I would feel better if the 9/11 conspiracies were true

[SemiCharmedQuark]

The world's most powereful people colluding to attack a powerful nation from within thus preventing the agencies reponsible for our security from stopping them...that would be scary but it would make sense and the United States remained in control the whole time.

The idea that a bunch of religious extremist nobodies with box cutters thoroughly fucked up the United States for years despite all of our security and weaponry and wealth is much more terrifying. We can't control that.

[lazarus]

1. they took advantage of a weakness nobody knew about

the standard way to treat a hijacking was to shut up and sit down and let things go. Eventually it would all work out.

Now the paradigm's shifted. So a hijacking is not likely to happen again. They'll have to find a new weakness.

I do believe in a teensy bit of the 9/11 stuff, basically that higher ups knew something was coming and didn't take it seriously because they knew they could take advantage of a crisis. The thing that solidified this for me was Condi Rice's statement a few weeks afterwards: "Nobody imagined they'd use the planes as missiles" or something like that. She basically admitted they knew hijackings would happen, they just didn't know it would be that bad.

[SemiCharmedQuark]

2. Well, I guess Im referring mostly to the MIHOPers

There was an article that came out that has them all in a tizzy. The SEC destroyed a document and some have declared this proof of a conspiracy

And with all of these conspiracies, someone exploited something we hadn't anticipated. Its like we don't everwant to think we got caught with our pants down

[TZ]

4. I'm with you on that, mostly

I think that 9/11 happened because of government incompetency and sheer arrogance. They never took the threat seriously, IMO.

[SemiCharmedQuark]

7. That's what I believe

But I understand lazurus' point of view too. I draw the line at MIHOP

[lazarus]

9. oh, MIHOP is ridiculous

The idea that the government could pull off a conspiracy that huge is just silly. But neglect from the top? Easy to believe.

[FiveGoodMen]

3. All explanations for the events of 9/11 include conspiracy

No one suggests that the towers and the Pentagon were hit by pure chance.

[SemiCharmedQuark]

5. That is focusing on semantics

I clarified that I am talking about MIHOP.

[FiveGoodMen]

6. MIHOP is ONE of the guesses as to what type of conspiracy occurred.

[SemiCharmedQuark]

8. MIHOP is a conspiracy theory based on a range of assumptions

Many of which are ridiculous

[FiveGoodMen]

10. Whereas the official story has planes melting steel buildings, but passports flying out of them

unharmed and landing in the street just so we'd know who did it.

Nothing ridiculous about that.

[TZ]

11. Whereas MIHOP has no planes hitting

the towers and that the towers were brought down by undiscovered controlled demolition. Yeah there's NOTHING far fetched about those arguments..:eyes:
BTW, have you ever seen the stories where tornadoes with winds of 100+ mph will destroy an entire house yet will occasionally leave photo albums and other fragiles in tact? Yeah. Its called RANDOM DESTRUCTION. Your argument is seriously flawed.

[FiveGoodMen]

12. Sorry. Wrong.

MIHOP stands for Made It Happen On Purpose.

Many MIHOP scenarios involve planes hitting just where they were said to have hit, but Bush Admin involvement in the planning.

Of course, it IS ridiculous to think that BushCo would do anything that would kill 3000 innocent people ...

[TZ]

13. Oh and see above why your argument is total bunk

And the Bush administration killing 3000 of its own citizens willfully is actually kind of ridiculous. They are jackasses and incompentents but just ordinary politicians.

[Name removed]

14. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[TZ]

15. LOL

Yeah because clearly the same people who couldn't get bottles of water to Louisiana could pull off the world's greatest conspiracy ever. Sorry I live in the real world. I don't live in a fantasy world where politicians are evil demons with magical powers. Go back to the dungeon with your ad homs btw. When people can't argue, they always resort to insults.

[SemiCharmedQuark]

23. "You're totally wrong! On a totally unrelated note, I have to go. Right now."

"But it's really a shame because if I didn't have to go (right now) I would show you how stupid you are."

[SemiCharmedQuark]

16. Ah the old " the fire couldnt have melted steel"

The steel was not melted, it lost its integrity. Problem is, people see metal and assume it is steel.

[TZ]

17. Why is it

Everytime we discuss 9/11 does a woo have to chime in? It's like they can't stand rational non- conspiracy discussions...

[SemiCharmedQuark]

22. I don't know. It's not like we invade their dungeon with facts and stuff.

Sometimes a funny thread gets moved in there after I've posted on it, but I don't go seeking to post in that forum. Although when there are threads declaring the moon landing a hoax it's so tempting.

[Odin2005]

25. No, the HEAT WEAKENED THE STEEL, no melting involved.

You Twoofers obviously don't know your physics.

[PVnRT]

32. Quiet. Bloggers know more about metal than ASME.

I mean, all that silly bullshit about "plasticity" and "elongation"? Metal isn't plastic!

[Silent3]

18. Even if you believed in MIHOP...

...(which I don't) the most reasonable version of that would be very close to the "official story", all you'd have to do is suggest that the hijackers had some inside help, support, and/or encouragement. We'd worked with Bin Laden before. Just imagine that Bin Laden really was still working for us, found some people eager to attack the "Great Satan", without even having to tell them someone in the US government wanted the attack to happen, and go forward just like things seem to have happened, with or without a little help in making security more lax?

I don't think, however, that I've ever heard a MIHOPper suggest that. They always have to throw in something goofy about controlled demolition, guided missiles, space lasers.

[onager]

19. Excellent documentary on the subject

On National Geographic channel: 9/11 - Science and Conspiracy

I ranted about it in another thread on this very board.

Their general approach was:
1. Present Twoofer theory.
2. Perform detailed experiment to test theory.
3. Present evidence to Twoofer, who invariably dismissed it as being wrong. Without, of course, doing any of their own experiments. I didn't even see a Flaming Bunny Cage. What a disappointment!

Summary of Twoofer responses: "The experiment is all wrong because my book explains exactly what happened. Wanna buy my book?"

The funniest test was the "thermite wrapped around the columns" theory. The experimenters wrapped a steel column in 175 POUNDS of thermite and set it on fire. It didn't even dent the steel.

[SemiCharmedQuark]

24. I wish I got NatGeo or that they would get off their cabooses and put some stuff on

iTunes. But no. I have the Hitlerdamus channel.

[Behind the Aegis]

20. Not me!

Many of the 9/11 conspiracies claim the Jews did it! I certainly don't want that to be true. My problem with most of the conspiracy theories, besides the lack of logic and intelligence, is the latent racism of "brown people" remarks. If one finds a little more credence with the "official" story, whatever that is, then the poster is accused of "hating brown people," when in fact I believe this to be projectionist nonsense and rather they (the accusers) are dealing with their own racist issues because they believe Arabs/Muslims/"brown people" just 'ain't that smart' to see something like 9-11 to fruition.

[SemiCharmedQuark]

21. Really?

Geez, is there any conspiracy *not* blamed on Jewish people?

[Behind the Aegis]

26. I don't know all of them...but....

Seriously, if you want to see a site that blames Jews for everything from the Natallie Hollaway disappearance/murder(?) to the "Protocols" (they are real don't ya know? the "real" conspiracy is the Jews made people think the "Protocols" were a forgery), let me know and I will PM you the link to the site. Don't be surprised when you stumble across things that are posted here and called "truth2power."

[TZ]

31. Don't I know it!

Every time Israel does something horrendous TEH JOOS did it! Conspiroids come out from their holes. I was arguing with some idiot in GD the other week (whose screen name made reference to "protocols") about how Israel makes women ride in the back of the bus, literally? Uh what? The only country that allows women in combat situations?

[realisticphish]

27. there's a claim

much disseminated in the the Arab world, that Jews were told not to go to work that day. It's gotten picked up by western twoofers, too

[onager]

28. I heard that crap all the time in Egypt.

It was infuriating (and scary) how many well-educated and otherwise intelligent Egyptians swallowed that nonsense.

The version I heard most often: 9/11 was a joint strike by Mossad and the CIA. Three of the airplanes involved were flown to a secret airbase in the US. The airplanes that hit the WTC and the Pentagon were radio-controlled. Then all the passengers were put on United flight 93, which crashed into the field in Pennsylvania.

So it has some elements of the American version, like all the passengers going down on Flight 93. But otherwise, it makes our Twoofers look almost rational.

[realisticphish]

29. and it STILL

doesn't address the most obvious means... why the fuck wouldn't the CIA and Mossad just get terrorists to do it? Pretend to be jihadists and leak the idea, or something.

Why the huge, complicated Rube Goldberg-style conspiracy?

[SemiCharmedQuark]

30. Wow. I heard something similar except it was that Muslims were told to stay home that day

It's almost funny...

[onager]

33. Wish I could find the editorial...

I remember reading not long after 9/11. Maybe somebody else here knows what I'm talking about?

The writer used a phrase something like this: The World Trade Center was built by people who believed in one god, in many gods, and in no gods.

Those of us sitting on the "no gods" bench usually get blame, instead of credit, during disasters. So that really impressed me as a thoughtful piece.