4th Edition D&D is out June 7th

[Mojambo]

Anybody know much about it. I've only heard bits and pieces from a podcast I recently started listening to. Apparently it's a pretty huge change.

I haven't played in quite some time, but I was thinking of picking it up again for 4th edition if I can find a suitable group.

What say you all?

[YOY]

1. I say they're looking to market for powergamers

The guys (never met a gal but I'm sure they exist) who munchkin their stats to make the most powerful character using obscure rules...roleplaying is secondary to them.

[Hong Kong Cavalier]

3. I had a female munchkin gamer in my last group.

She was a great roleplayer, too. But many of her characters were cut from similar patterns.: sweet and innocent/wanton and lecherous. And she did manipulate her stats to make powerful characters. Nevermind the story or the adventure; it was about gettin' stuff and gettin' her skills and feats juuuuust right.

I wouldn't have invited her into the campaign if I hadn't liked her. Games with her were never boring, I'll admit.

[Hong Kong Cavalier]

2. I'm going to pass on this one, actually.

I've been an avid D&D player since the famed red box back in the early days, and the changes they're making to it now make it look like an MMO.
Everything I've seen of 4th Edition makes me think it's like Bioshock: dumbed down for the console turds.

The rules assume your DM is an idiot who can't figure out how to balance a party or an encounter correctly. I know this appeals to the "pick up and play" kind of gamer, but D&D has never been a "casual" game. To try to appeal to the PopCap generation (low attention span; powergamers who don't give a shit about roleplaying) of gamers is going to bring about the end of this grand experience.

[Ignis]

4. Welcome to D&D Bizarro World!

Gnomes are now monsters, and Tieflings are now characters.

I'll echo what HKC said. WOTC is really trying hard to market to the WOW crowd with this release, and I think it may bite them in the arse. How many WOWzers do you know who'd want to play PNP D&D rather than shoot/slice monsters on a computer?

[Hong Kong Cavalier]

5. I know exactly one WoW'er who wants to play D&D (see my reply above)

She hates 4th edition, too.

[Orsino]

6. I'd planned to sit out this edition, too...

...not having played any significant amount of 3E.

But the other night in a Chat game, a friend was telling me about his experience with 4E, about how there's no juggling classes--heck, that you make and customize your own "class"--how there are multiple magic mechanics, and how the overall experience is a bit GURPS-like. Coincidentally, my wife is feeling the itch to RP again.

I may be sold.

[Orsino]

9. But WTF? No bards?

No half-orcs? No barbarians?

I just bought the PHB, thinking I'd see how the new mechanics could model a Viking skald along the lines of those found in the 2E green book.

They can't, it seems. In their rush to publish before the summer con season, WotC omitted some key (for me) features. The old rule is: "the game's not done until the bear can shoot laser beams from its eyes." somehow, 4E forgot the damned bear.

I'd flipped through the 4E preview Races And Classes book, which listed bards as something they were still fiddling with. The fiddling, it seems, goes on, and bards will have to wait for online errata or the inevitable splatbook.

[Hong Kong Cavalier]

10. What what what what what?

They pulled the bard from the game?

Frak that. I'm definitely leaning towards "not buying it" now.

[Orsino]

11. I'm assured that they didn't "pull" bards.

The Races And Classes preview mentioned them as under development, so they're going to appear online in errata or in the rumored PHB2. They're going to be selling Forgotten Realms, and that means harpers, and that means bards...eventually.

I want to resurrect an old character, a Viking skald out of the old green book (which we modeled for play using the 2E Player's Option books), and was dismayed to find even plain vanilla bards missing. There are no half-orcs yet, either, but they're sort of required for the official settings, so I'm sure we'll see 'em someday. It's weird, though, that the new player's book has half-elves and two different kinds of elves, plus dragonborn, for Pete's sake...but no half-orcs. It's obvious the game isn't finished yet.

[Hong Kong Cavalier]

13. Yeah. I'm almost completely in the "skip this" column now.

It seems I was right: WotC rushed this, just like they rushed 3rd Edition. Or they're just going to release half the base content now and then put out another book to make money.

And WTF are these "dragonborn"? More munchkin powergaming creatures?

[Orsino]

14. I'm guessing that they've been carefully balanced...

...but the word "munchkin" occurred to me when I saw 'em, too. Let's see:

Looks like dragonborn (draconic humanoids) start with a once-per-encounter 1d6 breath weapon, +2 bonuses to strength, charisma, and to history and intimidate checks. They get a +1 attack bonus when wounded, and get to add their constitution bonuses to the self-healing ability all 4E characters have.

Dwarves, in comparison, move just a tad slower, get +2 to con and wisdom scores and to dungeoneering and endurance checks. They have a flat +5 resistance to poison, bonus hammer proficiency, are less slowed by encumbrance, and are resistant to being physically pushed around or knocked down.

Humans aren't quite zeroed out. They get a +2 bonus to any one ability score, an extra at-will class power, a bonus class skill, and a +1 to three of the four basic saving throws.

These races don't sound unbalanced to this 4E neophyte's ear, and the tweaks successfully convey the feeling of different races. Not bad, IMO.

[Orsino]

15. But you know what? Suddenly, I'm inspired by 4E.

The Warlord class is what's got me fired up.

The class feature, inspiring word, lets you, twice per encounter, call out to a wounded friendly, allowing him to add a d6 to his healing surge (the "shake it off" self-healing all characters can do x times per day), should he choose to take that action.

One of the at-will powers available right from first level is Viper's Strike, in which "you trick your adversary into making a tactical error that gives your comrade a chance to strike." Apparently, your comrade then gets to add your strength bonus to a hit he makes.

A first-level once-per-encounter power is Leaf on the Wind, in which you or a nearby friendly swaps places with the target critter. "Like a leaf caught in the autumn wind, your foe is driven by the flow of battle. Your fierce attacks force him to give ground."

At higher levels, there's Beat Them into the Ground, by which you "sweep the legs out from under your adversary and knock him" prone. "Your allies, inspired by the sight, follow suit." Friendlies up to 5 squares away make an attack roll to do the same with their targets.

These are just some of the cool leadership thingies Warlords can do. I am already planning how my wife and I can team up as the two basic kinds of Warlords, inspiring and tactical (based more or less on whether charisma or intelligence is your secondary ability score).

[NewJeffCT]

7. To be honest

I haven't been following 4E that closely, other than bits & pieces. I followed 3E much more closely, but then hardly played 3E when it came out due to a changing job situation, and then fatherhood. I also think 2E to 3E was a bigger change than 3E to 4E...

Powergamers are powergamers no matter the edition, and it's up to the DM whether to allow it or not - I've encountered way way more 1E powergamers back in the day than I have since playing 3E/3.5.

I will buy the books when they come out on Friday, but I will not change to 4E until my current campaign is finished, which won't be until later this year.

[YOY]

8. Almost in the same boat brother

I won't buy them until I really have time to play. Fatherhood and all... :)

[Orsino]

12. I had just enough interest to by the new PHB...

...but I largely ignored third edition after buying the core books out of curiosity. Okay, my wife and I had a lot of curiosity, and bought the 3.5 core manuals, too. :D But we only ever played a few 3E games at conventions, and had continued playing in first- and second-edition campaigns.

We have lost our two favorite F2F GMs to fatherhood, but our fingers are itchy again.

[hendo]

16. 4e looks interesting

I like some of the changes, while there are others that I could do without. It is quite a bit more simplistic, but maybe thats a good thing, it will get more people involved.

I haven't played in an actual game in ages though (10+ years).