How pathetic. Let's just stop this crap. The pedals thread.

[chaska]

A bunch of people on that thread (and they are certainly not exceptional in exhibiting this behavior among guitar players), everybody is all "I don't use pedals this, or I only use that, or just a touch of delay", yada... First of all, if you use just a touch of delay or chorus - those are effects.

But the point is, why are you all of the mindset that effects are a crutch. Good god, I've been playing for over thirty years and that BS was around when I started. Look, either you can play or you can't and being defensive about pedal use is just lame.

I use pedals not because I need 'em (who does?), but because I like 'em.

I've seen a lot of musicians in my day, and I'm telling ya, that sort of attitude is usually held by the very lame. As in, can't play.

Drop the pretense. Please.

Sorry, this came off as such a rant. I really didn't intend it that way. It is a pet peeve, but I'm only half as annoyed as I seem.

[johnnie]

1. Too bad you feel that way

Most people I know use effects and I think that's great. I mess with them, but I am usually plugged right into my amp. I didn't notice many people saying anything about them being crutches. Maybe I should read the thread again.
And to be honest..I am not a good guitar player by no means, and I am the first one to laugh about it. Maybe you should meet more musicians before you say that sort of attitude is usually held by the very lame. I don't like a lot of effects because I don't like a lot of effects. It's as simple as that.
Guitarists crack me up.

On edit I wanted to add...the thread was about effect "boxes". Not effects.

[Jamastiene]

29. I don't use a lot of effects either.

My amp (an old Mesa/Boogie 50 Caliber +) has reverb, disortion and an EQ. That's all I need for live music in a rock band. Now, for the new age stuff I want to record, I would like some cheap effects. I once had a Korg A2 rack mounted processor, but I sold it. Worst mistake I ever made. At the time, I didn't need it though. Rock music played in a club just doesn't require than many effects. Most people in clubs where I played didn't know the difference anyhow.

[bullimiami]

2. Im not sure what the peeve is exactly.

I could care less. For me I like a guitar to be a guitar. Effects are fine or not.
The silly thing is when people have so many effects that they cant operate them without confusion.

Seems like a lot of the rigs the working players (the pros, lets say) use have a pretty fair share of effects, mixed guitar pedals and studio rack stuff, and switching with a bradshaw rig or something.

eh. I dont care. I do like flangers, I started way back with Black Sabbath and Led Zeppelin so im pretty fond of distortion. i dont mind a wah sometimes. im not really big on reverbs and echo before the amp because it muddies up the sound. I prefer that to be added at the mixer.

just my not really needed couple of cents.

[stimbox]

3. I love pedals

I threw away my guitar 10 years ago and just play the pedals.
They sound better with out the geetar.
http://www.harshnoise.com/
http://noisemp3.com/artists/stimbox

[jdots]

4. and speaking of cup cakes

i have a collection of the worst effects ever made,ring modulators,bad distortion stomp boxes and a guy i know is putting them into a program for pro tools. DUH ! some people will buy anything.

[bullimiami]

8. You can make some of the god-awfulest noises ever

with a ring modulator.

[LifeDuringWartime]

12. i love ring mod

:freak:

[Beware the Beast Man]

14. That's beautiful, man!

I just downloaded some songs off your page. I think my skull is broken. Fantastic!

[leftist_rebel1569]

31. fucking awesome

Screw shredding 64th notes at insane tempos, I like pedals because I'm all about texture.

[leftofthedial]

5. if you use anyting other than a stock Tele

and a Fender amp

you suck, dewd . . .

what a crock.

the only question is, does it sound good?

Yes or no.

that's it.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

6. It's all about the noise

whether you use something or nothing..I like em..love my cry baby too!

[Pepperbelly]

7. Give me a break ...

I use effects on my amp rather than stomp boxes because they are too confusing for my old scarred brain during performance. What I do, if there is any magic, comes from what I get plugging straight into my amp. Plus, too many patch cords confuse me as well.

No "purist" here. I like sounds and the sounds I prefer for me are those that happen to the signal INSIDE of the amplifier rather than the signal from the guar to the amp. And even that isn't dut and dried. I use an Alesis Nanoverb as a preamp to make a hotter signal into the amp but I do not add any of the Alesis effects into the mix. I use it to add punch to the 'dry' signal and make it 'wet' inside the amp.

[DeepGreen]

9. Its the feeling for me with or without pedals.

The feeling I get when playing is what drives me, and there are
a number of contributors: are my hands strong and limber,
can I feel what I am doing, what I hear in my head - will it
smoothly move through my hands, is what I hear reflecting my
feeling at the time - not just noise, do I see smiles from those
that are listening. Those are the factors important to me and what
can make for a great feeling from the music or pure frustration and numbness. Sometimes a good effect helps, sometimes a few beers help,
sometimes the blues help, sometimes inspiration from
music/a movie/a story/a picture/.... helps. If I can get into the feeling and express it then I am happy. Do I care how many effects or guitars, or amps, or instruments someone has - NO! I care about what gets me there. And if I can get there, be true to myself and others enjoy it, feel it, want it, then I am in another world.

[Pepperbelly]

10. yep ... have you ever noticed ...

that when you play for people, they enjoy it even though you can feel your fuck-ups DEEPLY ... a chord that you didn't quite nail, a note you miss in a solo, a mis-judgement on which note you need (a stinker ... I love 'em), a missed cue, a strum-rhythm that you fuck up for a beat or two.

It's strange but they don't seem to notice.

Pardon the random monologue. But it is early Saturday morning, I have drank my coffee and taken herbal relaxation remedies ( :smoke: ) and all is good as I woolgather and laze my ass around.

[DeepGreen]

11. You bet !

It is so nice to finish a set knowing that I made some
big fuck ups and have people come up to me and say
how they really liked the music - and get from the
them a truely good energy. That kinda smooths
me through the depression.

[Beware the Beast Man]

13. Yikes...the musicians forum's first potential flame thread!

ALERT! ALERT! :evilgrin:

[DeepGreen]

15. COME ON - COME ON----

LET'S HAVE A FLAME !!!! DAMN RIGHT !!!!!
:bounce: :) :bounce: :) :bounce:

[NoodleBoy]

16. No, you're wrong! HOWARD DEAN SUCKS!

[Jamastiene]

30. That would be me who starts it.

All I said was that I don't need effects for live performances. I'll bet someone jumps down my throat for that. I'm pushing the sleeves of my plaid shirt up now. :evilgrin:

[ProfessorGAC]

17. Who Said That?

I must have missed something. I didn't see anyone say anything negative about effects. I know i mentioned i only use a wah, but obviously that is a huge tonal effect, so i have no attitude about it. Also, i mentioned that i use a digital delay/reverb, 'cuz i didn't like the one built into the amp.

But, i will still stand by my reason: I used so much highly involved technology in my keyboard rig that i wanted to streamline the set up as much as possible. So, guitar, wah, amp, is a nice streamlined set up that is simple to maintain, simple to set up, and still gives me a wide array of tonal options.

But, i'm no purist. Purists don't use wah pedals.
The Professor

[Beetwasher]

18. Pfft! You All Suck!

Anything other than acoustic is for PUSSY'S! :evilgrin:

[Ron Green]

19. There's some truth in that....

Lots of guitar players put lots of energy into this kind of pedal or that kind of effect (or even certain kinds of guitars and amps) when they could be practicing scales. Doing the boring stuff is what makes a great musician, not acquiring goodies.

[ProfessorGAC]

22. What About Those Of Us Who Do Both?

I am a scalar player. Highly linear and very fast. I'm also a shredder. Don't know scales & modes, can't be a shredder!

Yet, i am also highly conscious of tone and tonal pallette. So, i don't think the two are mutually exclusive.

No?
The Professor

[Ron Green]

23. I guess they're only mutually exclusive in that there's a finite amount of

time and energy avaiable for music. I'm thinking of young aspiring musicians who are concerned about what types of sounds they can make with their guitars, and spend lots of time trying to "sound like" their guitar heroes, some of whom aren't really worth emulating. Most of the young guys don't listen to Joe Pass or Johnny Smith (or Bill Frisell or Clint Strong, for that matter), 'cause that's not their kind of music. But that's how you learn to really get around on the guitar, in my opinion.

[ProfessorGAC]

25. I Get It

I'm not a young musician, so i didn't see that perspective. But, i'm a rock guitarist, with jazz sensibilities, so i try to incorporate everything i know into my playing. (Trained as a jazz piano player for a million years!) My bebop background still has me trying to scramble eggs and play lots of fast, linear runs. Can't do that if i don't know the neck! So, i completely agree that it's "practice, practice, practice".

That being said, i still consider tone to be critical to the overall style. (Tal Farlow sounds nothing like Howard Roberts, Eric Gale, or Jim Hall, for instance. Not just because of phrasing but because the guitars themselves are tonally different.)

So, i kind of think one needs to be concerned with both in equal measures if one really wants to be a skilled player.
The Professor

[Swamp Rat]

24. Opposites collide

I'm a matrix multiplication player. Highly nonlinear and kinda slow. I do know scales and modes but no shredding because I like my cheddar whole. Since we are both highly conscious of tone, I don't think we are mutually exclusive. :D

[ProfessorGAC]

26. LOL!

Kinda slow! Not many guitarists have the guts to admit that! My background in hard bop jazz (piano) has created that in me. I want to play "too many notes"! And, the oblique aspects of modal playing allows me to not be too predictable. So, there's a million notes and some surprises. But, my tone is sweet, too!

I was also just kind of kidding around with the original comment. But, honestly i do believe one must have technique and tone.
The Professor

[Swamp Rat]

27. Well, after I did a masters in classical guitar I decided to put the

guitar away for a long time. I went on to learn Brazilian percussion which is what I mostly play now. After reading about guitars here I got nostalgic and played a little Villa-Lobos (I can still remember some decent pieces), and I guess I'll be playing a bit over the holidays. Too bad I don't have time to practice since I'm working on a PhD in the social sciences and I'm trying to learn how to edit video - I have about 60 hours of video of live music from Brazil, much of it jazz.

Yeah, I turned into a "technique monster" after years of rigorous classical guitar training, but a car accident ended that. It's OK though, it made me move on to other instruments for a while. Now if I really had time, I'd break out my trumpet and clarinet and try to re-live my elementary school days. :)

[no name no slogan]

20. Yeah, and if you don't finger pick, you are a pansy!

Are you a "pure" finger player, or must you rely on the crutch that is known as the "pick" (or "plectrum", depending on where you're from).

All you flatpickers aren't REAL players because you depend on that little plastic crutch clutched between your index finger and thumb.

Buncha blasted pansies!!! :evilgrin:

[chaska]

21. Ha, you still use strings? A guitar makes a darn nice drum.

[SlavesandBulldozers]

34. have you ever tried an acoustic pedal?

it's basically a shoebox.

(i'm not funny, i know)

[0rganism]

28. at first I thought you were talking about organ pedals or pedal steel gtr

Perhaps a vigorous discussion of sustenato use on a piano?

:shrug: Effects, no effects, few effects, it's all okay if the player is up to it and getting what s/he wants. I've done some good ambient material that's almost all effects, and I've done clean and accoustic stuff that's just as enjoyable. It's all about how they're applied, IMHO.

One line of reasoning I've heard against stomp boxes and even some rack effects is that they muddy the clean sound, due to poor signal pass-through. This is more a matter of the quality of the effects and the patch cables than the notion of using an effect in the first place.

What I consider a much stronger argument is that most effects are just stand-ins for a lack of the original cause -- i.e., cheap imitations of something else. Distortion is, at heart, an imitation of overdriving the preamp stage in a tube amplifier, so stomp-box distortion often needs to be compressed when playing loud enough to actually overdrive the amplifier. Delays and reverbs are frequently used to imitate the accoustics of playing in a large space, which can be fatal if the player doesn't know enough to turn them off before gigging in a real large space. I've lost count of amateur bands who've been caught napping on stuff like this. Guitarists who sound great in practice sessions suddenly sound like wet shit on stage.

This is, I think, at the heart of the anti-effect zealotry that has swept through a lot of the "dry" players. They avoid many of the problems that plague careless effects users. At the same time, they're passing up a few things that could really help. So it's a tradeoff. Overall, I'd rather have the effects available and choose when to use them.

[leftist_rebel1569]

32. Who cares?

Seriously. Let people use pedals for what they want. If they suck, then they suck. The more time you spend bitching about things like this, the less time you have to make yourself a better musician.

[leftofthedial]

33. I'm so good, I hire someone to use pedals for me

I wish I could find a "taste" pedal