Obama supporters are no more than the Democratic version of the sheeple of the GOP

[saracat]

who blindly followed Bush.They are frightening in their intensity and have the media aligned in exactly the same way Bush did during his ascendancy.Even liberal media have become no better than the Rush Limbaugh of the left. Does anyone else see the parallel?

I am afraid that the populace would just as blindly follow another sock puppet , which I believe the unqualified Obama is, to war as easily as they did BUSCHCO. I am fearful that it may be that the same masters are being served.Does anyone else wonder about this?
As of now, I actually have a greater comfort level with Hillary, from whom I "know" what to expect. She too has her corporate benefactors but we know who they are and how far she may go. Barack is an unknown and that is I suspect deliberate.

Hillary is also not immune from criticism. Yet Barak, like Bush before him is given a pass. I have got to ask why.

It used to be said that Bush could eat a live baby in Times square and the GOP would say, "Isn't that nice" ? We have a situation with Rezko and Kenya and a host of other issues and yet we are told "Move on, nothing to see here", and Barak continues to rack up endorsements from both sides of the spectrum with no questions asked.

I do not even dare post this in the big Forum, I would be pilloried. This isn't about Edwards.This is what I have felt for a long time. There are other forums and groups this is being echoed in , yet there is fear to speak. I am afraid.We should all question.

[Andrea]

1. I definitely agree

One thing that really creeps me out about both Obama and Clinton is the way they change their accents and speaking voices depending on their audience. It makes it seem like they are not even trying to hide that they are deliberately trying to manipulate the various factions of the public in an emotional way. Even George Bush doesn't switch his accent back and forth. Once he put on that phony Texas twang, he stuck with it. I feel like saying to both of them, For God's sake, just be honest about who you are. Harvard educated lawyers don't talk like southern preachers. Chicago-raised Yale lawyers don't talk like rural southern gals.

I know a lot about the Rezko situation with Obama, but not much about the Kenya deal. Wasn't it something about taking money for lobbying for a group or business from Kenya? Or am I completely mixed up? Can you fill me in, please?

[Silver Gaia]

2. I can't believe what I've been reading today.

Endorsements from Garrison Keilor??? Joan Baez??? The Grateful Dead organizing a concert for him??? WTF??? What the hell is going on??? I respected these people. :(

ETA: Ack. I meant to reply to the OP. But this thing with the accents is bizarre, Andrea. I hadn't noticed that... but I've been trying not to listen to them. I don't wanna get "mesmerized," or whatever the hell is going on. Scary.

[vanboggie]

4. I know

This whole pied piper thing creeps me out.

[saracat]

6. I knew something was really, really, wrong when Tom Hayden endorsed him.

then you have Joan Baez and the Greateful Dead? If they weren't joined by all the conservative Dems as well I wouldn't be so suspicious. It is just too much.Waaaay over the top. And the ease with which so many Edwards supporters have made this switch, some without a backward look! And I am not saying this as any form of "sour grapes".It is just astonishment. It simply "feels wrong".I am glad not to be alone.There are other forums on this Board where this has been noted but there is "fear" to make such statements.

I am now even hearing some conservatives talking him up! I woke up this morning to the thought that had Kerry even gotten a quarter of the support Barak is getting from the MSM, and the Party he would have been President.Something is not right.

[Two Americas]

34. I like those people

They are creative, intelligent, likeable. I spent a few hours alone with Joan Baez, back in the day at a sanctuary we set up for a resister and we talked through the night. She was a very nice person, very smart, and at that time very courageous and politically radical. Great people, easy to identify with - and if we confuse cultural identification with politics, we could follow their lead.

"A live dog is better than a dead lion" and those people are dead lions, sad to say. They have long since made their comfortable accomodations and compromises with "reality."

[saracat]

5. Actually , Bush's accent does go in and out .He also has conflicting phrases ,

like using the term "sunmmmering in Mainem which no Texan would ever use. But none of it bothers me as much as trhe messianic creepiness of Obama.

[Silver Gaia]

3. Wanted to address this, too:

I am afraid that the populace would just as blindly follow another sock puppet , which I believe the unqualified Obama is, to war as easily as they did BUSCHCO. I am fearful that it may be that the same masters are being served.Does anyone else wonder about this?

Yes. You are not alone.

As of now, I actually have a greater comfort level with Hillary, from whom I "know" what to expect. She too has her corporate benefactors but we know who they are and how far she may go. Barack is an unknown and that is I suspect deliberate.

This also echoes my own thinking. This, combined with the messianic fever, is scaring the crap outta me with Obama. Something just doesn't *feel* right. Like you, I feel MUCH more comfortable with Hillary than with him. Now is NOT the time to go with someone/thing unknown, untried, untested. I do NOT trust him at all. Nor do I trust all this hoorah.

[RestoreGore]

7. I agree. My grandmother had this saying:

It's better to stay with the Devil you know than the Devil you don't know. The absolute blind allegiance and idolization of Obama is turning me off big time. He is in NJ this morning at the Izod Center (which I wonder how he can afford all this if he is just running a "grassroots" campaign) acting as if he is some sort of rock star or revival preacher. To me that also harkens back to the same Neocon religious fervor displayed for Bush, and it is a bit scary. And while I do not particularly like Hillary Clinton, at least she's the "Devil we know" as opposed to Obama who is "the Devil we don't know." And having endorsements from Skull and Bones members doesn't exactly fill me with ease either. It will be a continuation of the status quo for sure. And make no mistake as to why he is focusing on young people... many who are naive, new to this process, and able to be played and swayed, even to like Republicans under the guise of "unity." Just the fact that they could so easily push John Edwards out convinces me that the Democratic party is no longer run by real Democrats.

[Andrea]

11. We've disagreed in the past, RestoreGore

But I agree with what you are saying here about Obama and his followers. It's scary.

[iris5426]

8. I completely agree...

I posted this a while ago, and have been waiting to get flamed by the cultists...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=4383306&mesg_id=4383306

[bpeale]

10. great article iris!

[bpeale]

9. i see it too & it scares me

i don't see much of a difference between obama & bush's people. both have blind followers (i'll stop short of saying ignorant) ... and it's much like a cult.

i feel exactly the same way you do about obama & you're right about posting something like this in GD. i wouldn't want to witness that carnage.

[CaptJasHook]

12. Let me the first to dissent

First of all, if history has shown anything, it is that most people are sheep (see my tag line). They see what they want to see.

Secondly, the office of the presidency is usually elected by the sheep, carefully guided by the Wolves (don't be fooled by their "Good Shepard" costume).

I really think that most of the truly educated, thoughtful and hopelessly romantic optimistic Democrats have sided with Edwards in all of this. But that doesn't negate the thoughtfulness of many other Democrats. Joan Baez? Ted Kennedy? Oprah? These are not intellectual light-weights.

I don't understand what it is in us that needs to berate people in order to justify our own positions. The sadist thing I have seen happen at DU in the last year is the berating and divisiveness going on. The smugness of people for whose opinions I had come to respect.

Just never forget who the real perpetrators are, I doubt it is the followers of Obama. Just as I know for certain it is not the believers in Edwards.

[Two Americas]

14. I love this line!

"...the sheep, carefully, guided by the Wolves (don't be fooled by their "Good Shepard" costume)."

[saracat]

15. Excuse me, Ted and Joan and Oprah are intellectual heavy weights to you?

They may be accomplished in their fields but "intellectual heavy weights?" Paul Krugman,or Gore Vidal, they are not. Oprah and Joan are entertainers and Ted, well, he got in trouble for cheating and he know the rest of his history.Ted is a politician not an intellectual.

[Two Americas]

18. it costs them nothing

It doesn't cost those people anything to endorse a candidate. They don't need to give it a lot of thought. They don't care if the candidate they endorse wins or not - their lives won't change. They don't care what happens to the people - that is not their worry or responsibility.

I think a lot of people want to be able to say "look at me! I endorsed a Black person for president! You can't get any more enlightened than that! Aren't I wonderful?"

When he loses the general, those people will shrug their shoulders, raise their eyeborws and say "oh well, I guess the country isn't ready for that. What can you do? But at least I was on the right side."

[CaptJasHook]

20. That is the Cynicism that I know and Love!

I actually think Hillary is going to end up with the media influenced vote. Throw a straw to them Black folk, then put in the friendliest corporatist. Hillary will give the Rethuglicans fuel to burn for at least four years. Distracting the nation from the real threat.

[CaptJasHook]

19. Agreed.

However, I didn't say they were heavy weights, you did. Besides, thought he is no Bobby, Teddy is pretty impressive and a staunch liberal (though a pllitician through and through) And I think you need to look at Joan Baez's work. She is magnificent.

[saracat]

23. Well you implied it by saying they weren't "intellectual lightweights"

"But that doesn't negate the thoughtfulness of many other Democrats. Joan Baez? Ted Kennedy? Oprah? These are not intellectual light-weights."

But I disagree with some of your premises.I think Obama is going to win and we are going to lose either way. Polling is NOT good either way(If one believes in polls) Both are either tied with McCain or within the MOE. Obama doers slightly better than Hillary. I am ashamed of the stupidity of Democrats.We had a candidate that defintively whooped them and we chose to discard him.We deserve what we get.IMHO.

[CaptJasHook]

26. You are correct

Looking back, my rhetoric did imply that. I will say that those three, in particular, have impressed me with their careers.

And we DO NOT deserve what we will get.

We may get it, but nobody deserves it. That is abusee talk to me.

What we deserve is a functional government by the people for the people dedicated to the principle of all of us created equally guaranteed life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

[saracat]

27. I agree that we "deserve " better but there are conseqences to choices. And

unfortunately, we may have to suffer those consequences as well.

Our country should be better than this. But I think our foundation has slipped.But I won'r go dowm without a fight. But when we are done, we will be done.

[CaptJasHook]

28. The fight is eternal

It extends back in time, consumes the present and will continue into the future.

I know that isn't a great answer. But I think the mythology and written history will support me in my hypothesis.

The struggle is what makes life worth living.

[saracat]

30. Well, I dunno about you but I could do with a little less of the struggle!

And "MY" life would certainly be a lot better with less struggle and more success.Sorry to be such a "young soul" but there it is!

[CaptJasHook]

32. Saracat, you've been working hard

I am blown away by your passion. No wonder you are tired of the struggle right now.

This weekend I went to my favorite cozy spot on the Oregon beach, turned off the computer and just read to my heart's content, made love to my wonderful wife, and ate good food, the inexpensive and glorious frills of life.

If I could give you the same, I would. Take a few days and do something for yourself.... then come out swinging!

[Silver Gaia]

35. self-delete

[Silver Gaia]

36. Hear, Hear! I hear that!

I'm weary of the struggle, too, sara.

[Plucketeer]

13. This caught my eye as I read your OP

"We have a situation with Rezko and Kenya and a host of other issues and yet we are told "Move on, nothing to see here", and Barak continues to rack up endorsements from both sides of the spectrum with no questions asked."

Specifically, the "Move on, nothing to see here" - because MoveOn's embracing Obama on the strength of a vote from their members. And what bugged me about that vote they ran as to who they should endorse - there was only Hillary and Barack's name to choose from. Not even a "none of the above" selection. While there WAS a place for you to put a comment, you couldn't ENTER a comment unless you first chose one of the two. It's either that you're with us or you're not. I think they've gone to far on this one!

[Andrea]

16. I didn't vote in the MoveOn poll because of that

I've gradually moved away from them over the years. I was one of the early members - back in '98 when they got started to protest the impeachment. I've disagreed with them on several things. Also, I was very unhappy with my experience of being a neighborhood captain for them back in '04. I ended up regretting that I'd volunteered for them and wished I had just done all my volunteering that year through the party.

[Two Americas]

17. "We are the hollow men..."

Have a gazillion liberals just been waiting for an opportunity to vote for a Black person? To demonstrate their "values?"

Since they wouldn't NOT vote for someone because they were Black, and wouldn't NOT vote for someone because of their name or their background - they are tolerant unlike those stupid fundies...

And the guy is intelligent and highly educated and successful - those things are "us" right? Not like those fundies...

And he is pretty much a Democrat, not that much different on the issues than any other Democrat, and Democrats ARE better than Republicans, yes?

And it is kinda a party down let's get excited kinda thing, and nothing wrong with that, right? We liberals aren't all stiff and uptight like those fundies are. We intellectuals know how to let our hair down.

And imagine - just imagine - a Black president - that will get those fundies ALL pissed off!

Of course we would never vote against a person because they were a woman - that wouldn't be very enlightened - but we can justify it if we are voting for a Black person.

Besides, we are all kind of tired of this whole thing, so here is a guy, enough debate already, enough worrying about all of this stuff - haven't we liberal been through enough with that idiot in the White House? Don't we deserve to feel some hope for a change? What is wrong with feeling good? And this guy makes us feel good.

[CaptJasHook]

21. Exactley

That is the narrative. However, I still think there is a plot twist ahead.

[Two Americas]

22. could well be

Yes, there could well be a plot twist ahead.

The goal of the party leadership is to crush people's spirits, so that they can then play the role of savior. Classic behavior pattern of the abuser, eh?

[saracat]

24. I think sadly , this may be so.

[CaptJasHook]

25. Crap, now that you say that

It all really fits in. I was raised by an semi-abusive alchoholic and done my research. Hmmmmmm

[Two Americas]

29. yeah

You can run away - vote for Nader lol. That is risky and you may be destroyed.

You can stay and fight back - then soon YOU will be blamed as the source of "the trouble." That is risky and you may be destroyed.

You can stay and submit - that destroys the soul. That seems safe, but is still risky and you may still be destroyed, and even if you are not, at what price are you purchasing peace?

The same dilemma slaves faced.

[saracat]

31. You can stay and fight but at some point a choice must be made between the self and the "cause".

The "cause" can destroy you, and you cannot live without the self.Unfortunately, the self also becomes depleted without the "cause" to sustain it. It is indeed a dilemma. And many of us are facing this right now.We must survive to fight another day.

[Two Americas]

33. Angela Grimke

Know that name, sara?

One of many people who resolved this dilemma by eliminating the imaginary barrier between self and the cause. For myself, the temptation to protect myself from the cause, to separate myself from the cause, is escapism.

There is no where to go, nothing we can do, no way to live our lives that will let us escape. The cause will still hunt you down.

It is very difficult to sustain the cause so long as nothing in our lives supports the cause, and nothing in the cause supports our lives.

It is a very modern, and very American thing to put things into these discrete compartments.

I am reading a book about the Allied occupation of Germany after the war, and there was a passage that illustrated this. American officials were meeting with resistance leaders and were very helpful and supportive, and were making plans to restore democracy with these resistance people. But what the Americans never noticed is that the people they were meeting with and being oh so supportive of, were sleeping in cellars in bombed out buildings and had no food, while the Americans were sitting on all sorts of food and shelter they could offer. The politics of the situation and the work was completely compartmentalized and separate from survival in the minds of the (very liberal and very intelligent and very educated) Americans.

on edit - anyway, what I was trying to say is that the stress and burnout are not the result of the cause, nor of one's life. The stress comes from the barrier between the two, the assumption that they are in opposition to one another.