Piano chord arpeggiation

[Don Claybrook]

I’m wondering if someone can give me advice on how to arpeggiate any given chord I play on the piano.

I’ve been taking piano lessons for only about 6 weeks now (I’m taking jazz piano…or maybe you’d consider it pre-jazz piano. Playing from lead sheets/fake books). My instructor thinks I’m doing fine with playing 7th chords simultaneously and that it’s time for me to start to vary what I’m doing with my left hand.

He has suggested rolling chords, which I’m ok with. He’s also suggested moving the middle of the chord to the right hand, e.g., Fmaj would be F-E in the left hand, and A-C-Melody note in the right hand. I struggle with this, but I’m getting there.

Another suggestion he has given me is to arpeggiate the chords. And I’m just not getting it. I will ask my instructor for more specifics when I see him next week, but for now, I thought I’d see if anyone could advise me on arpeggiation.

Are there certain patterns you use for certain time signatures and tempos? I have gone only to the extent of playing stuff like: 1, 3-5-7, 1, 3-5-7 OR 1, 3-5-7, 3-5-7, 3-5-7. Really basic stuff.

Can someone please let me know about other patterns I should be looking at, or websites or books that would help me out in this area?

Thanks a lot.

[XNASA]

1. I guess the thing to do is determine the bass note.

And start your roll on the bass note. There no reason that the roll needs start on 1 all the time.

:shrug:

[Don Claybrook]

2. OK, thanks

I'm pretty much just trying to figure out what to do when I see a chord notation. Right now, I default to playing all the notes of the chord simultaneously. I want to learn how to do something more rhythmically interesting with my left hand when I see a chord symbol, trying to understand the range of choices available.

Thanks for your reply.

[XNASA]

3. Well, if you only have the chord notation,........

...then the thing to do is determine which notes are common between two or more chords that are next to each other. Then you don't have to move your fingers so much. I know. I'm lazy.

Everytime I sit down with just the notation, everything always ends up sounding like "Imagine". I suck.

[Don Claybrook]

6. Thanks again for your help

Yeah, I should've mentioned that I'm just looking at chord symbols and melody notes. I may have a condition that's the reverse of yours: when I see music written on the treble and bass clef, indicating exactly how it should be played, I get claustrophobic; I feel like the notation is way too precise and I'll screw it up. All in time, I guess.

Have a good weekend.

[ProfessorGAC]

4. Here's A Few Ideas

First, use the combinations of 1,3,5,7 but start at each of those notes. In other words, if in G, starting the arpeggios at the G, B, D, and the F will give slightly different colorations of the same notes.

Also, learn the 7th chord arpeggios in all 12 keys. This will get you a better "view" of the chords.

Next: Remember that an arpeggio doesn't have to be played in order. So work on 1,5,3,7; 1,7,3,5; 3,5,7,1; 5,1,3,7, etc.

Another tip: Run the arpeggios up and down over multiple octaves. This will help build speed and precision. Do it with just the right hand for a while. Then do two hand up and down arpeggiated runs.

Lastly, play the simple minor chord of the 5th of the chord to create 7 note arpeggios. (Use C as example: C - E - G - Bb with left hand, then go the G in the next octave and play G - Bb - D. This double colors the dominant seventh and adds a 9th.

Try those for a while, and let me know later if you liked them.
The Professor

[Don Claybrook]

7. Thanks, Professor

Regarding your third point (and XNASA alluded to this also, I think):
Would I not be arrested for crimes against music for NOT having the bass note on the bottom (in your example, 3,5,7,1 & 5,1,3,7)? I didn't know this. I also have questions about rootless chords, but I'll ask that of the poster below who mentioned it.

As to learning all of the 7th chord arpeggios in all 12 keys...I'm slowly getting there. I can reel off the major scales with few accidentals (C, G, Bb)very quickly. I can name all of the scales, but in doing so, you'd see me mumbling mnemonics, counting on my fingers, and eventually coming up with the right scale. I have lots of work to do in this area.

Next...thanks very much for the minor of the 5th advice. I had never heard this before, so I can't wait to get home to try it. To make certain I understand you correctly, I hope you don't mind me trying another example, using G7 as a starting point (I'm assuming this just works for dom7th, not major or minor??):

Key of C==> V7=G7
Left Hand (G7): G-B-D-F, Right Hand (Dm7): D-F-A-C.
And I'm guessing that you mean I am to play the doubled notes also (in other words, play 8 notes total, even though the D & F are doubled)...or do I just play G-B-D-F with A-C in the right?

Again, thank you for your help. It is appreciated.

[ProfessorGAC]

10. Answer!

You can play the C by using the minor 7th of the chord, but that creates a 6 tone chord, which would be the natural 11th. Just using the minor triad will give you a 7 note, 5 tone 9th arepeggio.

As to "rootless" chords, i think that's a matter of sound. If the mood of the song allows for a chord starting off the root, then it works. If it sounds bad in that part of the tune, just don't do it again! Experimentation is part of the fun!

It also depends upon whether one is playing solo or ensemble. I've done lots of piano work with a bass player, so i can noodle around without regard to the bass root, because someone else is there. But, i do a lot of 7th and 9th intervals in the left hand. (Key of C, the left hand starting point is C - Bb, or C - D. Then the chord sits over that. Doing that, it lets me start the chord or arpeggio on any of the notes. So, there's a lot of "depends" in the use of such chording.

I play out of the Monk and Tyner schools of jazz piano, so for me, there are pretty much no rules.
The Professor

[Ron Green]

5. Also, remember that you can leave out the root, fifth, and other

"main" notes of the chord, and play just, say, the 3rd, 7th and 9th (or the 6th or 11th if the harmony calls for it), and let the bass player establish the tonic. As you develop your own style, you'll find the inversions that you like and figure out how to play them as chords, arpeggios or single notes in the rhythm of the piece.

[Don Claybrook]

8. Thanks, Ron Green, and a followup question

I've been reading Mark Levine's Jazz Piano Book. He also mentions rootless chords, and also mentions something about the bass player covering the root. But then there's this one little sentence that says something like, "And remember, bass players don't always play the root". This last part confused me.

Here are my questions: if playing alone, not comping (and honestly, I have no idea whether I'll ever comp for someone or not, though I'd like to learn enough so that this is a possibility)...anyway, if playing alone, is there EVER a time when I would not play the bass note, where I would play a 3-5-7-9, for example?

By the way, I am beginning to drop the 5th from 7th chords, at least when I remember to.

Thanks, Ron.

[Ron Green]

9. Persistence of hearing

When a tune is happening, the melody (and harmony) become organized in the listener's ear, and the player can leave out an amazing amount of stuff and still imply the sound. So yes, I would say that you can leave out the bass note and still "cover" the tune, depending on your style.

Think about the difference between a stride player like James P. Johnson and a more modern guy like Bill Evans. Johnson was defining the chord very clearly with roots and fifths in his left hand, but if you listen to Evans' solo stuff the tonality of a given chord is sometimes not even represented by the root.

To me, this is the beauty of jazz: all the things you can leave out, and still make the music happen (but of course, you have to be able to put it in before you leave it out, that's the hard part.):-)

[jpgray]

11. All good bits of advice so far

Definitely remember that less can be more--if you know that the bass player is laying down a root, you don't need to plonk that bass note every chord you hit. Try out the inversions for different color, play stuff you like over and over trying different voicings and different keys to find what you like and what you don't. And memorize your triads in the circle of fourths. :D

[Don Claybrook]

12. Thanks to you and to everyone

For once I'm glad that this is a slow-moving forum. It's always easy to find this thread when practicing so as to try some of the stuff listed.

I'm trying to memorize the II-V-I 7th chords in the circle/cycle of 4ths/5ths.

And this will be about the most obvious thing you've heard all day, but with practice, that which used to be difficult is no longer difficult. I assume that this pattern will hold true in the future with those things that seem too difficult now.

Finally, I know less can be more, but for whatever reason, I just love that thick, dense sound of a fully-articulated chord.

Thanks for your reply.

[ProfessorGAC]

13. One More Suggestion, Don

Actually two, but they're both related to II-V-I changes.

First, try playing the 9th of the V and the major 7th of the I. For instance, Gm7, C9 (just E - Bb - D), and the FM7. That adds a very nice four tone character to those changes.

Secondly, the turn around of the II-V-I changes is something that really sounds cool. Play the m7 of the minor third, followed by the 9th of the major 6th. In the example above, it would be an Am7 followed by a D9. Then resolve to the M7 of the I. It's a really nice shift in tone and angle in the music.
The Professor