Birth is a natural process and therefore its safe!

[TZ]

Only the evil hospitals are covering that knowledge up. Because women only die in childbirth because of teh evil doctors.
:banghead:
God the stupidity sometimes....

[JitterbugPerfume]

1. birth is a natural process

and so is death , as women and babies from earlier times could tell us. Those evil Doctors are why so many of us reached old age.

[uppityperson]

2. Often you don't need a hospital or doctor working on you when giving birth

if you do, it is great to be there and have one. If you don't, they can cause complications.

No one right answer for everyone every time.

God the stupidity sometimes...

[WhollyHeretic]

3. I started typing a few replies in that thread but decided I didn't feel like dealing with the stupid

The study itself had a couple of problems.

-The home birth group is self-selected which skews it off the bat
-It studied home birth and hospital birth with a midwife. How about hospital birth with a doctor?

The inevitable ramblings about "they only want you moneys!!!" and "you only think it's dangerous because doctors told you so" were headache inducing. I guess giving birth was such a peaceful and low risk thing before there were hospitals. :eyes:

[CreekDog]

4. A friend used a midwife to deliver their first baby and she was in labor for over 24 hours

the soon to be parents were concerned something might be wrong but the midwife told them, "it's work, that's why it's called labor".

they ended up going to the hospital, no thanks to the midwife.

not all midwives are like that, but this attempted to make them feel guilty when something really was wrong.

they said, "never again".

[uppityperson]

5. A friend used a doctor to deliver their first baby and was in labor for 6 hours

the doctor wanted to get that baby delivered and go home so they gave her pitocin to "stimulate the contractions" and then almost had to do a c-section due to fetal distress. My friend got ripped up inside, needed to get repair work done on her urethra later since it was injured due to the doctor's actions.

they said, "never again" and had their second also in a hospital but with a much more watchful doctor and midwife team


There are all sorts of stories and no one right answer for everyone.

[Djinn]

6. that depends

There are all sorts of stories and no one right answer for everyone.

In Australia this is a hot button issue right now because the Fed govt is making homebirth midwives be insured as of (I think) July next year, given the insurance would be prohibitive the hippies are up in arms.

I'm all for choice in childbirth but not at my expense. In Australia it's taxpayers who'll pay if your child ends up with a developmental disability and needs round the clock care for life because of a complicated birth. In a nation with no social compact and no national health care I'd be happy for people to give birth in caves if that's what they want but the fact of the matter is that home births have a MUCH MUCH higher proportion of deaths/severe complications (hence no insurer willing to cover) and I view it much the same as Australians not having the "right" to drive without a seatbelt, and for the same reason. WE ALL end up paying for your decision.

[uppityperson]

9. Screening and continual evaluation is needed. I would like to see

midwives and birthing centers and doctors and hospitals working closely together since there are good reasons for each of them. And there are "bad" practitioners in all those groups.

We have few md's who will do births in my small town, because of the prohibitive insurance issue.

I have many friends and family who have had babies, and several friends who are nurses, doctors, and a couple midwives. Most of them feel the strong need for whomever is doing whatever to seriously not overestimate themselves, to be aware of what is going on and seek assistance at all times. Some of the doctors like having midwives working with them, as they can spend more time helping and monitoring the laboring woman.

One doctor I used to work for, delivered many many babies, had to get out of it since he didn't charge enough to cover the insurance cost. Was a true humanitarian doc. Paid all of his employees less than most, but then he did also take home much less, since he charged much less, according to what someone could pay. We sometimes got crab in trade, which was nice though.

Edited to add, I have 1 child, gave birth in a hospital having to fight the nurse since I didn't proceed "as I should" with regular contractions gradually and regularly getting closer together. I am also a nurse who has worked in labor, rarely in delivery, yrs back.

[progressoid]

7. Lots of things are a natural process

Cancer, hepatitis, gonorrhea, etc.

Good old mother nature! :)

[LeftishBrit]

8. Not to mention various products provided by good old Mother Nature...

E.g. hemlock, monkshood, deadly nightshade, poisonous toadstools, cobras, rattlesnakes, etc.

I think I suggested before that our urban upbringing makes us less aware that Nature can sometimes kill you. Modern urban children get taught about the danger of traffic, but not toadstools; and may end up with the sentimental idea that natural = safe.

If it comes to that, biological warfare generally involves use of 'natural' germs in an attempt to kill people. Anthrax is perfectly natural, but that doesn't make it a good idea.

[uppityperson]

10. Took a tour of a daycare yrs back, checking out for Jr and noticed the gardening

Lots of pretty digitalis (foxglove) and the like, waiting for the darling little kids to pick and put in their mouths. Jr stayed there for a 2 hr trial later, cried the whole time and never went back. The owner ended up in some legal trouble for shooting someone (while out camping), was an odd situation.

She didn't know that plants could hurt anyone. Odd person.

[onager]

11. Very true. I was a rural kid.

So I learned what plants to avoid (chinaberry, poison oak, etc.). Also critters, which in my area was mostly poisonous snakes (water moccasin, Eastern diamondback rattler and their friends). I also learned the hard way, at a young age, that bulls are not very good playmates and can be very cranky.

Once a cousin and I decided to commune with Nature and say "Howdy" to a large honeybee hive--just a few hours after my father and a neighbor had robbed all their honey. Those bees were extremely irate, to the tune of about 10 or 12 stings each.

But I think most of my childhood poison warnings concerned stale mayonnaise. According to my mother, that stuff would kill you quicker than a water moccasin.

[bluedawg12]

12. True statement, the less doctors* and hospitals, the lower the maternal mortality.

:sarcasm:

*This is not to mean MD's versus midwives, just saying, mother nature can use a little help with professional health care, with even the "most natural" of all processes, birth.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maternal_mortality
Maternal Mortality Ratio (MMR)
Maternal Mortality Ratio is the ratio of the number of maternal deaths per 100,000 live births. The MMR is used as a measure of the quality of a health care system. Sierra Leone has the highest maternal death rate at 2,000, and Afghanistan has the second highest maternal death rate at 1900 maternal deaths per 100,000 live births, reported by the UN based on 2000 figures. According to the Central Asia Health Review, Afghanistan's maternal mortality rate was 1,600 in 2007.<7> Lowest rates included Iceland at 0 per 100,000 and Austria at 4 per 100,000. In the United States, the maternal death rate was 11 maternal deaths per 100,000 live births in 2005.<8>

"Lifetime risk of maternal death" accounts for number of pregnancies and risk. In sub-Saharan Africa the lifetime risk of maternal death is 1 in 16, for developed nations only 1 in 2,800.

In 2003, the WHO, UNICEF and UNFPA produced a report with statistics gathered from 2000. The world average per 100,000 was 400, the average for developed regions was 20, and for developing regions 440. The worst countries were: Sierra Leone (2,000), Afghanistan (1,900), Malawi (1,800), Angola (1,700), Niger (1,600), Tanzania (1,500), Rwanda (1,400), Mali (1,200), Somalia, Zimbabwe, Chad, Central African Republic, Guinea Bissau (1,100 each), Mozambique, Burkina Faso, Burundi, and Mauritania (1,000 each).