AN IMPORTANT QUESTION-IF NOT JOHN, WHO????

[ClericJohnPreston]

I am still numb and in mourning. I am at a loss to explain the very clear POLITICAL plays that went on behind the scenes, while we were still fighting for our candidate.

Someone made a deal, which is very unpalatable for me. It appeared John had a legitimate opportunity to LOCK UP the votes and force a brokered Convention. The Rezko matter isn't going to vanish. Any deal made with Obama is written with diappearing ink, as I suspect his candidacy may run into future troubles. I personally, cannot accept joining a "cult of personality", with a candidate who has no experience and little credibility. His followers are for the most part, automotons, bordering on "Freeper" level nastiness.

I won't willingly cross into Obamaland. I value my intellect, and though Corporate, HRC, does not seem to have problems where truth is concerned and she is battle-tested. Obama shows a knack for breaking promises and TRASHING the left wing of our Party.

Who are you switching to? Why?

I'm confused....and mourning.

[lisainmilo]

1. Me too!

Nobody defined my values as JRE has. I know what is up and that is the Bush agenda. My dad says he will now vote for Hillary. I predicted when, JRE not getting coverage that, what I call the "machine" wants a Hillary vs. McCain. With realization of that I feel I am being forced into voting for >*)*&&(*&. On the other hand, Obama does not reflect my ideals. I agree with you he lacks substance, but alot of people seem to think he can bring about change. I have no answers. :eyes:

[ClericJohnPreston]

3. Bring "Change"

To Obama, it is a cynically used buzzword, with no meaning.

Everything about the guy is disingenuous. Do I choose someone who is either so naive, he believes he can take in Repubs into his campaign, without destroying the left wing of our Party, once and for all? Worse, is that he truly is a moderate/ comservative, dressed cynically in Progressive words.

HRC may be Old Guard and Corporate, but Republicans HATE her. They don't hate Obama. If Republicans hate HRC, that says something to me.

The Obama LOVE is all machine, all orchestrated, and absolutely untested.

[Andrea]

44. I agree with you about Obama

But not about Hillary.

Rank and file Republicans hate her, but not the elite. They support her. They want her. That is why they have conspired with the media the last few years to shove her down our throats. If we vote for her, we are playing into their hands. They want her so much that I am sure it is because she has signed onto their agenda. And if you look at her voting record, it certainly seems she has.

Sadly, there is no one running at this point that I can support.

[iris5426]

2. Since I don't think he will be on the ballot in PA

I will probably write him in...I'll vote for the nominee in the fall, I think, but neither Hillary or Obama do anything for me and I can't see voting for them in the primary

[Lugnut]

24. He probably won't be on the ballot.

I have petitions in hand and ready to go for a weekend push to get signatures. I just tossed them in the trash can. :(

[Yael]

62. I have a note into the group that has been coordinating us in gathering sigs

Likely they won't pay the fee to the state, so if that is the case, I will be writing him in as well.

[Seabiscuit]

4. My wife and I plan on writing in John Edwards.

I can not see supporting someone like Obama who is nothing but a media created celebrity on par with being the Britney Spears/Paris Hilton of politics. At this point in time, there is no second choice for me.

[AndyA]

5. I have no idea who I'm going to vote for.

In my view, Hillary is a corporate whore, and I'm not thrilled about extending the Bush-Clinton-Bush-Clinton Dynasty for 36 years. That's FOUR DECADES almost of just two families in the top positions in government. Sounds a bit too "morarchy" to me.

And Barack is just a mobster crony, in my view. A hypocrite and bigot because of the Donnie McClurkin deal. And he doesn't think Bush/Cheney have committed any grave breaches of authority, and therefore, is against impeachment.

Starting a war based on lies isn't a grave breach?
Spying illegally on American citizens isn't a grave breach?
Outing a covert CIA agent during a time of war isn't a grave breach?
Torturing prisoners isn't a grave breach?

Do I really want someone with this attitude for President? No I do not, and neither should any logical, responsible American citizen.

This sucks. It really does.

[Beaverhausen]

6. I think I'm leaning Hillary - and I can't believe I'm saying that.

With me, it's a personal backlash for all the hero-worship going on where Obama is concerned.

I am totally in shock though.

[MzNov]

7. Probably we should all wait a day or so to digest this bad news.

I'm confused too, but leaning toward Obama. Hillary comes with the DLC and Bill, and I don't think we can take any more free trade agreements. She is just too close to Bush in some policies.

But, then again..... Obama seems too young and .... ah well.

:cry:

[Beaverhausen]

9. I heard something about Obama that I didn't know= he never takes questions at his events

and as we know, all those "amazing" speeches he gives are written and read off of teleprompters.
Whenever he speaks off the cuff he seems to compliments republicans. What is up with that? How can we support him? I think I will have trouble with that.

[MzNov]

10. I think I heard that too. Which infuriates me. How dare he?

I am appalled at what I'm hearing on the morning progressive shows. Especially from white men. Now that Edwards is not running for Prez, they will VOTE FOR McCAIN before they would ever vote for Hillary should she win the nomination!!

We must not do this, and everyone should stop and remember just what McCain is and stands for. I'm starting to get really nervous.

[Lugnut]

25. That's what concerns me too.

I'd like to think I live in a progressive country where race and gender make no difference. As much as I hate it reality tells me otherwise. It stinks.

[Andrea]

47. McCain stands for War

Maybe he stands for other bad things, too, but definitely for war.

[Andrea]

46. I agree that waiting makes sense

I'm very emotional at this point. And scared. And feeling abandoned and betrayed.

That said, I'm wondering if it is time to revive the Draft Gore movement. If he is half as distressed as we are, maybe he will now get in as a third party candidate.

[bobbolink]

8. Nobody. The party has left me, and gives not a rip about us poor folk.

Neither of the two remaining candidates gives one shit about me and other poor folk, nor do their "supporters".

They can do without my vote, as I do without their support.

[saracat]

16. Mine too! At least on the Fed level.

[Andrea]

48. That's how I feel too.

They only care about the top 5% at most. Maybe the top 1%.

[asdjrocky]

11. Just waiting for my marching orders from John.

Then, we'll see.

[CaptJasHook]

12. I, too have to step back.

Funny enough, this weekend, with all of your help, I decided to back Edwards. I feel like I lost 100 bucks. But that is nothing compared to the time and energy most of you have devoted to John.

I have never believed that we can have a truly Progressive Presidential candidate. It takes a National tragedy on par with the Depression for that to happen. In other words, a lot more people will have to starve and a lot more businesses will have to fail and a lot more homes will have to be foreclosed before the anger of the people will rise up to threaten the rich.

I am still confused why people protest in the downtown cores and don't bring their marches to the Suburbs. WTF


At this point, I am going to vote for the candidate that is going to bring out the most Democrats... Progressives if we can get them. I don't give a shit who wins the White House, I am going to concentrate on local and state elections to build up a firewall against Federal (read Corporate) intervention.

[AdHocSolver]

35. We take back the party by putting true progressives in power at the local and state levels.

CaptJasHook wrote:

"I am going to concentrate on local and state elections to build up a firewall against Federal (read Corporate) intervention."

This is exactly where we have to start in order to take back the party from corporate control. We have to elect officials at the local and state level who will not be entirely "purchasable".

While it is true that the media's lack of coverage hampered Edwards' campaign, John had been picking up momentum going into Super Tuesday. My thought is that the Democratic party insiders (mostly the DLC types) had a strong "influence" on John's decision to suspend his campaign, because of their fears that he would do well on super Tuesday.

The more traction Edwards got, the more Clinton and Obama looked like losers to the people. The insiders in the Democratic party are split between Clinton and Obama. Edwards has been backed by the biggest enemy to the party insiders, the grassroots. (Remember Lamont versus Lieberman, among others?)

People have been concentrating on the takeover of the Republican party by the right-wing. They have totally ignored the takeover of the Democratic party by our own "right-wing". Howard Dean's campaign was grassroots and was basically shut down when the party insiders anointed Kerry the nominee. They put one of their own in place based on the illusion that "anyone" can beat Bush. The same mentality seems to be operating for this election. The only difference is that there are two factions of insiders each supporting a different candidate.

Clinton and Obama policy-wise are a choice between Tweedledum and Tweedledee. The biggest concern at this point is which one of them would most likely give the White House to a Republican, and then vote for the other one. I have problems with both of them, which is why I was so enthusiastic about Edwards, even beyond his platform.

We will have to see what happens on super Tuesday. Up until now, my thought has been that Clinton would bring out the most right-wingers to vote against her. Edwards beating Clinton in Iowa gives me reason to think that Edwards would take more votes away from Clinton than Obama in the coming primaries. That fact has influenced my supposition where the pressure on Edwards to suspend campaigning came from.

[bobbolink]

42. I also believe it's hopeless. Unless/until EVERYONE suffers, and not just me and others like me,

people will continue to fiddle while Rome burns.


And while some of us die.


Oh, yeah, and laugh at us while they fiddle.

Fuck it.

[Andrea]

49. Right - state and local are the only hopes we have n/t

[Two Americas]

13. I am through

This is my last round up. I have been through this too many times.

Probably the rest of what I have to say is not permitted here.

[ClericJohnPreston]

14. I wish you would stay around Two Americas

Your articulate voice is needed. I too share your personal disappointment with all things political and Corporate. This forum, at least, allows us to voice, as adults, matters of great urgency which continue beyond politics.

[Two Americas]

17. I have to be honest with you

People will say stick around, keep fighting, get over your disappointment, don't be a quitter.

I am dead certain that it is the equivalent of an abused spouse crawling back to the abuser.

We tried to get out. We failed because the system is rigged against us. The cops wouldn't respond, they didn't take our complaints seriously, the hospital admitted our abuser to our room, our friends and relatives betrayed us and were sympathetic to the abuser because he is such a smooth operator. We are being told that it is not so bad, that he is getting counseling, and what about the children and how will we get money to support ourselves and where will we live? And we blame ourselves. Maybe we aren’t perfect and so we deserve what we get.

So we crawl back. Again.

I think many of us know that this is the truth. We are being asked to un-know that truth. I believe that this is where the battle is won or lost.

[bobbolink]

43. I agree completely with what you're saying, and I'm a "survivor" of abuse, if one can say

one is "surviving".

"We are being asked to un-know that truth."

Bingo! That fits in so many area of my life, and that includes politically.

I've been told now for years at DU that my vote isn't welcome or needed, so... what the fuck, they won't get my vote. I hope it makes 'em happy.

All I ask is that you stick around enough to help me with formulating a plan for poverty.

Because I really don't expect to survive this.

[saracat]

15. I am about there too,Two Americas. I may lurk but I am done with the candidates.

I have voted in my last Presidential election. I will vote the down line but i can't vote for corruption.I cannot.

[CaptJasHook]

19. Wait a second.

I am certainly sorry people are feeling a lot of pain today. There have been many times in my life where I have been severly disappointed. But I also look back at history and see that the progressive cause has never been easy. People have been shot, hanged, tortured. Union workers have been battered with baseball bats. Civil Rights workers have been hung, had dogs set loose on them and sprayed down with fire hoses. Socialists and Communists have been jailed, starved and interned in concentration camps.

I can fully understand that we all no longer support the Presidential candidates. I got it. But to give in? Instead, go back and hug your family, teach yours and your neighbor's kids your values, join your local PTA, drink beers with like-minded people, plant trees and paint the old lady's house down the street. That is what really makes a difference.

Nobody said it would be easy. That is why they call it a struggle. You fight for each inch of territory. And we HAVE won a lot of territory. And we WILL win back the territory we have lost in the last 30 years. And we will win back more.

We are Progressive because we believe in Progress. Not because we believe in John Edwards, Dennis Kucinich or any other individual.

Mourn, vomit, bang your fist against the wall. Then lets get back to the trenches.

Peace to you all.

[MzNov]

22. Amen!

Everyone do something special for yourselves today. Tomorrow we re=group and get these filthy, corrupt, murdering, torturing BASTARDS

OUT OF WASHINGTON.

they have trashed the country and the Landscape far far too long.

Just because our "leaders" are spineless, doesn't mean we are.

FIGHT ON !!!!!

[Two Americas]

38. the way you are framing this

You are framing this in a couple of ways CaptJasHook.

First, as a personal disappointment that we need to personally get over.

Secondly, you are saying that abandoning a failed method is the same as abandoning the fight.

Are those absolute givens?

I don't feel personally disappointed much. I am no more and no less worried today than I was yesterday about the future of the country and the fate of millions of people who are being tossed to the side of the road. We are now going to be tossed to the side of the road because we dared to speak for those people. What will disappoint me and sadden me is if Edwards quitting leads to everyone giving up on the cause. That is what we will be pressured to do. No one cares if we support the party candidate. They use that as an excuse to crush the message, to break us apart.

I also feel that embracing a failed method is what is tantamount to quitting.

[bobbolink]

50. I don't need lectures in "hanging in there".... done that for so many fucking years!

My party officially gives not one shit for me and other poor people, yet you want me to keep "trying"??

I think not.

They wanted me out.

They got it.

[ClericJohnPreston]

20. Two Americas and Saracat

You know how virulent an Edwards supporter I am.

I have far less faith than you have professed and frankly, feel more like changing my avatar to "V", for how I really think change must be affected now. I am asking you both to stick around, so that the dialogie of "how" can still be discussed. It is clear the deck is STACKED and the game is RIGGED.

We must somehow do something, or risk the inevitable outcome of a State that doesn't listen to the voice of the people.

Remember that line from "V"?

People shouldn't fear their Governments, Governements should fear their people.

[CaptJasHook]

23. Great (Small) Protest idea John.

Let's all change our avatar to V for the next week or so.

What do you all think?

[lisainmilo]

29. I will do that! NOW!

Good idea!

[CaptJasHook]

36. Crap, no V avatar

How do I upload my own. I tried entering a jpg from my pictures but it didn't work. What step am I missing?

[Two Americas]

26. ok

I think that if I speak freely now I run the risk of being tossed here. I think that silencing us was always the goal of those who control the party, and all of their sycophants at all levels of the party, and at some point it becomes a matter of being quiet or of being purged for being disloyal. It isn't the party or the front runner candidates we are being asked to be loyal to, it is a Republican lite philosophy that we must be loyal to. We know that in our heart of hearts, and to deny it is to go back on all of the things we have been saying here, everything we said we believed in.

I am more than willing to continue the discussion. I am not abandoning any of you ever. I am first and foremost loyal to the millions of left out and left behind people in the country, secondly to those of you who heard and responded to Edwards message, then to the principles and ideals of the Democratic party, and only after those was I loyal to Edwards, and I have no loyalty to those people controlling the party who are fighting against all of those things and people I am loyal to.

I cannot turn reality on its head yet again, deny my perceptions and deny the truth, and be loyal to a corrupted party leadership, and then promote their selected candidate, at the expense of being disloyal to the millions of left out and left behind people in the country, to those of you who heard and responded to Edwards message, and to the principles and ideals of the Democratic party.

I am going to dig up some quotes from Lincoln, because I think that so much he had to say applies to our situation today. I think that current politics resemble nothing so much as they do the politics of the 1850's and the Democratic party today resembles the Whig party from back then.

[AdHocSolver]

39. Change begins at the bottom. Get involved in local party work to change the insiders.

Party politics is based on cliques, just like any school or corporate environment. Each clique has a local "leader" who has a strong influence on each group. Even if you don't want to lead a group, by getting to know local leaders, you can influence them and actually affect party policy.

Don't give up. Get to work!

[Two Americas]

55. have been

Over 40 years of work in the local party.

Change begins at the bottom, unless it is repeatedly smashed out of existence from the top. The purpose of the local party offices is to get all of the "fish" in one barrel so they are easier to shoot.

There is a difference between giving up on a method, and giving up on a cause.

New methods, new arenas. That is where people don't want to go, and that is why we wind up in the same pickle again and again.

[CaptJasHook]

58. I think I understand where you are coming from now.

When you come up with a new and improved method. Please. Please find me online. Start a new thread... Whatever.

I think we need a revolution of ideas.

I also keep running through Patrick Henry in my mind.

Give me Liberty or Give me Death... Shit, are we really at that point?

[Two Americas]

66. The Democratic party

What do we do when an organization is no longer doing what it was intended to do? Thomas Jefferson had an answer for that question.

That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness."

What is it that the "unity" people who are calling for loyalty - that relatively small but powerful and domineering group of people who are determined to smash and destroy any vestige of the party's traditional principles and ideals - what is it they want from us? What would make them happy?

Lincoln pondered the same question in the 1850's. Then, slavery was the issue. Today it is economic domination by the few through the corporations.

What is it the pro-slavery people wanted from those opposed to slavery? What is it today that the pro-corporate people want from us? What will finally satisfy them?

"The question recurs, what will satisfy them? Simply this: We must not only let them alone, but we must somehow, convince them that we do let them alone. This, we know by experience, is no easy task. We have been so trying to convince them from the very beginning of our organization, but with no success. In all our platforms and speeches we have constantly protested our purpose to let them alone; but this has had no tendency to convince them. Alike unavailing to convince them, is the fact that they have never detected a man of us in any attempt to disturb them.

"These natural, and apparently adequate means all failing, what will convince them? This, and this only: cease to call slavery wrong, and join them in calling it right. And this must be done thoroughly - done in acts as well as in words. Silence will not be tolerated - we must place ourselves avowedly with them. Senator Douglas' new sedition law must be enacted and enforced, suppressing all declarations that slavery is wrong, whether made in politics, in presses, in pulpits, or in private. We must arrest and return their fugitive slaves with greedy pleasure. We must pull down our Free State constitutions. The whole atmosphere must be disinfected from all taint of opposition to slavery, before they will cease to believe that all their troubles proceed from us.

"Let us be diverted by none of those sophistical contrivances wherewith we are so industriously plied and belabored - contrivances such as groping for some middle ground between the right and the wrong, vain as the search for a man who should be neither a living man nor a dead man."

Today, the whole atmosphere must be disinfected from all taint of opposition to corporate domination, any and all advocacy for the have-nots, any and all promotion of the traditional principles and ideals of the party, before they will cease to believe that all their troubles proceed from us.

I believe that the crisis we face is as great as the one faced in the 1850's, and I believe that the political situation is just as volatile and unstable as it was then, and I believe that those who control the Democratic party are trying to do exactly what the leaders of the Whig party tried to do in the 1850's - "groping for some middle ground between the right and the wrong, vain as the search for a man who should be neither a living man nor a dead man."

[Two Americas]

73. let me re-phrase that....

If people are ready to fight, I am just getting warmed up.

If people are going to roll over yet again, I am through with that.

[bpeale]

18. no one. i won't vote for anyone but John

[MzNov]

21. Well, how about you vote for whoever picks him as a running mate??

It's still a path to the White House !!!!

:hi: :hug:

[Two Americas]

27. is that what it was all about?

Was it all about Edwards being a personality we were loyal to?

[MzNov]

34. Edwards has what we all wanted. We had no doubts about him

or not many. Now we are faced with 2 people who give us a long list of question marks. We have to accept this and try to make the most of it. I guess I just knew in my heart this day was coming, I just didn't expect it so soon. I still will support him in anything he does.

[paganlib]

28. I'm mourning also......

I'm not voting for Obama no matter what. I am really pissed at the democratic party right now for trying to make this election into what I see as a "let's feel good and pull together" race as opposed to "lets gets angry and do something about what's happened to America". So I don't know if I'm going with Clinton or writing in for Edwards. Edwards pretty much had my heart....

[Kolesar]

30. Clinton sold us peace activists down the river

She dismissed her duty to serve her constituents and has been angling to be the perfect centrist since her god damned Iraq War Resolution vote. She could have LED opposition that war. She didn't. She had her eyes on the November 2008 presidential election. To win, she needed a political position to satisfy the right wingers, and that position was "triangulation" on the Iraq War.

[Two Americas]

31. it won't work either

The really sad thing is that beyond the betrayal, beyond the squandered opportunity - selling out for the sake of "winning" - that approach won't even work.

[knight_of_the_star]

32. None of the above

Neither HRC or Obama have done anything to earn my vote and it doesn't look like they're going to. This Tuesday I cast my vote for Edwards damnit! HRC is too much of a damn tool and political coward for me and quite frankly Obama's kumbaya bullshit just doesn't do it for me, not when the pukes have been content with poisoned knives in the septic tank ever since '92. We needed a candidate who is a fighter, a warrior, a hero, not someone who will sell our principles for the sake of political expediency.

[ginnyinWI]

33. I'd say wait to see who he endorses.

I am a long-time Kerry supporter, so I feel your pain.

I was sad when JK decided not to run again this time. But I looked at the field and decided who I liked and arranged them in this order: Biden, Dodd, Obama, Edwards, Richardson, Clinton. Then Biden and Dodd dropped out, so it was Obama. Then Kerry endorsed him, which made my decision complete. Because the only hesitation I'd had about Obama was due to not having observed him for very long. Kerry's vouching for him made me sure he'd make a great president.

So wait to see who Edwards endorses. You'll be able to transfer your trust from him to whomever he picks to carry the mantle forward.

[ClericJohnPreston]

40. This is EXACTLY the WRONG MESSAGE...

sorry, but I'm going to use your post to make an important point.

Like Two Americas, I have a far more conspiratorial view of the politics that have played out these past few days, culminating in Edwards "sudden" departure from the scene. I can't help but feel, as I stated in my OP, that politics of some sort has reared it's ugly head in Edwards decision. It's obvious, made more so by John's failure to enumerate ANY rationale for his early departure.

Endorsements, for some odd political reason, have a disproportionate hold on the community. I for one, am absolutely IMMUNE to the entreaties of third parties for a candidate. Why? They are usually vanity statements or given for political benefit, such as lobbying for political favors down the line.

I look at a candidate INDIVIDUALLY. Does his/her policies work for me and the greater good of the Country? Who Britney Spears, if she had a brain, would vote for is meaningless. So, too, especially because of the patronage aspects, do I discount any former candidates or so-called "lions" of the party. Ted Kennedy is a dinosaur, representative of the status quo. John Kerry is a failed and flawed politician who folded quicker than France after 2004 Ohio.

Even without flaws, endorsements are meaningless! You might as well go and buy every item sold on TV, because you liked the commercial. Endorsements are the political equivalent. Rather, LISTEN and THINK about what a candidate says or doesn't say.

Obama is a media creation, carefully crafted and TOTALLY scripted. When he isn't on script,he is rude, arrogant and dismissive. His bona fides are outweighed by his self-serving business associations (REZKO) and his intimacy with Corporate America.

Remember, these candidates are all about image and buzzwords. CHANGE is not possible where secondary interests rule your agenda, or where you owe obligations because of selling your ideological soul for support.

I AM A REBEL. THUS MY AVATAR. (see "Equilibrium" ) If representative government is going to be ruled by a sell-out machine, it is time for that machine to be put of play. If this game has been tilted so only ILLUSION and appeals to the heart are the scraps parsed out to the Electorate, then someone has to show that these scraps are not the sustenance accepted by real partisans of a free society or the left wing of the Democratic Party.

I'm angry. This rebel wants some answers. We all deserve some.

[bpeale]

45. you rock!!! and you speak for me!!!

[Andrea]

51. RIGHT!!!

LISTEN and THINK!!

[Two Americas]

52. hear, hear

The Edwards campaign gave me the opportunity to speak for the poor and to speak out against corporate domination of our government and our country. It gave me an opportunity to quote FDR and to have people give his words serious consideration. That is gone, make no mistake about that. Eliminating a platform and a context within which we could raise those issues was the reason that the Edwards campaign needed to be suppressed, and it was.

The second good thing about the Edwards campaign is the way it was bringing people together. But already today we can see the split starting.

It is not the Edwards candidacy that we will be asked to "get over," we will be asked to deny and abandon the message of the Edwards campaign - it weill be demanded of us, or else. In fact, for the next 20 years people will be saying that advocacy for the poor has been discredited and rejected as a result of the failure of the Edwards campaign.

[ClericJohnPreston]

54. I truly believe Two Americas

that this Country's true divide, that of rich and poor, will not be properly addressed by the current candidates.

I don't know if a brokered convention is possible now, as with Edwards in, it was almost inevitable. Thus, a draft candidate is just mere wishful thinking at this point.

If Corporate America is left in control, you can be sure they will move to totally consolidate their control. If that happens, we are all lost. Rebellion will be too late in a society where Corporations act preemptively to silence it's critics.

[Yael]

63. This was beautiful

Good explanation on ego-dorsements.

Well drafted.

[Silver Gaia]

37. I just can't think about any of this today.

I'm going to be Scarlett O'Hara for a day... "I'll think about that tomorrow.."

[ClericJohnPreston]

41. I understand Joolz.

I'm really not asking a question about the remaining candidates, scraps, if you will.

My question is rhetorical and somewhat of a metaphor for a far deeper problem. If we have an Election which is being played out from a script,controlled by people we never elected ( CEO's of the power-elite mega corporations ), what do we do as just Americans?

PEOPLE SHOULDN'T FEAR THEIR GOVERNMENTS, GOVERNMENTS SHOULD FEAR THEIR PEOPLE.

I ascribe to the above belief that puts power in the hands of the governed, than in the hands of forces looking to usurp the people's power.

[Silver Gaia]

53. I understand where you're coming from, too, CJP.

But I just can't go there today. It's called self-preservation. There are things I MUST do yet today that require me not to allow myself to go beyond where I'm at right now without becoming nonfunctional and unable to attend to my personal responsibilities. I must also have time to process this internally before I can make any moves forward.

[ClericJohnPreston]

56. Two Americas

I have lost faith in the system as well. I am convinced there is a much larger picture than the narrow focus this story has received today. I refuse to believe that as short a time as two days ago, Edwards wasn't committed to going all the way to the convention.

If that is the case, what exactly did happen. From whom would he accept a "drop it" recommendation?

If our National Party is that nefarious, I want to know. You have navigated those waters and have a much better perspective. I have no desire to be held hostage by Corporate America, working through our political parties. Were that the case, it would be btime to create a viable Third Party.

I knew all this "was too good to be true". I always said, entrenched powers were not going to volunteer a loss of dominion and control. That is why I felt Edwards was always marginalized. Now he has been effectively, "rubbed out". You can be sure that both Obama and Hillary are owned by their corporate masters.

One other point. If the writing is on the walls and our collective voices are being neutralized, what path do we take when NO candidate speaks for us?

That is the most disturbing question....

[Yael]

64. Al Gore?

Thats all I have been thinking all day.

Not to mention -- they have something in common. They speak and act from the soul and this country isn't good enough for either of them.

[Andrea]

69. That's what I'm praying for, but

we have to prepare for otherwise.

[Yael]

70. My bad -- I wasn't clear

I think "The Call" may have come from Al Gore.

[Andrea]

71. That's interesting

Back in December when that bipartisan conference was held in Texas (on the record it was about civility, rumored to be about picking a third party candidate, attended by some big folks, Chuck Hagel, Sam Nunn and others - do you recall it?)I read somewhere that someone close to Gore said that unless Edwards was the nominee, Gore would advise Bloomberg to run as a third party candidate.

If that's true, and if Gore did make the call, that could mean various interesting things.

[Yael]

72. I was thinking of that today. Googled Bloomberg President

and there is a story out today talking about the rumors.

That was to be expected though -- just like Nader.

[ClericJohnPreston]

57. I'm also getting tired

of reading threads in GDP, by so-called Edwards supporters, jumping on the Obamination bandwagon.

You are folding faster than France in WWII.

[Nite Owl]

59. I have no idea

where to go or what to do at this point. Maybe after the debate tomorrow night things will be clearer but I sort of doubt that. All I know is that this country needed John and now it's just another election cycle. I will vote whatever dem is nominated but I just don't feel like following the process.

[sandyd921]

60. My dilemma

Obama -- there's no there there; a vacuous lightweight

Hillary -- a return to the DLC and more corporatocracy

I wonder if I will be able to still stand for John Edwards at my caucus? I'll vote for the Dem nominee in the general, but I haven't a clue what I'll do at the caucus.

[Yael]

65. Stand for your candidate, Sandy

We need to send a strong STRONG message to the party that they can't continue to just "assume" the progressives are a given to the chosen.

Let 'em sweat it.

:hug:

[sandyd921]

67. That's exactly what I'm thinking too Yael!

If we can't vote our conscience during caucus/primary season, when can we? I'm gonna do the right thing and stand for the only candidate who represents my progressive values, John Edwards! :hi:

[Yael]

61. John, forgive my french but fuck 'em

I am sticking with JRE in my primary. I will make a fresh decision when standing infront of the ballot box on Nov 6th.

Until then, I am an undecided "independent".

People like me used to be Democrats before the party exited stage right.

[waiting for hope]

68. Yael - YOU ROCK!

and I'm doing Ditto. I do not walk away easily.