Defending Home-schooling: Too noisy, Not noisy enough, Just right...

[Robert Cooper]

Poll question: Defending Home-schooling: Too noisy, Not noisy enough, Just right...

Greetings, my fellow home-schoolers :-)

Till now I've had to conduct my HS discussions in GD. But with a star I've access to the Homeschooling group too.

Lucky you ;-)

I don't know nearly enough of you, and I'm hoping to correct that.

I'd like to start with this poll about defending home-schooling against persecution.

Since I arrived I've been involved in some very ... uhm ... intense debates about HS. I've seen a few who came to realize that HS is not just for RW fundamentalists, which I think is good news.

On the other hand, I've seen what I must describe as individuals hell-bent on smearing HS for whatever personal advantage they feel they get from it.

I've never been one to take quietly the persecution of a harmless people. I know some of you have noticed.

I'd like to hear the views of the community. I've listed three choices which I have personally held at one time or another.

This is not an advocacy thread. I'm not trying to recruit troops for a cause. I'm starting this as a round-table discussion in the hopes we can identify the problem(s) and put forward ideas for dealing with those problems.

I hope to hear from all of you.

Thanks,
Robert

[qanda]

1. Hey RC

This is a forum that is not utilized nearly enough. I'm glad you are here. The work you did on that one thread was amazing. I think most home-schoolers don't care what others think, they are too busy trying to educate their children. However, the Democratic Party would be wise to reach out to parents who don't see public school as the answer for the education of their children. The numbers seem to be growing and it's not just about creating a moral foundation, although that may be part of it (even for us Liberals). I hope the debate can continue and I'm certainly glad that we have a voice like yours leading the charge.

[Robert Cooper]

2. Hi qanda

:hi:

Thanks for being a part of that discussion. It's still active after seven days (is that unusual, I lack experience to judge that). We have 300 replies and 1 recommendation, and a flaming icon since Day 1 :-)

Here's the link for those interested:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=5523251&mesg_id=5523251
"CNN (AP): Homeschooled boy wins national science contest"

Here's another thread in which I've recently been active:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=5565960&mesg_id=5565960
"Elementary Teacher Accused Of Tying Kids To Chairs With Computer Cords"

While I have entertained all of the listed choices at one time or another, I am certainly intolerant of persecution in all forms of all harmless peoples. I really didn't get a sense of how persecuted HSers are till I got here. Perhaps naively, I thought LWers in general would understand HS from the anti-authoritarian point of view, which is how it started in the '70s (or was it the '60s: I was there so I don't remember ;-).

But as I pointed out to you, I've noticed it is not all DU. Most Duers are familiar with the RW HSers, likely from the few who seem to persecute -all- HSers. What better way to close down LW HS than to stereotype all HS as RW-fundamentalist?

That's why I think we need to be seen and heard in the more general public forums. Our existence challenges the stereotypes, and thus the paradigm for dealing with HS with hostility.

When I look at the civil rights movements of every minority, I see people coming out of the closets and saying "I'm not going to let you decide how much shame I should feel for what I am". I don't see that we have anything to be ashamed about. We love our kids and want the best for them. Would that more parents did.

When virtue becomes a source of derision, we are all in danger.

[mzmolly]

20. Marvelous post!

When virtue becomes a source of derision, we are all in danger.

:toast:

[fight4my3sons]

3. I've seen you in GD and am glad to see you here! n/t

[Robert Cooper]

4. Thanks...

...I saw you in my thread. I recall you saying you'd moved to a cheaper area to afford HS.

Glad you're here too :-)

[fight4my3sons]

5. yes, that was me.

We moved from NY to Maine last year. We have three boys, the oldest is three, the twins are 18 months.
I usually try to stay out of the GD because I am not very good at expressing myself in writing in the first place and am not good at arguing at all. When I read people who call themselves liberal and tolerant of others attacking a way of life that another may choose for their family it makes me very upset. I would think there would be more support here on DU for homeschooling. I think that you handle yourself very well, much better than I would be able to so I just try to stay out of it. I know that I am going to get a fight from my family when they find out that I am really not going to send our kids to school. I am a teacher and I can't imagine sending my kids off every morning to someone else so I can then go teach another bunch of kids. It makes no sense to me.

[Robert Cooper]

6. Personally I think you express yourself very well...

...and there's nothing wrong with the way you write.

As for your family, you have three(?) years to soften them up. Now would be a good time to drop little hints like:

"You know, I've been thinking of home-schooling. I haven't made any firm decisions, but the more I learn about it, the more it makes sense for (name of child) and I to try it. What do you think?"

That opens the door for discussion without a lot of heat. If the heat builds up, you can back off with statements like "that's a good point", "I hadn't thought of that." and "Thanks, you've given me more to think about."

Any objections you were unable to smooth out, let us know and we can give you ammunition for the next round of discussions.

One of these discussions every two or three months ought to help open the door for you, or at least ease the tension when you make your decision known to them.

I've been using this method with my brother (who really opposes HS) and mother (who is more understanding). With my brother I push the idea gently, back off the discussion when he shows he's reached his tolerance limit.

I hope this helps.

[fight4my3sons]

7. Thank you, it does help.

My mother knows that we are going to homeschool. My father doesn't. They have been divorced forever (since I was four). My father is very conservative, old school, but sometimes surprises me so I don't know what his take on it will be. I don't think it will be positive though. He hasn't said anything about us not sending our 3 year old to preschool yet though. My step sister over schedules her kids and I know that he is opposed to that - the thing is he is a pediatrician, a very good one, so he does know a bit about what is good for kids. He does usually say "Well, you are ________'s mother. You know what's best for him." Hopefully he'll feel the same about this. I will definitely come to you for back up when the arguments start. I think I'll be needing to provide some kind of articles or something for my relatives to look at. I've started a file already.

[GoddessOfGuinness]

8. Hi Robert!

I'm all for defending it from persecution. Those who are most vehemently opposed to homeschooling have impressed me as being a pretty ignorant lot, obsessed with the bullshit "social skills" argument. They often defensively suggest that those who homeschool are anti-public school; which is not the case at all.

I feel it's important that in defending our preference, we emphasize that homeschooling is not for everybody, but it is simply an option...just as are public school and various private schools with non-traditional teaching approaches. When responding to particularly nasty comments, I try to dismiss the negativity as ignorance; then I'll rationally spell out my experiences which disprove their objections. It's important to remain positive and non-threatening, despite their opposite approach.

[Robert Cooper]

9. Being "non-threatening"...

...considering how easily some choose to feel threatened, I find myself worrying very little about this.

Some are threatened by the idea of another viable choice. Any choice beyond public school is too many for them. Nor is their concern limited to the children. More often their concern seems limited to perpetual employment.

If more choices are made available for secular education, and the tax dollars are diverted to the students rather than the public schools, there will be a decreased demand for teachers in the public schools. It seems a lot of teachers find that threatening, even if it is better for the kids.

I'm not suggesting we go out of our way to upset people. I prefer reasonable debate anytime. But trying to be "non-threatening" depends very much on the way others perceive the message, and that gets into the baggage they bring to the table more than the way I present the message.

Consider that some of my messages meet with acclaim from HSers while being vilified by some (but not all) PS teachers. It's the same message being read by both groups with two entirely different outcomes. I don't think we can craft a message that will meet with universal acclaim from our opponents. This raises the question: how lightly do we tread?

[GoddessOfGuinness]

10. Point well-taken...

I just think it serves our cause best to remain positive even in the face of a "threatened" individual's derogatory flamefest. We want to win people over; and derision doesn't serve to do that well. I'm not sure which GD threads you were referring too; but I have had similar experiences with folks who seem to believe homeschool is the root of all evil.

As you say, we can't hope for universal acclaim. Still, in my discussions, I try to make it clear that I'm not opposed to PS. I'd like to see more teachers hired to create a lower student-teacher ratio...something that has been proven time and again to be a key success factor in children's education.

Maybe it would help if we set up a "talking points" thread here, and keep it kicked for folks who find themselves in need of a defense. Ever since I started homeschooling I received negative feedback from teachers and relatives, forcing me to really think about how to communicate my reasons for teaching my own kids. This puts us at a distinct advantage over those who blindly send their children to the local PS...for no particular reason.

[fight4my3sons]

11. I don't know why teachers take it so personally.

I am a teacher and I am choosing to homeschool! The teachers are so limited in what they can do anymore. In terms of what curriculum they can use and how much time they can spend on certain things. I used to hear so many teachers complaining of how they had to "teach to the test" and how they were missing other things with the kids. I taught kids in Resource Room so it was easier for me to individualize, I had it great compared to others who had a huge roomful of kids. The teachers that I worked with felt like they were rushed and that there were not enough resources given to them. A lot of teachers in the public school system are wonderful, but they themselves feel that the system is failing, at least the ones that I worked with felt that way. I don't think many would be surprised to find out that I homeschool. Many teachers I know send their children to private school, if they can afford it (have a spouse who works in a different field).

[GoddessOfGuinness]

12. I think they feel powerless...

How many of them had input on "No Child Left Behind"? Shouldn't they have been the first people consulted?

I know a number of PS teachers who homeschool as well. One of them was my older boy's high school Algebra teacher. She started using the same program I used with my son; and was very pleased.

[fight4my3sons]

14. I agree with you.

What program do you use, if you don't mind me asking.

[GoddessOfGuinness]

15. Calvert School

http://www.calvertschool.org/engine/content.do

Their lesson plan is easy to follow; and we find it's not difficult to modify things a bit to focus on areas where our child needs the most attention, and keep him challenged in those areas where he's strongest.

[fight4my3sons]

16. Thank you

I ordered information from them a few weeks ago. I am glad to hear that someone is happy with their materials. I think that their curriculum would appeal to my husband. I haven't received the information yet, but I am not in any rush.

[unschooler]

17. We don't use much curriculum, but Calvert is very impressive!

Really gorgeous stuff.:hi:

[fight4my3sons]

19. It looks very nice and the reviews seem good.

I think we are going to give it a try!

[fight4my3sons]

18. Ok, we recieved the catalog.

and we like the materials. I have a question though. Do you have to return the textbooks? or the manuals? I am only looking at Pre-K right now so I don't think you have to return any of that stuff as it is mostly consumable, but when you get to the older grades what happens? Maybe I didn't read it closely enough and I missed it. It does look like something we are going to try when my son turns four in the Fall.

[GoddessOfGuinness]

21. You don't have to return anything...

They recently asked people with used items to donate them for Katrina victims; but they're sticklers about keeping the program up-to-date. It doesn't take long for them to put an edition out of circulation.

I hope you see this...Sorry to be so late answering!

[fight4my3sons]

22. I saw it! Thanks.

For some reason I thought you had to return their textbooks. Thanks for clearing that up.

[Robert Cooper]

13. I think a talking points thread is a good idea...

...either here or perhaps in the Research group (or both).

And while I am not interested in making anyone feel threatened, I've been at this too long to think that's not going to happen. When someone decides to repeat a long litany of tripe about HSers, it's not something I ignore, mostly because such a litany plays to the popular phobias and bigotry about HS.

My HS thread took care of this because of the many and varied stories supporting HS. The agitators got lost in the shuffle and looked silly contradicting well-meaning people who said good things.

But that's not -always- going to be the case. Sometimes it's a knock-down drag-out kind of debate, and abandoning it isn't an option unless you want the opposition to dominate the discussion.