advice on buying a bass?

[Idylle Moon Dancer]

I've been thinking of getting a bass again. The last one I had developed
some incurable neck warp after about 5 years. Other than that it was
pretty decent. 'Twas a sad time. So I want one that will last a lifetime
but not break the bank. I've only looked at one place so far, and was
largely disappointed. They have mostly Deans and Peaveys, a couple of
which seemed acceptable, but didn't really excite me. Then there was
the Brian Moore, with neck-thru, nice tone and flexible controls,
amazing action, no buzzing frets as far as I could tell. The tag said
list price of $1400, they were selling it for $850 which is about at
the top of my range. It may have been used, I forgot to ask.
Only problem is it's a 5-string, and I've never played a low B-string
that felt or sounded right to me. I don't think I'd mind if it had a
high b instead - how doable is that, would it put the health of the
neck at risk?

More generally speaking, what about the quality and reputation of
Dean and Peavey? Other brands I should check out? (don't say Fender,
they may have some quality stuff but I've never liked their basses)

[ProfessorGAC]

1. OK. Here's My Take

Yes you can put a high B on a bass, but the nut will have to be cut to allow it. The nut is set for the low B at string 5 and on down, so the nut will be cut to wide in every slot for the stringing you suggest.

It will NOT have an effect on the neck. Remember that the design of the guitar or bass is such that the strings are all essentially equal tension. That's why there's different gauges for different pitches. That way all the stings are at the same tension (on a bass i think it's about 24 pounds of tension, but i'm not 100% sure that's correct). The neck won't change.

Peavey makes OK instruments, but they tend to be a bit neckheavy for my taste. They do have a nice piano-y sound now, unlike their old stuff which sounded like mud to me.

I don't know about Dean basses. I don't care for their guitars that much, especially the lower priced stuff.

You should check out the Yamaha line of basses. Pretty good stuff for the money. And i won't mention Fender, even though i've got a 5 string Jazz bass with Vintage Noiseless pickups on it. I like it a lot, but different strokes. . .

Another option is Ibanez basses. The price/quality ratio of their guitars and basses is excellent. You won't get a Warwick or Tobias, but then you won't pay a third of what those cost. So, it's pretty good as an alternative. I have a high-line Ibanez guitar and my friends and i consider it the "gold standard" among all 30 of our guitars. Their cheap stuff is like anybody else's cheap stuff. You get what you pay for.

The Professor

[Idylle Moon Dancer]

4. what do you mean by neckheavy?

looks like I'll have to find the nearest Ibanez dealer...

crap. it looks like the closest one is 45 miles away, by their
website.

[dbt]

5. Neckheavy=more weight in the neck than in the body.

(Or a lack of balance that makes it act like it.) You wind up having to use your fret hand to hold the neck up as well as make the notes--or stand really weird to compensate. Avoid all neckheavy basses, IMO.

[ProfessorGAC]

6. Thanks, dbt.

That's exactly what i meant! I knew a guy that had a custom-made bass made out of a thin plank of paduak. That thing was 70% neck, by weight. It was IMPOSSIBLE to play comfortably, unless one was sitting down. It was fatiguing just to hold the neck end up while playing. Really expensive, but really horrible.
The Professor

[Idylle Moon Dancer]

12. Is there an easy test for neck-heaviness?

without strapping the thing on?

[ProfessorGAC]

13. I Think So, Yes

You should be able to hold the bass by in one hand, by the lower bout, where the lower cutaway peaks. If it's really neckheavy, you should feel the tendency for the thing to tip toward the headstock. You will have to use force to prevent it. Strapping it on is the best way, especially if you use a slick strap. One model of the old Peavey's were so neck heavy that if you just let go and started to walk, the bass would start sliding down on the neck side. I think it was a misdesign, because the thing was basically a big, fat plank of ash and was heavy as heck. Might have set the neck to high on the center of mass of the body and cut a little too deeply. Or, the just made that big chunky neck too fat and had too much mass up there. Either way, it's misdesigned.
The Professor

[Ron Green]

2. If you get longer than a 34" scale, the low B won't be as floppy.

35" or longer neck will allow a nice tension on the low B, and you can buy extra-long strings if you look for them. I have a custom-made 5-string with a 35 1/2" scale, and the low B is nice and solid. However, if your hands are small, you might not be comfortable with such a length.

I wouldn't see much use for a higher string on a bass, unless you're going for some strange effects. Playing bass with other musicians on actual jobs, I find the low string very useful. It's nice to have the low Eb or the low C at the end of a tune.

[Idylle Moon Dancer]

3. you've got a point there

I do a lot of solo work, so I thought a high b might be interesting,
but I would like to be in a band again at some point and I can easily
see how it might be useless at best in that situation. My hands are
small. 4 string for me then.

[ProfessorGAC]

7. I Don't Have Big Hands Either

The extra string is not that difficult to grab. The 5 string is really not noticeably wider at the 12th fret than a guitar neck. Thicker yes, as are virtually all basses would be. But, i don't have long fingers and i don't have any problem using the 5th string.

BTW: I know a guy from michigan that put a high B on the 5 string. I played it and found it basically useless. So, i would concur with Mr. Green on this one. And, know that i do a lot of midrange and upper register bass work, because we are a semi-abstract 3 piece when i'm the bass player. (As a four piece, i'm keyboards and guitar.) Despite how often i play up the neck, i still found the higher string far less useful than the low B.
The Professor

[Ron Green]

8. Also, I mentioned hand size just regarding the scale length, not the

number of strings. On a 35 1/2" neck, those first few frets are pretty far apart. But the low B is nice and tight.

[Idylle Moon Dancer]

9. that's what I was referring to

I wouldn't want a 5 string unless the B sounded right, which
would mean longer scale length.

[dbt]

10. Just out of curiousity, CrabN,

what is it you don't like about Fender basses? Could they somehow have gone to hell since I bought a Precision back in 1969? (I'm a fine one to be asking such a question, since it took me 20 years to "accept" the sound of a Rickenbacker...)

:hi:

[Idylle Moon Dancer]

11. I guess it's mostly aesthetic nitpicking

I don't like the big, cheap looking tuning machines with exposed gears
(that's also one thing I didn't like about the Peaveys I looked at),
nor the shape of the headstock. I like a neck with a full two octaves.
Precisions' necks are too fat for my taste. I have yet to see one with
a finish that is better than merely acceptable to me.
The Brian Moore that I looked at would have been perfect
were it a 4 string.

[MamaBear]

14. New or Second Hand

I got lucky recently with a second hand MusicMan SUB 5-string. It doesn't get that much play because we're not playing that much hard rock right now, but the sound is extremely fine, the feel is wonderful and it only set me back $400.

I've tried a lot of different instruments and they all have their quirks and problems. I just returned to playing my Fender Standard Jazz (4 string), although it weighs a ton and the headstock is heavy and clunky. It seems the best sound for a group that's playing early 60s pop (Bobby Darin, etc.)

I've heard Arias are very good.

My favorite bass for feel is my Beatle bass knock off (Rogue, very cheap). The intonation is tricky as it's a short scale but the neck is slim and fast and the sound is extra warm.

Good luck.

[Idylle Moon Dancer]

15. Schecter?

Well, I'm generally having a hard time. The only place around me that
looks like they might have a good selection also looks like the kind
of place I don't want to support. The three closest shops, I like them,
but they have nothing I want or can afford. One place had a sweet
Alembic for $1800 but I don't have that much to drop on a bass.

I found a place somewhat nearby that supposedly deals with Schecter,
and I've seen some basses on Schecter's website that might be a good fit.

My next day off is too far away...

[dbt]

16. A lot of people swear by their guitars.

IIRC, Pete Townshend used to play a Schecter tele. They seem to be a reliable brand, so their basses might well be worth a look.

Have you looked at Carvin? They make some neck-through-body models (as well as yer standard bolt-on types) at pretty reasonable prices. 'Course, some people think their stuff is ugly...

[ProfessorGAC]

18. I've Got A Schecter C-1 Blackjack

Superbly built and great electronics. The neck is very suited to my hand and style too.

I've never say anything negative about their products.
The Professor

[SlackJawedYokel]

17. Let me second the Carvins.

Especially the new basses with the badass dual humbuckers($620 on their baseline B4).
Sweet.

I've been playing one of their lower end guitars for almost 20 years now and it is still one sweet guitar.

That said, I've *always* liked Carvins because you can pretty much pick and choose exactly what you want... the downside is that unless you live in southern California, you can't play one.

I'm torn between buying one of their kits(between $350-600) and building my own or just picking up a "beginners" Yamaha/Ibanez for around $200.
Musiciansfriend.com carries the Asian-made Rogue series of guitars and basses of which I am seriously considering their Pro line bass.
In that vein, Sam Ash carries a Koren-made brand bass, Carlo Rotelli, that is pretty neat... there are fretless variations that come with or without fretlines, and they play pretty good.(the fit and finish is kinda spotty though, so I'd definitely look them over with a careful eye).

Have you been purusing your local Craigslist.org?
That can be a good place to look... I see lots of college students realizing they're not going to be the next big thing.
And maybe see if your city/the nearest big city has a local musicians exchange site.

Good luck.

Cletus

[LifeDuringWartime]

19. check out the conklin groove tools series

conklin normally makes extraordinarily expensive custom shop instruments, but they also have a budget line of guitars and basses (or at least they used to - they appear to have been discontinued). i have one of the original 4-string models, before they upgraded the electronics. it is a GREAT bass, and sounds better than my custom shop carvin 6-string.

Any used groove tools bass should fit into your budget, except maybe the 7 string models. probably not what youre looking for anyway;)

visit http://www.talkbass.com. it is sort of like the DU of bass sites. you can also arrange sales/trades between users.