Speaking of compassionate conservatives.....

[deek]

From the message board:

THE DISABILITIES ACT...................
by: angrywhitemale80 12/11/04 01:09 pm
Msg: 5 of 6

is an exhortion scam in itself. Just because they have some "disability" should not entitle these scumbags from getting all the choice parking spots or forcing the poor businessman or homeowner from having to incur expenses to accomadate them. Life ain't fair, libturd scum. Learn it. Live it. Love it.


(in response to the following article:)

LOS ANGELES - A man who has filed hundreds of lawsuits accusing businesses of violating the federal Americans With Disabilities Act was running an extortion scam, says a judge who has barred him from bringing any more such actions without court permission.

Jarek Molski is a "vexatious litigant" who has been running a "scheme of systematic extortion," U.S. District Judge Edward Rafeedie ruled.

Molski, 34, who has used a wheelchair since being paralyzed in a motorcycle accident a decade ago, has filed 400 suits since 1998. Most have accused restaurants, wineries, bowling alleys, banks and other public facilities of violating his rights under the Americans with Disabilities Act.

In most cases, the judge said in Thursday's ruling, Molski seeks damages of $4,000 a day until the target of his suit is brought into compliance with the disabilities act, then agrees to a cash settlement.

continued at http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20041211/ap_on_re_us/habitual_suer_1

[pop goes the weasel]

1. what a jack ass

unfortunately, the Dems in my county have the same attitude.

Sure would be nice if there was an enforcement mechanism in the ADA other than civil suit. But until local governments take compliance seriously enough that they will write enforcement into their own codes, law suits are all we have to work with.

[Sugarbleus]

2. I don't know what this litigants trip was to file so many suits but

it is true that new or remodeled buildings and government facilities DO HAVE TO COMPLY with accessibility standards set forth in the ADA laws.

During the late 80's and all through the 90's in our area we saw a huge improvement; people were quite eager to be obliging or helpful in some other way. Seems like we have a large wheelchair using population in our community.

THEN, all of a sudden, for reasons I don't understand, sensitivity to persons using wheelchairs went down. You could sense it while going down the street in the way folks looked at you when you needed to pass them on the sidewalk. You could sense it in the groceries and dept stores where the aisles were STILL too close to navigate through. And THEN comes the handicapped parking slots......man oh man has that caused some unpleasant situations and cheating. Obviously the person in the OP article is a sample of what I'm talking about.

Now, I'm learning of discrimination in housing for the disabled. There was a time when people were kinder to those of us with special needs...it seems to have fizzled out, I'm sad and frightened to say.

I dunno what happened but it appears our progress is starting to slide backward somewhat.

[China_cat]

3. Well

"it is true that new or remodeled buildings and government facilities DO HAVE TO COMPLY with accessibility standards set forth in the ADA laws."

Yes and no. There are something like 11 exemptions to that in the law. One of those exemptions is for businesses who would find it an 'undue financial hardship' to comply.

[Sugarbleus]

6. Yes, that is correct..especially for older buildings and

mom/pop type shops. But I was referring to significant REMODELS which incurs cost in and of itself therefore an access way is doable. The same is true of NEW BUILDS.

In the cases of new builds, "Undue Financial Hardship" wouldn't likely apply. Unfortunately, there are folks who might use this as a loop hole to avoid complying, if the circumstance of "remodel" arises...

Certainly, every single little shop built before ADA and/or before the Pyramids;) isn't required to make their establisments accessible.
In our community, I'm happy to say, many of these types of shopkeepers and grocery stores are willing to HELP the person with a visual or mobility issue, in terms of "shopping for them" while they wait, which is a nice gesture and should be appreciated. Not sued.

[China_cat]

9. We have a whole bunch of NEW

open air malls in the area. So far I've found ONE store with access (I use a scooter). It's in the back next to the loading dock.

New sidewalks here in Charleston...with trees planted in the middle of them. You have to go out in the street to get around them with a baby stroller, never mind a wheel chair or scooter. Parking garages have 6 to 8 inch curbs around the areas where the elevators are...and NO ramps to get to them.

The last 4 years have seen a definite erosion of the ADA. The Department of Justice is the only agency that can initiate suits under the ADA and those have declined markedly.

The law doesn't matter any more. And, while nobody on the R side of the aisle is about to try to uphold it, those of us who need it don't seem to be important to the D side either.

[Sugarbleus]

10. Ah, yes..ye ole planning department has NO CLUE

I remember my husband complaining about street makeovers where they'd planted TREES right in the middle of the sidewalk!

As for the "Mall" and the one "accessible" store..go to that one store and ask the manager WHO DESIGNED/AUTHORIZED the accessible feature (albeit out back). Explain to that one store that you want this info because their store is the ONLY one that has a ramp feature in the entire complex and you'd like to talk to the one who designed the ONLY ramp feature. You want to know from that builder WHY there aren't other ramp features (code or no code) in the whole mall and who "authorized" installing the one he did and why no other authroizations were given for the other stores..

Next step after, hopefully, getting an answer from this builder is to go to the City Planning Dept. to file a complaint (in form) about that mall that has no access for neither assistive vehicles NOR strollers. IF THEY blow you off THEN you go to the District Attorney and consider a suit. Try to get the problems resolved pleasantly first; sueing should be the last resort.

Going to the Planning Dept. is the first step to lodge a complaint for those sidewalks and that elevator, parking garage also.

In our community when the streets had poles or trees smack in the middle, hubby went to the planning dept.(we also had access to a great district supervisor) to let them know there was a problem. The planning dept fixed the problem by adding extra space/a 'go arond' space for each place with that configuration.

You are exactly right when you bring up the point that not only wheelchair users but people pushing strollers cannot navigate these barriers! That should be used to make the point also when filing a complaint.

If there is an "Independent Living Center" in your area, try going to them to gather support for the problems you face. ALSO, if you or anyone reading this post, have a particular "diagnosis": Cancer, Arthritis, MS, Polio, MD, Brain/Spinal injury et al..contact the associations for those conditions and try to gather support for these issues that way.

Finally, husband is sitting here with me rattling off directives (faster than I can type :))..telling me to tell you all that there's POWER IN NUMBERS.

If you have to, take $5 and put an ad in the newspaper to invite other disabled persons in your area to meet to discuss the issues they have surrounding ADA, etc. It is often easier to file complaints when there is more THAN ONE PERSON doing it for the same reason. "Finding" one another is how we, in our community, "got it together" and began to get things done.

On the face of it, this may seem like a lot of work..but it is WORTH IT. Nothing ever gets done without busting a sweat/stepping out and taking a stand once in awhile. No one else will do it FOR US.

*As a footnote: Sadly, a friend of ours took a tour of Washington DC. once--maybe it's been improved since then(?). He came back and told us it was THEE WORST city for persons using wheelchairs. He wanted to see the Viet Nam memorial and had to have a few strong Vets pick up his chair WITH HIM IN IT, they lifted him over the barriers to a place where he could then move along to view the wall. He said there were NO curb cuts, no ramps..not much of anything. His disgust was WHY wouldn't WASHINGTON be a MODEL of "accessibility"<----(boy, that has levels of meaning doesn't it)

Go get 'em China! Best, SB :hi:

[pop goes the weasel]

7. There was a time when people were kinder ...

"There was a time when people were kinder to those of us with special needs...it seems to have fizzled out, I'm sad and frightened to say."

When would this have been? I certainly can't remember any such time. I do remember how disabled children were kept from being able to go to school, how families with loved ones who had severe disabilities kept their windows drawn and never took their disabled family member out in public. When I was an infant, my parents had a friend who used a wheelchair. Most people avoided her, and wouldn't let their children near her. My parents shocked the community by letting her actually hold me, and naming a younger sister after her. My parents were considered distinctly weird for this.

A time when people were kinder? I don't think so.

The ADA is a problem, though, for many reasons. For example, it sets us up to have to prove we are disabled--you don't see other civil rights laws forcing black people to prove they are black. Another problem is that the enforcement mechanism is personal lawsuit. Why isn't there a federal enforcement? Why do disabled people have to go to court instead of filing a report with an agency and knowing that the federal government will intervene on our behalf? The ADA is a half-measure that allowed the able-bodied to pat themselves on the back without making any serious changes in their own thinking or behavior. That people like Clint Eastwood and this freeper want to weaken it further is an outrage.

[Sugarbleus]

8. Well, Pop, I don't know where you live but in MY

community there WAS A TIME...a very short time albeit...after ADA and the disabilities rights organizations started cranking up, that people started to recognize we exist and actually showed respect and some kindnesses. I'm not talking about decades ago, I'm referring to actions taken right after ADA and through the 90's.

Perhaps I was fortunate enough to live in a progressive community where all human rights were valuable issues. I do remember traveling outside of my community during that time where attitudes were different; accessibility was almost non-existent; attitudes dismissive. Quickly though even those areas began to change as business realized disabled persons SPEND MONEY TOO. Maybe that and maybe a little threat from ADA laws on accessibility..who knows.

We were able to rent housing almost anywhere where the owners 9 times out of 10 were decent and accomodating. As I've said in another post, my S.O. did YEARS of volunteer work with the city transit to ensure accessibility for people with mobility and visual issues and his work was welcomed heartily by the city. My S.O. helped start the first independent living center here. He worked with others to help get curb cuts around town and braille and specialized phone service centers set up in Government buildings and elsewhere as appropriate.

One of our close friends works with the blind and visually impaired. Another lady friend of mine volunteers with the Mental Health community to ensure their needs are met without abuse and in a domestic setting..funded by the state.

What I was referring to is the fact that not only are funds being cut back or cut off to these programs, but the "attitudes" of the increasing freeper population (including the likes of Eastwood) are bringing down the trends we'd set for freedom and respect of all persons with differing disabilities.

Yes, with this change in attitudes in a community like mine (let alone a community in "RED" america) COULD COME a return to decades ago where people ARE mistreated with impunity and/or institutionalized again OR thrown out on the streets!

For the record: this household is NOT sue happy. We believe in approaching a situation with dignity and reason FIRST. If that doesn't work and we feel like we've been treated BADLY and have NO other recourse...like the physically challenged man who had to CRAWL UP THE STEPS to his court house to go to court (:grr:)..THEN a law suit would be in order. Constantly suing people instead of discussing and trying to resolve or come to a compromise over the problem with the establishment FIRST is counter productive and brings resentment down upon the disabled commmunity.

Finally, just because a person uses a wheelchair, has some other challenge/condition/barrier does NOT mean they are always wise OR nice. I've met a few real assholes in the disabled community. Persons with differing abilities are just like the rest of the population, Some fine people some nasty people. Our family prefers to go about our lives with dignity and pleasantness. IF someone calls me/us a "scumbag" or refuses service...THEN we're going to BOX! :evilgrin:

I wish you well ~~~PEACE~~~

[pop goes the weasel]

11. my, you lived in an unusual place

Really. I lived in and still work in a city that considers itself, oh, so liberal, and in those places, people with disabilities have to fight the same battle over and over again for access. The "honeymoon" period consisted of a short time during which government and business thought that putting an accessible toilet in was the extent of all they were asked to do--and that they wouldn't actually have to make sure that toilet was accessible or functioned at all. Once those damned crips complained about the lack of real compliance, the "honeymoon" was over. I understand why there are lawsuits--I don't have as many access issues as many other people, but if I decided to follow up every unmet complaint I have had with a lawsuit, I'd be spending a lot of my time in court. It's a shame that private lawsuit is the only enforcement mechanism for the ADA, but the real story is that people with disabilities bring forward so few suits.

[Sugarbleus]

12. I just posted a piece above to China Cat where I shared

some tactics that may be helpful for those with accessibility issues in different locales.

I did have hubby sit here with me to help form that message to China and we discussed things I'd forgotten--like the issues you bring up "Location, location, location". You can read the footnote I added to my reply to China about Washington DC (as an example)

Yes, the "Honeymoon" appears to be over in some districts; it also appears it never got started in others. That is a damnedable shame!

And just for the record: I'm NOT against bringing a lawsuit if it is the only avenue to get a situation resolved. We just don't want to see it abused as an avenue to an end especially if the case is about receiving money for personal use "just because". We'd rather see the PROBLEM resolved via the suit and made an example of for other establishments to follow.

If someone has truly been manhandled, injured, HARMED, or humiliated (due to having to piss/shit their pants for lack of an accessible toilet for example), then that's a completely different can of worms. One has the RIGHT to recover $$damage$$ from injury due to negligence. We've had that happen to us when a city bus crushed hubby's foot in it's automatic chair lift that went haywire.

MOBILIZE, mobilize, coordinate with others to get grievances addressed. If all else fails...THEN SUE.

BEST, :hi:

[KamaAina]

4. Homeowner? How does a homeowner incur expense under ADA?

forcing the poor businessman or homeowner from having to incur expenses to accomadate (sic) them

El Freepo appears to be confusing "homeowner" with "landlord". What a moran.

"Scumbags"? Un-freepin'-believable. Usually we only have to deal with pity (poster child effect) and fear ("I'd rather be dead than be like that!"), not out-and-out hatred.

Oh, and to Judge Freeper, how is it a "scheme of systematic extortion" when the defendants are in violation of Federal law?? Has anyone presented any evidence that Molski is harassing busineespeople who are actually in compliance?

[KamaAina]

5. Oh great. Judge Freeper is visiting in Hawai'i.

:puke: :puke: :puke:

shortage of Federal judges hereabouts, dating back to repuke obstructionism in the Clinton Era...

http://starbulletin.com/2005/02/24/news/index.html

U.S. District Judge Edward Rafeedie rejected Suzuki's request to be given a sentence of between zero and six months, citing the seriousness of the offense and the importance of punishment as a deterrence.

"This type of tax fraud is pervasive. ... With professionals assisting, it makes it worse," said Rafeedie, a visiting federal judge.

There's no telling what damage Mr. Scheme of Systematic Extortion might do while he's out here.

[happyslug]

13. I have seen the change it is less a change of intent.....

In the late 1960s I would walk to my Father's Letter Carrier Route during the summer. It was a nice walk over some very bad roads but I did not know any better. Anyway there was this one intersection between two four lane roads. I remember being yelled at by a Car Driver for pushing the button to get a walk sign, for it make it slower for him to get a green light.

Anyway the reason I mention this is by the early 1970s the walk and don't walk signs had been removed and replaced with "No Pedestrians Crossing Signs". I suspect for the reasons given me by that driver, Pedestrians interfered with the flow of Automobile traffic.

Now Pennsylvania is Unique, if the Highway is State owned, maintenance of the Road and the Traffic Lights are the duty of the State, but whether an intersection should have a traffic light is up to the local municipality. In this case Mt Lebanon Township. Thus the Light was changed to a no pedestrian intersection by order of the local Township. Furthermore Mt Lebanon to avoid racial busing ordered no busing and orders all of its roads to have Sidewalks, even state maintained ones.

20 years later when the ADA act was passed, the Pennsylvania Department of Transportation (PENNDOT) decided to follow the ADA and change all of the sidewalk at the above intersection to permit wheelchair usability. You than had the ridiculous situation where you have wheelchair cuts but signs saying no Pedestrian Crossing. Why, Penndot obeyed the ADA and made the intersection wheelchair accessible, But Mt Lebanon did not want to take the heat and re-install the walk and don't walk signs. Finally after about six months Mt Lebanon finally told Penndot to install the Walk and Don't Walk Signs, I do not know if someone sued Mt Lebanon or a threat of a suit was made, or that Mt Lebanon after checking with Penndot decided to permit the walk signs to be re-installed but it was done in the early 1990s.

I saw a lot of that at that time, people who wanted to comply complying, people who did not want to comply either doing nothing or yelling it was an unfunded mandate.

From what I have seen this pattern has continued. People who want to comply do comply. I have seen new wheelchair accessible ramps in older buildings, I have seen efforts to upgrade older buildings. In fact it is NOT that hard to comply, for example my old office was in the building built around 1900, it was NOT wheelchair accessible. A concrete ramp along the front that ended at the main entrance made the elevators accessible, while just installing wheel chair accessible restrooms on one floor of the building made it possible for handicap people to use the building. These costs were minor compared to a major retrofit and all that was needed. People did these things in the 1990s and today, but you have other people who do not even think about such things.

These later people, unthinking people, who do not want to spend money on anything but themselves that you are running across today. The easy fights was with the groups who wanted to comply, these non-compliers do NOT WANT TO. Furthermore these are the people who say if the Government want wheelchair accessibility the Government should pay them to comply or it is an "Unfunded Mandated". These are the same people who object to fire and building codes for wasting money on safety items they will never use. These are the same people who object to improve safety feature on their cars for their do NOT connect such safety features and there own well being. These are the people WHY you write thing like Safe Building Codes and Fire Codes and the ADA, these people will NOT do what is NEEDED unless force to do so.

Thus the problem is less a willingness to comply, than those people who do want to comply have, now you are running against people who do not want to comply. These non-compliers are always the hardest people to comply to anything the benefit society as a whole.