Damn, important note to self

[FM Arouet666]

Don't post in a green thread that nuclear is currently a more viable option than solar to meet the U.S energy needs. I am getting reamed by the greens. I would cross link, but it seems to be verboten. It is in DU for those interested, a number of exaggerated claims put forth for solar and wind power, both of which I support, but realize are not currently capable of replacing the big three, fossil, hydro and nuclear.

[BiggJawn]

1. My biggest "problem" with Nuke Power....

..Is that the electric companies don't take it (the safety requirements) seriously.

With a steam plant, if they fuck up, they drop the fire bed into the ash pit, or open the safety pops and scare the shit out of everyone for 3 miles. No biggy, fire the operator and get things settled down in the boiler...

With a nuke plant...

Anmd then there's the matter of the spent fuel rods... I have no doubt that eventually a solution will be found for that long-term problem, but right now?

With this "peak Oil" thing hanging over us, it's insane to dismiss Nuke Power out of hand, just because it's "not green enough". Wind power and Photovoltaic is still in its infancy, IMO.

I read a book the other day that told me that JAPAN had 39 nuculaer power plants in 1991. Japan??? The country that was supposed to be so anti-nuke that they won't let the USS Enterprise into Tokyo bay because of ITS power plant?

That was a shock, for sure....

[Pepperbelly]

2. Perhaps it is because of the work of ...

John W. Goffman. His research is compelling.

However, since you would probably disagree with him, I am bracing for for attacks re: his credibility, usually from people with far less.

[dwckabal]

4. You don't even pretend

anymore, do you?

[Pepperbelly]

5. Pretend what?

That you guys are resonable and actually want to know something about Goffman? No, you have all disabused me of any notion that you are in any way interested in truth.

[beam me up scottie]

6. Then why are you here?

Nobody else pays attention to you outside of this group so you have to come here and bait us in order to get your daily allotment of attention.

Pathetic.

[Pepperbelly]

7. LOL

Very good!

Excellent projection.

Try again. I know why I am here. the question is, do you know why YOU are here?

[Name removed]

8. Deleted message

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[Name removed]

11. Deleted message

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[Name removed]

14. Deleted message

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[beam me up scottie]

25. I see the token disruptor has been hitting the alert button again.

How predictable.

[Taxloss]

15. And yet he can't keep away!

For some reason we seem able to keep out of his deluded groups. But he seems magnetically drawn here. I've seen this faux-viciousness before. Perhaps he should drop the act and join us.

[beam me up scottie]

24. Sad, isn't it ?

Do you think he believes we like him?

[FM Arouet666]

30. Ah, yes Peppybelly has got under your skin?

I had a run with him a few times, generating very frustrating conversations. But then again, he serves an important function, and I have even agreed with a number of his posts.

A contrarian can force you to justify your position, and in so doing, clarify points for yourself, and identify errors in your own thinking.

I am not defending him, but enjoy reading the heated debates.

[beam me up scottie]

32. What heated debates?

Review his record in this group and show me where he has done anything other than troll.

His major function outside this group seems to be proselytizing hate for skeptics.

I'm amazed that the veterans in this group didn't get his monkey ass banned.

[FM Arouet666]

33. You may be right.

I had to take a break from the forum for a few months after arguing, ad nauseum, about science, chem trails, the difference between science and philosophy etc. His arguing style is typical of those which adopt classical philosophy. But, at least, the arguments were more than trolling and proselytizing. If that is what he has been up to lately, which seems likely, considering his past. What are we to do?

Alert, direct messages to the powers that be, or ignore him.

On edit, this post is a clear example of what you are saying. A lot of defensive posturing, with little constructive discourse.

[beam me up scottie]

35. I think the only one who uses the alert key

in this group is the one who disrupts continuously.

Personally, I've never used it in here and I very seldom use it in other forums.
I would rather watch the troll in question make a spectacle of themselves, or if it is a bigot, allow the rest of DU to witness the intolerance.

Although, as you know, atheists have seldom been afforded the protection offered others on this site when they use that function.

I believe we were told to "suck it up" the last time we formally complained to admin.

I haven't the faith in the system others do but I do acknowledge that the mods are doing their best.

on edit: I am reminded just now that there are a few mods who have interfered on our behalf and asked for tolerance that any other group is entitled to.

[FM Arouet666]

36. Really, I was unaware.

A formal complaint was made about the disruption. I did not realize things had gotten so out of hand. Like I said, I had to take a break. The endless discussions about nonsense with hostile name calling if you offered a challenge. It has taken me months to return.


I will down a cup of lithium and try to weather the storm.....:evilgrin:

[beam me up scottie]

37. Yeah, it's brutal out there.

Some days you're up for the beating, and others you want their fate to be sealed by their ridiculous faith in woo wooism.

It's kind of how I'm always tempted to move to Canada or Germany.

Let the morans have the leadership they voted for.

If they care more about preventing gay marriage than taking care of the weak and vulnerable or having their kids die for oil, let them have their wish.

But then I remember not everybody can leave.

So I continue the fight.

For now.

[FM Arouet666]

53. I agree completely

If the GOP keeps winning elections and the U.S becomes a theocracy I will move. For now, all we can do is fight. A keep thinking about The Neater lands or Canada, but driving damn fast on the Autobahn would be nice.

[Pepperbelly]

42. banned?

LOL

You guys amuse me with the ego and all. I have been here since the beginning. Can you say the same thing?

And even so, despite the nature of your posts, I have never tried to get you banned nor do I alert.

[beam me up scottie]

43. Really? Never ?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=247&topic_id=1404&mesg_id=1411

[Pepperbelly]

46. I stand corrected ...

it appears that even I have a level of abuse beyond which I do things that I would not ordinarily.

[Taxloss]

50. If you don't like taking it, stop dishing it out.

You have your own forums. Go back there.

[Pepperbelly]

51. have you seen me whining?

I don't think so. If anyone here has thin-skin ...

And I suspect that according to the group mission statement, I am perfectly justified in partaking of whatever discussion I might find interesting.

And which forums might that be, hoss?

[Taxloss]

52. "Hoss"?

If my skin was thin, I'd stop replying. You're the one who is stacking up deletions and who has just been caught in an outright lie.

[BiggJawn]

9. Ah! THERE you are!

Haven't seen you for a while.
In fact, I actually checked to see if you had finally gotten your well-earned "Monument"...

BTW, there was somebody plagerising your name the other week..."Pepper" something, I don't recall exactly.

But they weren't even a pimple on your butt when it came to trying to be as obnoxious as you....

[Pepperbelly]

10. As usual ...

impertinent and with nothing cogent to say about the subject at hand. No criticism of Goffman? That's why nuclear energy is NOT the alternative the OP claimed.

[BiggJawn]

12. Hey, somebody's gotta play the "Sacred Fool"...

And since you're not interested...

Lemme go check-up on this Goffman...Get back to you in about 5 months, doesn't sound like an easy read. Hope he's not as trite as Chomsky...

[Pepperbelly]

13. Goffman is the real deal ...

He's been the expert on ionizing radiation for a long time. The nuke advocates don't like him much because he predicts cancer-clusters around the facilities. He is also an epidemiologist.

[Taxloss]

16. "ionizing radiation "

Wow, that sounds like real science. And "cancer clusters" makes it sound even scarier. Incidentally - you can't have a cancer epidemic.

[Pepperbelly]

17. argue with the doctor,

professor.

[Name removed]

18. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Pepperbelly]

19. and you are clearly ...

out of your depth. Perhaps the wading pool would better suit the fjord of your scientific knowledge and acumen.

[Taxloss]

20. Fjords are very deep. you know.

But you plainly didn't know.

Your knowledge and acumen is more a rockpool. It's fun to splash around in, but shallow.

[Pepperbelly]

21. Zip ...

right over your head.

I am unsurprised.

[Taxloss]

22. So how does intimidation work in real life?

You're a bully, and I do not plan on letting you get away with that.

[Name removed]

39. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Taxloss]

45. Bullies, eh?

I don't wander into your groups and call your peer group "shit-throwing hominids". In fact, you're the one causing the trouble and bullying people here. So if you are "someone who hunts bullies for fun" - which I seriously doubt, considering your attitude and past behaviour - you are going about it in a markedly f'ed-up manner.

[Pepperbelly]

47. hardly ...

I go where they are.

[beam me up scottie]

23. I am surprised that you'd want to come back in

here knowing how much we all enjoyed the memorable ass whooping you recently received.

Did the woo woos kick you out of their pajama party for not bringing your bottoms again?

[salvorhardin]

26. *shudder*

Now you had to go and put that image in my mind! Eww.

[beam me up scottie]

27. ack ack ack !!!

:evilgrin:

[Name removed]

38. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[beam me up scottie]

44. Face it, junior, the Emperor

wiped the floor with you.

It was a beautiful thing.

[FM Arouet666]

34. Ad hominem, pointless discussion.

Why the name calling?

[BiggJawn]

28. "Cancer Clusters"?

Haven't those been disproven as co-incidental? You could draw an alarming conclusion with cancer statistics for a given Zip code. Until you find that there is a rather large Hospice operating there, right?

Barring a catastrophic event,I wonder which would be more hazardous, a Nuke plant 5 miles away, or the Radon drifting up from cellar with a dirt floor? I think WHO is more concerned about Radon and too many Dental X-rays than they are "Other" man-made sources of radiation.

Being in the RF business, I'm very familiar with NON-Ionizing radiation and the dire claims made for that in the last 20 years. Other than heating in internal organs (eyeballs and testicles) from close exposure to high-power, UHF or Microwave radiation, most of what we were concerned about has been proven to be just so much bunk.

In fact, it was revealed that the scientist who wrote such scathing indictments of the Power Industry fabricated his numbers, because he had an agenda against the power companies.
Lot of electric blankets and alarm clocks got sent to the dump thanks to him.

Geez, I remember..."If you have a water bed, do NOT use an electric heater!" Even TRY to sleep on an unheated waterbed?
"If you MUST have an electric alarm clock in the bedroom, keep it as FAR from the bedside as possible." "Do NOT have a TV set in the bedroom" (OK, if you're not single, there's good reasons for following this suggestion, but "non-ionizing radiation" has nothing to do with them)

And the stuff about the "danger" of overhead power lines...

"Radiation" is a scary word, especially for kids who grew up with 50's Sci-Fi movies and "Duck and Cover". I think there are some who are cashing in on that fear.

[Pepperbelly]

48. nope ...

Goffman is a lab guy and what he does is predict the cancer occurances based on rad levels. He does it quite well.

[FM Arouet666]

31. What a heated little debate......

My original post was meant to generate a flurry of responses, I find it interesting to post opposing views to see how well others can defend a position.

A link, or synopsis of J.W. Goffman's work would be more helpful than a comment and concern about the aftermath.

[Pepperbelly]

41. He is a molecular and cellular biologist ..

and, I almost forgot, a lecturer at the med school ... Here is a synopsis of what he has done ... the first thing that came up on google.

http://www.ratical.org/radiation/CNR/JWGcv.html

[dwckabal]

3. I wouldn't say you got reamed

although some of the claims made there, while technically true, leave out much that in the end makes such projects unfeasible. All you did was point out some of those things and...look out!

For example, the first thing I thought of when I read "let's build a 90 square mile solar grid in Arizona" was first, how much would the monitoring system for such a grid cost? We'll need to know which panels are failing or operating under efficiency, for example. And second, since you're only using 6 hours of the day (on average) to generate electricity, what kind of storage facilities would you need to store the unused energy (3/4 of what is generated), and how much would that cost? And third, can we supply the entire country's energy from a single point, and what kind of failsafe and security measures would you need to cover your one source of energy?

I am in agreement with you—nuclear power is a more viable option than solar or wind. That does not mean we shouldn't still research and use alternative methods of power generation; it simply means that these alternative methods alone will not replace our current system in the near future.

Paticipate in the poll:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=4877345

[FM Arouet666]

29. No more math under the influence.

It was an interesting conversation, I re-read what I was posting after some fun out on the Vegas strip. I am still not convinced that solar can replace all other forms of electrical generation. However, the post brought up some interesting points, which I would not have explored, save for a challenge in the post.

[WoodrowFan]

40. but what about

giant ants!! \




Ok, so I saw too many 50s sci-fi movies as a kid.


Seriously, my only real concern about nuclear plants is what to do about the spent fuel. And, I don't really trust the power companies to run them safely especially with Washington's current rulers, who don't give the south end of a north-bound rat for safety regulations....

[Taxloss]

49. It's true.

We've seriously neglected the giant ant element of this argument.

[Moderator]

54. At the request of the

author, this thread is being locked.

Thank you.

DU Moderator