VENT -- I'm so discouraged by my country, and "progressives"

[bobbolink]

Even with Obama very clearly going more and more to the right, even after the crap with LIEberman, here are people who want to be seen as soooo liberal, and soooo progressive, supporting Obama fullbore.

I just don't get it.

What does it take?

What didn't people learn from LIEberman?

What didn't people learn from the whole DLC mess?

Every time I see one more piece of evidence of what Obama will do to this country, I get more and more down.

I've gotten through to a couple of people about the wider issues, but....

It seems like mass hypnosis to me.

Anyone else?

[Two Americas]

1. the truth

I think that there is now nothing to lose by telling the truth about this.

The Democratic party, liberal organizations and progressive causes are all dominated by people who are in the upper 10% household income bracket. This does not make them bad people, but it does cause a distinct bias. These people - the ones with access to more resources and who have the time to put into political activism relatively painlessly, are not sympathetic to the plight of the other 90%. Yes, they have more humane attitudes and a more rational approach to politics than the Republicans, and they believe this to be important - "any Dem is better than the Republicans, and you are crazy if you can't see a difference between the two parties!" they say. No, one isn't crazy to see little difference between the parties, one is probably poor, and is probably more concerned with surviving then they are with their "personal values." What about the "personal value" of caring for the less fortunate? I see many liberals who are much more generous and compassionate about pets then they are about the poor. Dogs and cats touch their heart strings - human beings not so much.

The most domineering and visible Democratic activists have the same views about economics and the poor as the Republicans do, and this is revealed by the comments they make. They imagine themselves to be the "middle" and think that they are representative of America, and that people who are below them, are "losers" or have made the "wrong choices" or are "mentally ill" or are "stupid" or are "lazy" or otherwise have no one but themselves to blame for their problems.

Many of these people think they are politically to the left because of their support for the liberal causes, all of which have gradually been transformed onto upper class causes. Abortion? For the well-off, yes, while poor women have little if any access to any kind of health care at all. Organic? Yes, for those who can afford it, and let the peasants eat food from China and Mexico. The environment? Sure, save pristine wilderness areas while the poor live in toxic waste dumps and public parks in poor neighborhoods fall into disarray and neglect. Gun control? Only for the poor - another excuse for the cops to harass minority people - while the upscale people have their armed private security and superb suburban police forces armed to the teeth - all of that to protect them from us - the rabble. GLBT rights? For the well-off, while poor people struggle to keep their families together and support them.

Now we have a candidate who not only has the courage to speak about the traditional Democratic party principles and ideals - who represents a true alternative to the big business interests and to the needs of the wealthy and their wannabe allies, those in the $90,000 - $150,000 household income bracket. Not only that, Edwards is solid on all of the upscale progressive causes that are so near and dear to those in that upper 10% income bracket. Yet still there is deep resistance to his candidacy - outright vicious hostility and sabotage - from that same small but very dominant group of Democrats. Here at DU, there are probably 10 Edwards supporter for every Edwards hater, yet the haters manage to get so much attention that you would think the split were 50-50 instead of 90-10.

Are the upscale Democrats actually willing to lose the election to the Republicans rather than let the poor people have a seat at the table? I think they are. The same people who insisted on Kerry because he was "electable" - based on thin air - now ridicule any talk of Edwards being electable, even though it is solidly documented. The same people who said "don't get me wrong I would support Kucinich if he had a chance" now will not support a candidate who does have a chance.

I think it behooves us to face the truth. Just as there is a haves versus have-nots divide in the country, so, too, there is the same divide within the Democratic party. Just as the Republicans represent the interests of the wealthy few, so, too, those who are most dominant in the Democratic party also represent the better-off people.

[bobbolink]

3. "Dogs and cats touch their heart strings - human beings not so much."

BINGO!!

:applause:

If I only had four paws, I'd have MANY more options!

And, a lot of love.

:(

[Andrea]

15. It saddens me to say this,

but I think you are really right. There is a huge class divide in this country. We as Democrats are not immune to it. I work in a company that is blatantly classist. There are three classes. The warehouse workers are on the bottom. The tech people and administrative people are in the middle (that's where I am). The execs are on top. Most of them are millionaires. They have absolutely no empathy for any of us in the middle and they don't seem to regard the warehouse workers as human. It makes me angry and bitter. It makes it hard for me to maintain my attitude of peace toward all.

What we have in our favor is our sheer numbers. We must find a way to leverage that. That's very hard to do when the elections are rigged, but in my opinion we have to do it or kiss our country goodbye.

[Two Americas]

2. specific answers

Even with Obama very clearly going more and more to the right, even after the crap with LIEberman, here are people who want to be seen as soooo liberal, and soooo progressive, supporting Obama fullbore.

They want right wing politics, with a thin veneer of feel-good liberal causes. They can't say that, and that is why we can't get a straight answer out of them, and why they go through so many bizarre convolutions to justify their support.

I just don't get it.

We can't get it, because they are lying.

What does it take?

Understanding that there is a small but very powerful, domineering and vocal minority of people among the activists who are not telling the truth and who are trying to blur the issues, create a continual uproar, confuse and divide people and silence the true voice of the party and the people. Expose them, and keep telling the truth to the rest of the people.

What didn't people learn from LIEberman?

What didn't people learn from the whole DLC mess?

Almost everyone - 90% of us - learned what we needed to learn from that. The 10% making all of the noise wants to move the party to the right and to deny the other 90% a voice.

Every time I see one more piece of evidence of what Obama will do to this country, I get more and more down.

For the well-off upscale and profoundly conservative Democrats, they would rather be right than win - even though they accuse us of that. They would rather lose than give us a seat at the table. They would rather make "liberal" statements and sneer at and confront the other side than make practical political progress. Electing a Black president - or actually running a Black man and losing - is the sort of statement that people who are not hurting enjoy making. They are not interested in real change, they just want to be right and most of their opposition to the Republicans is actually aristocratic condescension and superiority. They hate the poor people, and the blue collar working people, as much as they hate the Republicans.

It seems like mass hypnosis to me.

Not really hypnosis - people are being lied to - cleverly, incessantly, aggressively.

There is a small minority of people controlling the Democratic party who are sabotaging the party, and who are fighting for the party to represent them - the upper 10% and well-off liberals - and not the other 90% of the people. That battle for the heart and soul of the Democratic party is more important then the fight against the Republicans, because that conservative faction in the Democratic party is what is causing the Republicans to win.

Lying and bullying are what we are up against. Call people on their lies - calmly and rationally - and resist the bullying - calmly but firmly. For each one of us, there are thousands of people who feel the same way that we do, but who have been bullied and intimidated into silence.

[bobbolink]

4. I"d like to put this in a pamphlet, and distribute to ALL DEM meetings and headquarters!

Even better, I'd love to see you as speaker all over the country, to Dem organizations!

This is HUGE, and you are saying what needs to be said.

Even though they don't want to hear it.

[bobbolink]

5. I'm printing this out for my fledgling little Edwards group here.

This will warm the hearts of those of us who are so very tired of being the bottom rung of the ladder, and being walked on.

Thank you so much!

:pals:

[Two Americas]

8. thanks bobbolink

Glad to help you anyway I can. I have thought about these things for a long time, and the Edwards candidacy finally gives me an opportunity to express my thoughts.

I have spoken about this to hundreds of audiences around the country, always in the poor neighborhoods so my work has been ignored by the glamorous "somebodies," and of course I am just another nobody myself - no investment portfolio, no credentials, no fancy degrees or titles or position or status. Everywhere I went - in little churches in small towns in the South, in poor Catholic parishes in Chicago, in rural farm communities - the message has always been enthusiastically received. You know where I ran into resistance and hostility? Among the upscale suburban liberals and party activists, that is where.

I am convinced that the people, the poor people, the working people, are far more progressive and liberal and to the left than the party activists and bigshots are, and that the idea that it is the sheeple who need to wake up is false. It is the activists and party leaders who need to wake up.

The people are awake. They lack leadership. Leaders who are on the side of the people are marginalized or silenced, and the people who lead the party and dominate it right down to the local level are deeply antagonistic to the people.

This is just the opening skirmish, and we are far ahead of where we were a year ago. There is no going back now. Whatever happens to the Edwards candidacy, he has lit a flame that won't go out.

[AndyA]

6. Sometimes I feel like I'm doing battle with the Hillary and Barack supporters.

They post these glowing paragraphs about how great their candidate is. And I read them and think, "Wait a minute. Barack is a bigot. He allowed McClurkin an audience to preach his "prayer cured me of homosexuality" bull. Of course, Barack said he didn't agree with McClurkin, but he allowed him an audience anyway.

And we all know where Hillary comes from. She never met a lobbyist she didn't like, and she LOVES their money!

And we expect these two to bring real change to our country?

I've asked repeatedly how either can do so when they owe the very entities that are responsible for most of the bad in this country. The silence has been deafening. Neither their campaigns nor their supporters can answer that question.

How can you take millions from an industry, and then once elected turn around and enact laws detrimental to the profits of the companies in that industry? You can't. Because you OWE THEM. And they KNOW you owe them.

I think there are as many Kool-Aid drinkers in the Democratic Party as there are in the Republican Party. :(

[Two Americas]

7. failed approach

We can't really know where Clinton or Obama or their supporters stand on anything because they won't be straightforward about that. I strongly suspect that they are basically Republicans on the issues that matter most, with a fig leaf of advocacy for liberal causes to differentiate themselves from the Republican party. If we accuse Obama of being a bigot, we just get into more pissing matches with them and the issues get buried.

What we can say is that the approach they are taking - cautious, pandering, centrist, compromising - is at odds with the traditional Democratic party principles and ideals, and we can also say that it has failed. The public does not perceive a genuine alternative to the Republicans in either of those candidates.

Some Democrats do not want the Democratic party to be a genuine alternative to the Republicans - life is pretty good for them, they hate poor people and blue collar people, and they only want to tweak things a little for their benefit and don't really care what happens to the bottom 50% of the people in the country. I actually hear them saying things loke" well if things get really bad here my husband and I will cash out our retirement, sell our house and move overseas. (Must be nice!!!) Until then I am belligerently and aggressively pushing the centrist pro-corporate Dem."

Others are just swept along in the "practicality" and "winning" and "better than the Republicans" propaganda, and don't have the skills or the fortitude to confront the bossy bullies and control freaks.

[adnelson60087]

9. As a black man it breaks my heart not to be able

in good conscious to support Obama, but he's not progressive. He seems to be more moderate than Hillary, and that's just too damn republican for me. My family is supporting him because he's black and can win... regardless of his actual positions. It's very discouraging at times.

[lisainmilo]

10. I am saddened today

The Edwards campaign is not doing well. I realize that most just listen to the 5 o'clock news, most don't even read a newspaper. It seems this election is based on sound bytes and who can buy the most. Money, greed is the root problem affecting and infecting the middle class. I am a progressive. I will not be affected economically too badly by the outcome of this election, not because I am rich, but I am comfortable and I don't require much. Sadly, wholeheartedly, I think many will be affected. The housing market is just the beginning. Bush is going to give us a stimulus package from money we don't even have. The corporate ownership of the American public in all aspects of our everyday lives is winning. My prayer, I hope to eat every one of these words and by some whisper of a miracle JREs' campaign pulls through.
One good thing his message has been followed by the others, as the orginal "change" candidate he has brought forth the problems we are facing.

[Two Americas]

11. many positive signs

Edwards is running a smart campaign, making a much smaller war chest go a long way. He is picking up a disproportionate share of delegates by selectively focusing on the districts where he picks up the most delegates in relation to the popular vote, and not wasting time and money on areas where Clinton and Obama are concentrating their efforts and he cannot compete. He is letting Obama and Clinton rip each other apart and burn through their millions fighting eacg other.

That is the campaign, and I think it is going as well as we could expect at this point. It is a long shot, sure, but there is a long ways to go yet. Here and there people are coming up with innovative ways to overcome the media blackout and the funding shortfall. If that keeps happening it will be the most important factor in the success of the Edwards campaign.

But there is a more important campaign going on. That is the campaign for the heart and soul of the party, and the campaign to get the forgotten people in the country a voice and visibility. That will go on no matter what happens in this primary season, and I think that will succeed and that there is no going back now.

[adnelson60087]

12. I hope you're right TwoAmericas...

but our Democratic leaders don't really seem to believe what they say they stand for. If not for John and Dennis K, they would just DLC us like they did in the 90's and push the have-nots further to the edge of society. Republicans are probably happy that our base is distracted by star-dom in Hilary and Obama, and not steeped in the Substance of John Edwards. I just feel our party is making a huge mistake and missing a generational opportunity to make America the way we'd really like it to be.

[Two Americas]

13. the opportunity

That is a really good point and I agree with you completely - "our party is making a huge mistake and missing a generational opportunity."

I think one of two things will happen. The party will seize this opportunity, or it won't. Either way there will be an upheaval. It is the in between that has been killing us.

[Andrea]

14. Hilariously ironic

The ad at the bottom of this page - at least at this moment - says "I make over $1000 an hour. Find out how." and has a picture of a guy with currency coming out his pocket.