are cherrypicking -- in context and as much as the hotheads may not want to consder them, there is more description there than intentionally ridiculing or attacking or coming up with a slur to refer to all the "Woohaters." Some I would not state again, the more and more I learn about how knee jerk reactions are on a hair trigger.

I am also capable of learning from experience, including reentering this Group more aware of how reactive some are. More careful (not pointing out disruptive behavior that those here are aware of and also point out) comments with that in mind have continued converstions with some here, on ideas of common interests.

All of my efforts AS YOU WELL KNOW are based on trying to get people to listen to each other and AT LEAST practice respect.

The only folks attacking now seem to be the ones not reading what I actually wrote and FLAMING anyway, violating every DU Rule.

Insluding people I've never met before going completely off and unhinged.

I respect the Group, I'm interested in a meeting of minds and my mistake is to wish too much that people who are not yet ready == but certainly have much to offer on interesting topics == to share what they know and meet somewhere on common ground.






Civility: Treat other members with respect. Do not post personal attacks against other members of this discussion forum.

Do not publicly accuse another member of this message board of being a disruptor, conservative, Republican, FReeper, or troll, or do not otherwise imply they are not welcome on Democratic Underground.
Do not post personal attacks or engage in name-calling against other individual members of this discussion board. Even very mild personal attacks are forbidden.
Do not hurl insults at other individual members of this message board. Do not tell someone, "shut up," "screw you," "fuck off," "in your face," or some other insult.

[beam me up scottie]

34. Right. You can't wait to go running back to your little pals and brag about how you set us straight.

Your hypocrisy is staggering, you dare lecture us on the rules after having how many threads locked or deleted in your group?

And you can stop pretending that you took the high road, your own words betray you, as do your actions; if skeptics did the same in your group, the collective hissy fit would be heard all the way in the dungeon.

Even if your intentions were honorable you'd still be in way over your head, so do us all a favor and go home.

[omega minimo]

36. If I went "running back" it would be to "brag" that I gave up......

Instead, despite your insistence on continued flaming, some here have shared their ideas and dropped the toxic bravado, allowing some insight rather than just show up to shut others down.

Which is all I advocated for.

I was ready to give up and you can read those posts if you wish.

It's much more gratifying to prove that there IS something behind the dismissive (I'm being polite in respect of feelings in the Group, as I said) behavior.

[Name removed]

38. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[LooseWilly]

75. Wait, what "it"? n/t

[omega minimo]

81. I can't locate the poster who commented on very personal objections to any such "superiority"

claim and I would like to thank them and others here.

If there were any sort of "superiority" concept being presented and associated with some sort of "eugenics" program mentality, it would be important to know that. It would be extremely alarming.

As an overall inference based on misassumptions, not convincing.

As a topic for potential discussion, do we evolve together? As a species? Can we accept that our progression due to whatevr forces are communal?

As and if we evolve (or your preferred word in case that's not the one you prefer) together, is it a cause for defensiveness or mutual development?

Clearly those who have survived holocausts, would be sensitized to the potential concept. Including, by the way, the survivors of The Burning Times.

:toast:

[TZ]

54. Really

So even though all the indigo stuff I read all refer to them being "more evolved" Is wrong? Are you gonna tell me also that the Nazis never claimed to be superior human beings either?

[Name removed]

11. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[LooseWilly]

74. Actually, the OP doesn't claim anyone has any attitudes.

It simply asks how certain attitudes differ from other certain attitudes... and then illustrates a context in which the comparative attitudes are not compatible with the propaganda of what the US stands for.

Hence, there is no need for proof of an attitude, since there is no overt claim that anyone actually has said attitude.

And defensiveness viz. a viz. attitude propagandization suggests a certain defensiveness which I, personally, find suspect... though not incriminating, quite.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

9. I'd say it's less in that it hasn't got a malicious, racist intent.

It's equally stupid. But the Woo woos aren't using it as justification for rounding up normies and putting them in ghettoes.

"If one grows up believing one is superior to others, than eventually one is likely to start feeling entitled to things because one is special and deserve it."

I really don't think "indigo" children are going to grow up feeling superior. I think they're going to grow up realizing that their parent is sick in the head, and they'll probably feel rather embarassed about it.

[LeftishBrit]

44. I agree...

however I wouldn't fully rule out some RW movement hijacking such theories for its own purpose.

[TZ]

62. I don't think its got it YET...

But I think the theory does open the door to being hijacked by those who do have those intents..If you look at the history of anti-semitism in Europe that lead to the Nazi's I find some frightening similarities there.

[beam me up scottie]

41. Any parent who claims their indigo child isn't superior is either lying or grossly ignorant.

And most of them are indeed brought up to believe they are superior to non-indigos/crystals.

[LeftishBrit]

45. Interesting thread...

and my iggy list has become more evolved; it's got two people on it now instead of one!

[beam me up scottie]

47. You're just a hater.

The fact that you have two whole people on ignore proves that you're really a dark-worker. :evilgrin:

[mr blur]

51. Hey, mine too!

Possibly the same two...

[TZ]

55. This thread proves my hyppthesis

If the woos weren't convinced they were superior they wouldn't feel the need to DISRUPT and antagonize in a GROUP also proves that despite claims to the contrary it's the woos who don't like rational discussion---Woos are DU's fundies--they think that declaring it so makes it so and woe to anyone who challenges their attitude . It's also apparant that their knowledge of evolution is much like creationists--? Superficial at best

[beam me up scottie]

58. HERE I AM TO SAVE THE DAY!

Persecution is as much a part of their belief system/fantasy as it is christianity. Their pathetic need to make spectacles of themselves must be some sort of ritual.

Beat me, Sue! Harder, make me bleed, uh uh uh!

:rofl:

[TZ]

60. Somebody used the word jihad

That is very very accurate.god forbid us evil shills question their beliefs

[beam me up scottie]

63. One would think it would be brave for one to come in here picking fights.

Until they realized it was all about attention whoring and hero complexes, that is.

I wonder why none of her people showed up to help her? I mean, she is saving them from us, is she not?

[Odin2005]

124. You can't have a rational discussion with someone who refuses to adopt a rationalist attitude.

It's that simple.

[Name removed]

61. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Random_Australian]

64. Two things about the idea of some people being 'more evolved' bother me.

Of course, the fact that 'more evolved' makes no sense if you know anything about evolution and biology grates on my nerves, but the real problem I have with it is the 'special people' don't have to do a damn thing to earn greater than normal respect.

You are damn right in saying it is akin to judging people on their genes. Because it is.

[omega minimo]

66. Yes, we attempted discussing that earlier in thread

[Random_Australian]

67. I'm for attemping again. You seem to respond to potshots versus the indigos, so I'll start there.

In that you seem interesting in the topic. I'm not interested in trolling.

The absence of reliable testing for indigo-ness means that it is not meaningful to apply such a label; and as such, allows people to claim superiority without earning such a thing.

For instance, before we have extremely standardised tests for mental illness, while there was influence from the world at large, the actual diagnosis came down to more what a person thought corresponded to mental illness than anything else.

This applied to a lesser extent to people being declared dead before there were standards for that, too, for a more concrete example. Obviously, the real world had more of an influence there, though.

Clearly, without reliable testing for someone being 'indigo', and the claims of superior abilities that go along with it, near anyone can declare - with equal right as anyone else - that their child or themselves is of superior nature. Now, without organistion it is unlikely to go further than that, but it is still arrogance and something I would not like to see promoted.

What say you?

[TZ]

68. Bravo

:applause:

[omega minimo]

69. I'm sorry

As you can see, it's way too late to continue. I was advocating for our right to have rational discussion sans flames, but the tribe has spoken

Cheers then, maybe in another lifetime :toast:

[uppityperson]

104. You finally get a chance for a serious discussion, and you say "I won't now"

Wild

[beam me up scottie]

65. Indigo/crystal woofers believe they're superior/more evolved because they read it on teh internets.

WHAT ARE INDIGO AND CRYSTAL CHILDREN AND ADULTS?:

We will describe the main features and characteristics of these people. But we want to stress that the Indigo/Crystal phenomenon is the next step in our evolution as a human species. We are all, in some way, becoming more like the Indigo and Crystal people. They are here to show us the way, and so the information can be applied more generally to all of us as we make the transition to the next stage of our growth and evolution.

The Indigo Children have been incarnating on the Earth for the last 100 years. The early Indigos were pioneers and wayshowers. After World War II, a significant number were born, and these are the Indigo adults of today. However, in the 1970s a major wave of Indigos was born, and so we have a whole generation of Indigos who are now in their late twenties and early thirties who are about to take their place as leaders in the world. Indigos continued to born up to about 2000, with increasing abilities and degrees of technological and creative sophistication.

The Crystal Children began to appear on the planet from about 2000, although some date them slightly earlier. These are extremely powerful children, whose main purpose is to take us to the next level in our evolution, and reveal to us our inner power and divinity. They function as a group consciousness rather than as individuals, and they live by the" Law of One" or Unity Consciousness. They are a powerful force for love and peace on the
planet.

much more to gag on http://www.starchild.co.za/what.html">here.

This bullshit actually contradicts the original bullshit written by the creator of the term "indigo child", Nancy Ann Tappe.

Since then, countless others have cashed in on this cow since it was first milked, Lee Carrol even wrote a book about them. Here's an excerpt from Q&A section of their website:

QUESTION: Dear Kryon, would you please tell me if Indigo Children and Star Children are the same? Can someone born in the 1960’s be an Indigo?

ANSWER: Dear Human, don't get bogged within your linearity in these things. You wish to compartmentalize everything, and thereby feel more comfortable in your understanding. Know this: All children being born on the planet have strong potential to be of the Indigo consciousness. Within that group there are many parts and attributes. What you have called a "Star Child" is a type of Indigo. The same goes for the "Crystal Children."

Years ago we identified a new breed of Human that was slowly being introduced to earth. Now they are so plentiful that many are beginning to notice and categorize them. Our admonition is NOT to, but we know that sometimes make you feel better to do so. Another name for these "Star Children" are the Interdimensional or even the Interplanetary, if you wish.

As far as the potential of those born before or during the 1960's: The answer is yes, but with a qualification. The "pure" Indigo Children have really only been arriving slowly for the past 25 or 30 years, but there are many who have what we call an "Indigo overlay." This is Human who fits the generalizations, but without some of the absolutes that are buried in what you call the DNA that really qualify this new Human experience.
— Kryon

:rofl:

Of course you don't need to channel ancient disembodied entities from other dimensions in order to get rich by lying to parents who just know THEIR children are special, you don't even need to be intelligent or informed, if Jenny McCarthy can invent her own reality, anyone can:

The day I found out I was an adult Indigo will stay with me forever. I was walking hand in hand with my son down a Los Angeles street when this women approached me and said, "You’re an Indigo and your son is a Crystal." I immediately replied, "Yes!" and the woman smiled at me and walked away. I stood there for a moment, because I had no idea what the heck an Indigo and Crystal was, but I seemed so sure of it when I had blurted out "Yes!" After doing some of my own research on the word Indigo, I realized not only was I an early Indigo but my son was in fact a Crystal child. From that point on things in my life started to make sense.

Our trolls are indigos, they believe that we exist only to cater to their vanity posts.

[LostinVA]

70. It isn't -- it's 100% the basis of Eugenics (Good OP!)

A oh so "wonderful" "scientific" theory that the US created and the Nazis perfected.

Claiming ANY group is superior or more evolved is extremely distasteful and has no place in this nation. This thought process has done nothing but leave death, horror, and tragedy in its wake, no matter what package it's wrapped in.

[omega minimo]

76. We all evolve

(thank you for this opportunity to respectfully and sincerely post in this group and open to the possibility of being read and considered relevant, in the interest of the ripple effect and health of the whole community)

Ironic:

Your praise of the OP when you floated the "eugenics" notion before TZ did.

The perpetuation of the "superior" attitude that no one on DU AFAIK has stated, except detractors who want to shut down discussion.

The vitriolic reaction to the use of the word "Indigo" descriptively in an OP title, the firestorm and reactionary mayhem it has set off and the rational discussion that firestorm has prevented.

The shock that anyone would see the evolution of humans on a group level -- undeniably the species changes over time, due to education, diet, etc. -- would be seen as an affront to anyone, rather than something for all of us to consider.

The comparison of a matter of group/human consciousness to Nazis, eugenics, and a "thought process has done nothing but leave death, horror, and tragedy in its wake, no matter what package it's wrapped in."

Maybe that is not actually the thought process relevant to the evolution of humans on a group level, eh?

That would be very interesting to discuss.

If that was possible.

Again, I was shocked that the notion that we evolve as a species was so offensive to some at DU. At no time has there been any intention on my part or any post I have seen (except by detractors) to claim that the changes in our group evolution are an attack on anyone, or an inference of "superior/inferior".

I don't like hokum either. I didn't know that the word was so highly charged when I used it descriptively for a young child who obviously was extraordinarily observant of his surroundings.

I hope the term "extraordinarily observant of his surroundings" is not considered offensive or genocidal in any way and I hope that child grows up in an atmosphere that allows him and others to reach their full potential.

:thumbsup:

[TZ]

77. Hahahaha

You REALLY should stay away from those technical terms like "evolution" since clearly you have no idea what is means..you flunk biology 101! Hellyou flunk HS biology too while I am at it. Darwin would be rolling in his grave. I suggest you read about a little thing called DNA and eugenics
People here generally have a minimal knowledge of science to debate a psuedoscience. If you lack a knowledge of even BASIC knowledge then you really have no place here. Honestly you and others who don't understand what evolution is illustrate why this country is falling behind the rest of the world in science and math

[omega minimo]

79. and after all that

would you be willing to share your superior wisdom? Including what your point is?

In the interest of whatever superior criteria would make elevated discussion on DU possible?

Thank you,

[TZ]

95. My point is your total little exposition on us all "evolving"

is bullshit. First of all evolution takes thousands of years, isn't observable and for humans isn't as great a pressure as it used to be. Evolutionary forces result from environmental pressures. Considering human beings now are the only species that CONTROL their environment, thats not going to happen very quickly. Cultural forces are the big pressure on human behavior now and that has nothing to do with evolution. Your whole group conciousness group evolution nonsense is little better than a creationists fairy tale...you believe its true therefore it MUST be true. Oy.
I'm serious when I say you DON'T know what evolution is...Its a change in the frequency of genes or alleles over time...And here's where my point is...You are suggesting that indigos are a DIFFERENT and SUPERIOR genetic type than other humans therefore more evolved. The idea of genetic superiority has been pushed by every evil racist regime on this planet. So the indigo bullshit is as bad as the white supremicist that claims whites are inherently smarter and better ADAPTED to running the planet. Sound familiar?
Indigo children right now is fairly harmless social darwinism but it could become quite nasty if the right people with agendas hijacked it, and in this society today, I find that likely

[omega minimo]

98. Sorry, never have

"You are suggesting that indigos are a DIFFERENT and SUPERIOR genetic type than other humans therefore more evolved."

Never have. :shrug:

[TZ]

99. PSST...

FROM YOUR OWN FUCKING POST IN GD>>>
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=247&topic_id=23209&mesg_id=23586

[beam me up scottie]

80. But Kryon says we CAN CHANGE OUR OWN DNA!

Why do you think that you, a mere human scientist, knows more than a being from a higher dimension, a disembodied entity of a different order than human, who has "been with the Earth since the beginning"? He is here to help humans "ascend to a higher vibrational level".

Beat this, Scientist!:

(2) QUESTION: Dear Kryon: You've said that there is power in voicing the Hebrew names of the DNA dimensions you are revealing. Can we activate the consciousness of this DNA within us by voicing a prayer or chant? Is this how the voicing should be used?


ANSWER: All the Hebrew characters and many of the names of God in Hebrew have energy connected with them. When spoken, they carry an energy that Gaia responds to. (By the way, voicing the Lemurian language would be even better if you knew it.)

But these things are not really needed for any Human to become enlightened, or for any Human to activate their DNA or move to another level. They simply are part of a massive tool box of energetic attributes that are on Earth to help you in your balance.

The only reason DNA would respond to any sound at all that you make, in any language, is because of the intent you place around it. No character or word in any language has a power of its own. The voicing of any word is powerful when combined with what you know about it, what it means in that language, and what it means to you. I know this is not what some wish to hear about these things, for there are many who establish energetic attributes to words and tones all by themselves. As though you might we walking along minding your own business, hear one of these, and be affected.

The real science behind toning ancient words reveals that true power comes when you combine the toning with a consciousness of action. So it’s really a meditation technique and not just saying a sound that is going to somehow magically help you.

So the answer is that these things indeed talk to the DNA when sounded out and spoken. But it must be accompanied with intent. All toning is this way, and you can receive benefit both in listening only, and in participating, as long as your intent is placed correctly.

The most powerful sounds being given today are derived from the ancient ones, even older than the Hebrew. These sounds were developed for your biology by those who could “see into the DNA,” and therefore knew what would best balance you.

So the answer to “how” is given yet again… with intent!

(18) QUESTION: Dear inspiritmagazine-team, I recently performed the DNA changing process mentioned on Jan Tober's homepage. How do I know whether it worked or not, because all I experienced were some sleepless nights?


ANSWER: Here's a spiritual postulate - an absolute: Any time you do a process when you involve pure intent, the process is accomplished. What's difficult it that you have no interdimensional guide lines to "see" what took place. You're used to feedback in 3D, and there is very little of this kind of proof in spiritual things. The sleepless nights should have been a good indicator that something was happening.

Now do the rest. This activation is a balancing that enables you to move forward more easily. Are you waiting for something? Or are your guides now waiting for something? You have knocked on the door and are waiting for a return knock for proof. Instead, why don't you just open the door and walk through it?

QUESTION (7): Dear Kryon, in my work, I actually look at the DNA of Human Beings - the chromosomes - which are the visible manifestations of our DNA. You’ve said that there will be changes in the DNA as it’s activated to higher vibrations. Will I be able to "see" these changes? I’d love to be able to detect the changes and know that they are the activations and not some abnormality.

ANSWER: Physically: Those of you who actually study the pieces and parts of DNA won’t see many physical changes. The changes we speak about are interdimensional. However, for those unbelievers who say, "How convenient," we say this: Even though you may not see physical structure changes, the chemistry itself will change. Immune systems will strengthen, life expectancy will lengthen, genes may rearrange themselves, and other systems will seem to be on a new track. So you’ll be able to see the results of something else seemingly affecting the 4D layer of DNA (the Human Genome). When you finally get the instruments that can detect interdimensionality (the shadows of other realities), you’ll see it very clearly around our DNA. This will beg the question: "Is there more to DNA than what’s under the 4D microscope?"

[AZCat]

82. What. The. Fuck.

That's just bizarre. And ignorant.

[Orrex]

83. And stolen from Umberto Eco, I'd venture to say

He talks about the alteration of DNA via Hebrew in Foucault's Pendulum.


Of course, that's a work of fiction, and the guy who thinks he's actually altered his DNA is a bit nuts at that point, so...

[AZCat]

84. I read some whacked-out science fiction back in the day...

but eventually I realized that the "fiction" part of the label was more descriptive than the "science" part. Nothing against science fiction - it's just loony to think it's real.

[beam me up scottie]

85. Bizarre. Ignorant. And a gold mine. That's just the tip of the proverbial iceberg.

Here is a list of books from Kryon (of course ancient disembodied entities can't really write, they have to channel through a human)

Kryon Book 1 - The End Times - 1993
Kryon Book 2 - Don't Think Like a Human - 1994
Kryon Book 3 - Alchemy of the Human Spirit - 1995
Kryon Book 4 - The Parables of Kryon - 1996
Kryon Book 5 - The Journey Home - 1997
Kryon Book 6 - Partnering With God - 1997
Kryon Book 7 - Letters From Home - 1999
Kryon Indigo Book 1 - The Indigo Children - 1999
Kryon Book 8 - Passing the Marker - 2000
Kryon Indigo Book 2 - An Indigo Celebration - 2001
Kryon Book 9 - The New Beginning - 2002
Kryon Book 10 - A New Dispensation - 2004


I have no idea why those nasty old skeptics ridicule the idea of indigo/crystal children, it's obvious that these texts are more valuable than anything in the piddly little Library of Congress.

[AZCat]

86. Shilling for disembodied entities must be pretty lucrative...

if Kryon's representative has managed to get ten books published. I'm guessing this isn't the only revenue stream being tapped, either.

[beam me up scottie]

88. Check it out, it's a freakin' empire.

http://kryon.com/altindex.html

This guy has something to say about everything from AIDS in Africa:

Q: Dear Kryon, as the Universe transforms in this period of ascension/transition, why does it appear that little spiritual attention is focused on the African continent? While there has certainly been a religious awakening largely due to the circumstances that souls choose (for example, poverty, HIV/AIDS, etc.), this is being translated quite slowly into spirituality (my perception).
What is your information on the state of spiritual awakening on the African continent?

A: Dear one, this question is perhaps the best one you could have asked for your time. Indeed, it appears that the African situation is dichotomous to an awakening Earth. For a full explanation, you have to go back to information we presented 12 years ago . We told you back then that there was a potential that showed that in order for your planet to move forward at the rate it was appearing to, up to one percent of the population might have to leave. This was startling information to most of you, and some wondered how and where this might begin. A disaster, perhaps? A comet strike? Now, as you know, the Humans on the African continent are currently losing their lives by the tens of millions. In addition, the life expectancy is bleak for at least the next decade . . . perhaps the next full generation! Your disease called AIDS is seemingly fulfilling this prophecy.

Revolting, isn't it?



to X-rays used in Law enforcement:

(25) QUESTION: Dear Kryon, I work in law enforcement and we have an x-ray truck called a VACIS. To control it’s speed, there’s a large magnet on the transmission, and it requires two people to be inside the truck all day. I feel somewhat out of balance when I spend any amount of time in it. I’ve since removed myself from working in it, but occasionally I have to fill in. My questions are: What kind of effect is this technology having on my physical body, and what can I do to protect myself from any damaging effects? Would a Q-Link pendant be enough?

ANSWER: Dear one, this is a very dangerous place to be. The product you mentioned isn’t sufficient to void this kind of strong magnetic field. It’s designed more for common environmental magnetic challenges. If you have to spend time in this vehicle, make it short and as infrequent as you can.

Also be aware that unless you spend most of your time there, your body can recover and adjust very well. So don’t despair that your job might require you do it occasionally. Just as in an MRI machine, your body has an incredible memory for balance, and will come back to its natural state of magnetic balance when you remove yourself from the field. It’s only those who remain in these fields day after day who are truly in a state of danger. When a body is continually deprived of its balancing tools, it goes into dis-ease, which is a prime ingredient for early death.

[omega minimo]

87. If you didn't have the scapegoat, you'd have more time to spend constructively

[beam me up scottie]

89. Like you spend yours- trolling for attention in groups where you're not welcome? No thanks.

I prefer to research cults and snake oil salesmen and post the information in the appropriate group.

Your intent is obviously to disrupt since you've attacked everyone who disagreed with you, and refused to read the references provided by the skeptics in this group (which you DEMANDED repeatedly).

This isn't WooWooLand, in this group you're expected to back up your claims with evidence.

You should go back to your echo chamber, you know absolutely nothing about the subject in the op and it's painfully obvious that you're way out of your league.

[omega minimo]

90. OIC

Jabba

Your skewed version of reality is truly unique

[mr blur]

94. I have rarely encounter such stupidity as yours. You're really pissing me off.

Watching you reveal your endless arrogance and ignorance has become boring. Welcome to Ignore (where, I'm sure, you are no stranger).

[muriel_volestrangler]

96. 'The perpetuation of the "superior" attitude that no one on DU AFAIK has stated' - you did yourself

Little Prince Indigo Child at Tattoo Parlor Art Show Embarrasses Hipster Dad

There was this amazing child.
...
He looked like a prince, a serene Bodhisattva.
...
The child was wise beyond our years.
...
He is the future.

He was a prince.

He was magnificent.

What shall we do with these children born into this world now?

Shall we set aside our own embarrassed unworthiness and see them for what they are?

Shall we forgive ourselves -- unready as we are -- in order to honor each other and the geniuses being born into our midst?

http://www.democraticunderground.org/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=5061451&mesg_id=5061451

Please, don't pretend that calling a child 'magnificent', a 'prince', a 'genius', and the rest of us 'unworthy', 'unready' and having to think about 'forgiving ourselves' isn't calling indigo children 'superior'. It plainly is.

You may think we're fools, but we're not.

[trotsky]

97. First, individual organisms do not evolve.

So your subject line - "We all evolve" - is false.

Second, evolution occurs due to gene mutations. Sometimes these mutations are harmful, sometimes they are quite beneficial. Sometimes a mutation that is extremely helpful in one environment is fatal in another. Have any of the Indigo charlatans proposed which gene(s) are involved with Indigo-ism?

Third, it is NOT evolution when a species "changes" over time "due to education, diet, etc."

I think a lot of the reaction you have gotten here is due to your colossal ignorance of what exactly evolution IS and what it is NOT. Worse, you express no desire to even try to understand it - you just keep repeating the same uninformed nonsense.

[Orrex]

100. A standard tactic of woo-thinking is to co-opt scientific terminology

The intent is to give the woo-topic an air of validity by putting it on the same level as whatever science it steals its terminology from. But then, when pressed on the matter, woo-thinkers will eventually concede that they're speaking metaphorically or allusively.

Witness "chi," which is invariably described as energy. But this magical energy apparently isn't made of photons and have anything in common with actual energy.

I suspect that the use of "evolution" in this context is doing the same thing: trying to make a nonsensical proposition sound more reasonable, even though the so-called "evolution" has nothing to do with the actual process.


Of course, the Sokal Hoax demonstrated the phenomenon of terminolgy-theft (and people's eagerness to embrace the theft) much more adroitly than can be conveyed in a DU post.

[uppityperson]

105. Jargon is meant to be confusing and impart a feeling of awe and impressiveness

If you can't understand, if it is that confusing, it must be important.

"mystical, overwhelming, you are so wise" sort of stuff.

[Odin2005]

125. Don't forget the woos hijacking quantum mechanics without understanding of QM.

Unfortunately most popular notions of QM are woo-derived misunderstandings of the science, something on sees every time some woo-influenced "philosophers" like Rickard Tarnas opens their mouths.

[SidDithers]

131. #7 and #10...

7. Memorize all the sci-babble terms used in the Star Trek series. They are very useful if you get cornered by a skeptic, and you need to come up with some sort of "scientific" explanation. e.g., Inertial Dampers.

and

10 Use the word quantum in a sentence, despite not knowing what it means. For a more impressive effect, use it with the name of your favorite superstition - "quantum dowsing" sure sounds mighty serious.

:)

Sid

[Odin2005]

71. OK, settle down children! no need to keep flaming each other.

:banghead:

[beam me up scottie]

91. "there is a gap between the brain and the skull. Obviously an evolutionary step"

From http://www.experiencefestival.com/a/Indigo_Children/id/222753">Indigo Children: Warrior of the Heart - The Way of Crystal Peacemaker

Crystal Children represent the next step in human evolution. They follow the Indigo Children. Their mission is to complete the work begun by the Indigos. Where the Indigo Children are "Systems Busters", and come to dismantle and remove old and limiting ways of thinking, the Crystal Children have come to begin the process of renewal and rebuilding.

The Primary Mission of a Crystal Child is to teach the ways of Multi-Dimensional Living - in Harmony, Peace and Love. They have come to teach us how to live Empowered Lives. They have come to help us to reconnect with the Divine Feminine energies. They represent the future path of the Human Race.

And one of their most magical gifts to us is that they are serving as catalysts for our evolution. Many Indigo Children and Adults are transitioning into the Crystal state with the help of the energetic "lift" that the Crystal Children provide by their very presence on the Earth at this time. They are, together with the Indigo Children, helping to "power" the Ascension process of Planet Earth.

But Angela's life story is interesting, and demonstrates some of the challenges faced by Crystal Children and their parents. She was born late, at 38 weeks, and her mother had to be induced. She was a colicky baby, but otherwise normal. However, when Angela was ten months old her mother landed up in hospital for 5 days and had to have minor surgery. On the fourth day, Angela, who was at home with a caregiver, had a seizure. She was diagnosed as epileptic, but all her EEG's have been normal. After that she had an average of one grand mal seizure a week, although she could sometimes have three in one day.

It appears that Angela was very connected to her mother, and the overload of pain or electrical energy that Linda was experiencing in hospital was transmitted to Angela and it "blew" her system. The overload of energy manifesting as a seizure. And once she had been overstimulated in this way, the energy just kept pouring in.

Angela eventually outgrew the seizures, but she had another one at six years, when she had to have an operation to have her tonsils out. Again the pain energy was too much for her system. She has complained of headaches and "buzzing" noises in her head since then, which seem to be an indication to me that she is able to "hear" the energies moving through her.

Linda had a brain scan done to check that there was no serious problem relating to Angela's persistent headaches. The scan was normal, but showed that Angela's skull is relatively too big, and that there is a gap between the brain and the skull. Obviously an evolutionary step, as the species provides either for more brain capacity, or for a larger skull to "carry" the heavier and larger energies of the subtle bodies in a multi-dimensional being.

[mr blur]

92. What absolute bullshit! (nt)

[moggie]

112. That's pretty sad

The child has health problems, and the mother deals with it by retreating into fantasy. I can sympathise with the mother, even while thinking that she's responding in a dumb way.

[beam me up scottie]

114. True.

But her mother's response is more than just dumb, her fantasies could prove to be one burden too many for that poor child.

[mr blur]

93. Yeah but if we don't become Indigo we'll never be invited to join The Federation

and meet Klingons and stuff. :shrug:

[Djinn]

101. I should read threads in total before posting

bloody hell I thought I'd come across some bizarro nonsense before but this indigo thingie seems even more insane than usual - why am I surprised the nutso's have surpassed homeopathy etc with this stuff?

Why am I also surprised that people who can not back up their arguments always resort to "wah you are a bigot because you call my IDEAS bullshit"?

It is not and never has been bigoted to object to/disagree with or even find hilarious the BELIEFS of another person.

Presumably if one does believe in this indigo shit (or any other woo woo nonsense - as a newbie to this sub group I think it's a great word and one I'll use more often) then you'd be bigoted against ME.

Attacking an idea is not attacking a person. If someone can not engage in debate about their BELIEFS (as opposed to ethnicity/sexuality/gender) without screeching "bigot" it's a pretty good sign it's not worth the effort debating them.

I can argue/debate with people for hours about my personal political beliefs (anarcho-syndicalist if anyones interested) most of my friends (including all the lefties) completely disagree with me and consider my views impossible to apply and wishful thinking - that AINT an attack against ME

[beam me up scottie]

102. It's like she wants woo to be recognized as a religion so that no one can criticize them.

Years of practice on DU has made her a consummate professional victim.

[Djinn]

103. even if it were it definitely wouldn't stop me criticising them

If people can have at my political beliefs (and most do despite very few actually understanding them) then I can have at their sky god beliefs. Never viewed religion as exempt from criticism.

[beam me up scottie]

106. Exactly, no religious beliefs are off limits on DU, just ask scientologists.

She went too far when she said woo woos were the "new faggots" (her words, not mine).

If anyone wants to attack my lack of belief in gods and pseudoscience, I say go for it.

I'm glad you joined us, Djinn. :)

[bluedawg12]

108. When there are no facts to support a position then they resort to the personal level

either they are being attacked personally or they attack their opponents personally.

There is an old saying in law.

When the law is in your favor, pound the law.

When the facts are in your favor, pound the facts.

When neither the law nor facts are in your favor, pound the expert.

When facts and reason fail, resort to bringing the debate back to a "me and you" level of debate. :eyes:

[CanSocDem]

109. The 'religion' of science....

....with all of its' weird beliefs and fanatical followers should also be debatable.

"If anyone wants to attack my lack of belief in gods and pseudoscience, I say go for it."


Sure you do.....:rofl:

.

[Orrex]

110. I love it when people refer to the 'religion of science'

Because it means that they have no understanding of religion or science.

First of all, science is at its core debatable because there is no premise that is wholly beyond dispute. That doesn't mean that every fact is equally up for grabs, but it does mean that any principle can be revised, amended, or abandoned if sufficient evidence can be presented to justify the revision, amendment, or abandonment.

Second, when someone bases his reasoning on some a sort of "reality is what you believe" gobbledygook, that person has little credibility when squawking about the "'religion' of science," whatever that might even mean.

[beam me up scottie]

113. I'm surprised Nurse Ratchet lets him access teh internets.

Exposure to reality, even in small doses, obviously agitates him.

That would explain the lapses in posting, he has to wait until they let him out of restraints.

[Orrex]

115. Or he has to sleep off the headache resulting from the pillow-induced snooze

[CanSocDem]

119. I hate it when people don't understand...

...the importance of belief. It shows that they have no understanding of the 'nature of reality'.

"Because it means that they have no understanding of religion or science."


Not quite true, but I will admit, in my own case, to discovering the flaws in "science", before they were evident to me, in "religion".

That, however, was NOT the end of my quest. If not "science" or "religion", what then?? Obviously, any thinking person would have to conclude that it was about "beliefs"......

...and if you have ever spoken to the truly deluded, you will know that changing their mind may not be worth the effort, if even possible.

Anyway, I'm way beyond worrying about the power of "science" and "religion". I have learned that I give them whatever 'power' they have. I have learned that it is ALL about "beliefs". But I do take exception to the way this forum BULLIES the gentle souls who are also beyond the limiting effects of science and religion and are opening to new belief systems that EMPOWER their lives.

It's all about challenging ineffective belief systems.

.

[TZ]

120. And I hate fundies

Who claim they have all the answers based on belief. Would you like to tell me how your beliefs differ from Pat Robertson and his ilk who claim he has all the answers based on HIS BELIEFS? You can't. Cause their is no difference between the fundies who insist that the world is 6000 years old and your beliefs that you know the nature of reality.
You are arrogant and narrow minded and ignorant and your attitude that WE who insistant on rationality and proof before we accept something as fact are bullies is tiresome at best. As for the gentle souls bullshit..you certainly are a hypocrite there considering the nasty things you have said UNPROVOKED to members of this forum.

[CanSocDem]

122. With me it's ...

...people who don't see irony even when it is slappin' them in the head.

" Would you like to tell me how your beliefs differ from Pat Robertson and his ilk who claim he has all the answers based on HIS BELIEFS?"

You don't understand the word "belief", do you. This is what I meant earlier when I said 'you weren't educated...'

You remember, you got all huffy and wanted me to explain one of your beliefs.

Claiming that I have blamed people for their own health problems is inflammatory bullshit. But you don't understand that either. Give it a rest.

A science bigot is still a bigot.

.

[cosmik debris]

123. "people who don't see irony even when it is slappin' them in the head"

Like the irony of a faith healer posting in the skeptics group?

:rofl:

[TZ]

128. Nope YOU ARE THE SELF ADMITTED BIGOT

with your hatred and dislike of health care professionals without a clue what they do or how biology really works.
Please explain how I make my own reality cause I believe it is any different from evolution doesn''t happen cause the Bible tells me so! You don't understand the scientific method. You think you are the only sane one and everyone else is crazy (lack of objectivity) sorry but its the other way around. You said I got myself sick because I wanted to..when you clearly don't understand what carcinogenic exposure does to genes, otherwise you would NEVER have made an assinine statement like that.
Ignorance is NOT bliss and you coming in here with your nonsense serves no purpose except to disrupt. I am not the idiotic bigoted ignorant wanna be bully (I say wanna be cause you are getting pwned over and over again and don't even have the wit to see it)
You sir are welcome to believe whatever nonsense you want. But to keep attacking science as a "religion" when you can't even distinguish between reality and delusion is sadly pathetic.
Why do you come here except to be nasty? I come here to have intellectual discussions which you do not add to AT ALL.

[Orrex]

126. You keep making the same mistake

Science is not a belief system. In fact, it is the opposite of a belief system, and it's designed to eliminate the role of "belief" as much as possible, expressly because "belief" is such a terrible tool for explaining anything in a verifiable, falsifiable way.

That's why a phrase like "the religion of science" is absurd and comical to those who actually do understand the difference.


While I have you on the line, what the heck does it mean to be "beyond the limiting effects of science and religion?"

And plenty of belief systems "EMPOWER" the believers, but that doesn't make them true or accurate or healthy. You're not about "challenging ineffective belief systems" at all; you're about portraying yourself as some sort of enlightened spirit who's seen the true face of the world and are hoping to share the good news with us poor drones.


Thanks, but I've seen what you're selling a thousand times over, and it sounds like crap every time.

[CanSocDem]

127. As do you.

"Science is not a belief system..."

To many, neither is 'religion'. It's a lifestyle.

Everything comes from prayer.

For someone believing only in science, god knows where their(your) stuff comes from.


"...what the heck does it mean to be "beyond the limiting effects of science and religion?"

Science says there are no magical cures and calling out to Jesus isn't helping; people that appreciate life keep looking to sustain it, and keeping away from those institutions that exist to re-inforce your unhappiness, is only good sense.

[Orrex]

129. You just get wackier and wackier.

I can't decide whether to put you on Ignore or to keep reading your zany musings.


Decisions, decisions...

[WoodrowFan]

134. Ignore

eh, try ignore. I did. If I want to hear the rantings of a severely mentally ill person I can always read freekrepublic or go listen to the crazy woman who wanders the streets of my town ranting about whatever....

[TZ]

111. Weird beliefs and fanatical followers

DING that's you blockhead! Want to tell me how you are different from a fundie again cause that's exactly how they argue about evolution

[beam me up scottie]

116. Let's pretend you are capable of learning the difference between woo and science.

Just for a minute, I don't want you to strain yourself. This simple example should be easy to comprehend, even for you:

A picture of a person loved and respected for her weird beliefs by woos' fanatical followers:

A picture of a person loved and respected for his "weird beliefs" by fanatical scientists:

http://narrativeoversight.com/gallery/d/366-1/Carl+Sagan.jpg

Was that simple enough for you or do I have to break out the crayons and construction paper again?

[salvorhardin]

117. OK, what do you think?

No holds barred, prison fight. Who wins? Sylvia Browne or Jan Crouch?


I say Jan Crouch. You don't know what she's hiding in that hair.

[beam me up scottie]

118. Cage match?

Sylvia, no question. She is not just a liar with a cult following, she also has the disposition of a rabid hippopotamus.

[Heddi]

121. And she has the Pink Beehive Shag Mullet of DEATHHHHHH

under which she hides her awesome power of righteousness and Wrath. God don't be fancin' women with plain hair-dids.

[salvorhardin]

132. Hey gang. Please don't give the hateful bigot a stage.

The poster you're arguing against is beyond hope. It's a mean-spirited, religious fundamentalist playing the same old one-note tune. By responding to it you're just giving it the stage it craves to spread its hate and ignorance. Just report its posts or put it on ignore. It's certainly not here to discuss anything in a respectful manner so take away the one thing it desires -- attention. Believe me, this one is transparently moronic and no one takes anything it says seriously, so why should you?