Why are woos allowed to advertise potentially dangerous treatments

[EvolveOrConvolve]

in the Health forum? It's a disturbing trend that has started leaking over into GD and various other forums unrelated to health matters. Especially considering the ban on offering medical advice, why are they allowed to post blatant advertising for "cures" that are snake oil treatments at best, and potentially lethal at worst? Is there some sort of DU loophole that allows woos to promote this crap without repercussion?

I'm not going to post any links, because I don't want to be seen as calling out another poster. But, this post may be considered as constructive criticism of the DU admin and moderation crew - the promotion of this garbage is akin to the 9/11 tin-foil conspiracy nuts, except some of these "natural" cures have the potential to actually kill someone. And while I understand that moderation of a message board of this size is difficult, there needs to be some common sense added to the moderation of posts that claim to cure or treat diseases. For example, telling someone to wear a crystal around their neck to ward off swine flu would be okay, however nonsensical. But, if someone were to advocate the wearing of radioactive material on a charm bracelet to protect against the swine flu, that post shouldn't be allowed to stay.

Why does this seem like such an obvious problem to me, but is something that's never addressed?

[uppityperson]

1. I've alerted on GD ones, had them moved to Health forum. You make good points, will

use them more when alerting on Health forum ones also. Esp with the ban on offering medical advice.

"For example, telling someone to wear a crystal around their neck to ward off swine flu would be okay, however nonsensical. But, if someone were to advocate the wearing of radioactive material on a charm bracelet to protect against the swine flu, that post shouldn't be allowed to stay."

I can see the first being locked also as even that is a "natural" cure that could kill someone. Wash your hands, get enough rest and adequate nutrition and hydration are ways to avoid swine flu. Those who advise merely wearing a crystal are ignoring the basics and their advice could kill people.

Maybe there needs to be a woo forum rather than med forum? Aha! found it!
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topics&forum=245
Astrology, Spirituality & Alternative Healing Group

Time to start alerting on Health forum and ask for things to go there?

[EvolveOrConvolve]

4. Maybe that's the best way to go about it

Alert on the posts and ask for them to be moved to the Astrology/Spirituality/Alt. Healing group? That would be okay with me, but what about those posters who never start their own original post, and instead post their spam as response to other threads?

[varkam]

2. My understanding is that Skinner et al want to take a pretty light touch when it comes to...

that stuff because of free speech concerns. They're probably not going to crack down on something unless it is blatantly dangerous - they don't want to stifle discussion.

[EvolveOrConvolve]

5. And I absolutely agree with the free speed stuff wholeheartedly

But that light touch isn't used with the same level of nuance when addressing posts by DUers who write about cures originating from the reality based medical community. A recommendation to use a safe procedure developed by real scientists and successfully in use today by thousands of doctors is not allowed, while recommendations to use unproven "natural" products that have no know efficacy for the disease they are purported to relieve, or that have potentially deadly side-effects are allowed, nay even encouraged.

For example, were I to post a word-for-word press release from a large pharmaceutical company, rave on about how great their new product is, and provide a link where people can buy the actual product or receive information on getting an Rx for it, that post would be locked or deleted. On the flip-side, there are numerous posts from the "all natural" community doing exactly that: a press release is copied and pasted into the post, and a link is provided to purchase this magical new "all natural" product that, from the website links I read, cure everything from chronic pain, hemorrhoids, acne, cancer, urinary tract infections, brain tumors, AIDS, and terminal tumescence. This post is allowed to stay so that all the other gullibles can read about the cool new cure-all being promoted.

[realisticphish]

7. that's a good point

I've seen a lot of threads closed for "offering medical advice," yet we see alt healing stuff remain. I will say, though, I don't like equating the two... sets a dangerous precedent ;)

[varkam]

9. I agree with you that it's frustrating, but it isn't my position nor is it my call.

One of the big things seems to be that the admin regards a distinction between medical advice offered in response to a solicitation and medical advice sans solicitation. With the pretty blatantly woo-tastic stuff, they seem to rely to an extent on...well...us for enforcement (IOW, it falls to us to dress down the silly shit in thread).

[semillama]

12. Indeed.

I think too that a good approach is to keep in mind that our responses to woo promotion aren' only going to be read by the woo-pusher in particular but by all the people who read the thread, It's an excellent opportunity to demonstrate the strength of scientific reasoning vs. the non-logic and cherry-picking so often employed by the pixie-dust proponents.

[mr blur]

10. Spot on.

It's the same old anti-science stuff again.

[Orrex]

6. The free speech argument is problematic, though

Plenty of topics are off-limits and/or curtailed, and that's perfectly all right IMO because DU is a privately owned venue, subject to the rules established by its owners. Therefore, free speech doesn't really enter into it.

What troubles me most of all is that a great many woo-subject postings are blatant offerings of medical advice, but cast in the guise of commentary or opinion or "thinking outside the box or whatever. Any attempt to rein in the bullshit is attacked as shill-work or the like, as we've all seen countless times.

[varkam]

8. I agree, but with respect to this issue...

the perspective of the administration seems to be that there should be a wide a berth extended to it as possible - as you said, it's their house and their rules. In fact, the DU rules seem to try to avoid limiting discussion as much as possible with the exception of staying within certain boundaries of civility and not blatantly attacking Democrats.

Part of the problem is that it's not a very distinct line between offering medical advice and merely reporting that such and such a study found that magnetic crystals cure autism (or some such nonsense). The general consensus seemed to be, at least when I modded, that unless it was particularly blatant, it was up to the membership to deal with.

Additionally, there is a difference between offering medical advice in response to a solicitation and offering it sans solicitation (e.g. just making a new post) - I don't find the difference to be particularly persuasive, but it is there.

And the shill attacks are, I believe, off-limits. If you see them, alert on them.

[TZ]

11. I think part of the problem is

that alot of the mods don't have the scientific background to understand how much of what the woos post is nonsense and dangerous.
We pretty much can all identify Intelligent Design/Creationist arguments and that kind of stuff gets moderated pretty well. But how many mods are going to understand that a post that calls a vaccine "toxic" and "deadly" and that "natural immunity" is more than adequate are going to see that its factually inaccurate.
I will say some of the most blatant woo-wooism (cancer is caused by candida for example) does get locked.

[greyl]

3. They aren't. Hit alert. nt