Wow! I talked to a lot of long time party activists at an event the other night and

[saracat]

many Edwards supporters are not re upping as party Precinct Committee persons. They say they are "done".I spoke to several who have been PC's for over 30 years! And they are "done".They said what has happened to John has finished their involvement for them. I am struggling with this myself.Many are saying this was an assault on their basic values.

[OneGrassRoot]

1. Wow, that's interesting...

Thanks for sharing, Saracat. :)

[MissDeeds]

2. I'm about done myself

I cannot believe what happened to Edwards and am furious about all the back room pressure that was applied to cause him to "suspend" his campaign. JE is a staunch Democrat who actually believed "this is my mission in life". It doesn't make sense that he would abruptly drop out only a couple days after promising to stay in through the convention. He was gaining momentum, the money was beginning to pour in, the media was beginning to take notice. Something foul happened, and it was big enough to shake him into compliance.

I don't know if this is my party anymore. The two "chosen" candidates do not exemplify the core values of the Democratic Party that I have been a part of all my life. The only thing that keeps me from changing my affiliation to "unaffiliated" is John Edwards. I want to see what happens in the next few months, and to see if he again becomes a part of the equation in any way.

[saracat]

3. That is very much my feeling Miss Deeds. We shall see.

I was just amazed at how much of the feeling there was from people I have known for years.And these were not show horeses but tireless workers. One gentleman had run for office several times and was a genuinely good candidate but lived in a "red" area and never received any help.But he always said it was wrong for Democrats not to have anyone on the ballot.I genunely respect this man. He would come outside of his area and even walk for other candidates.He walked for my husband when there was no gain in it for himself. I worry when we lose these types of Democrats.

[flyarm]

12. yes and i laugh when the dems piss on us ..and count on these ipod kids..

Kerry counted on the youth vote..and they did not show up..at the polls...i am sick and tired of the dem party calling me for money and to work..but then the shit in our faces..no i am done...

and i can tell you folks..i gave a shit load of $$$ to the dem party in 2004..

and they are already into me.. today.. this year for close to $20,000.

and i tell you..i am done..oh and i did rapid research for the DNC in washington..but i am seriously done.

it is easier for me to give big dollars..but it is the man i met in Iowa who was a Nam vet who has a cancer he can not leave his house with... because he has no immunities ..he is left out of the system...by the dems...he could not caucus..so his voice was not heard..he wanted Edwards..because he saw him as his only hope. That man gave his life..to this country and has been forgotten..

or the lady ..a beautiful lady ..gosh i get tears just thinking about her..and her beautiful son..i met who has a seriously retarded son..who touched my heart and i can not get her out of my heart, or mind.. ..who wanted John Edwards so bad because she knew he was her only hope for care for her son..

i am damn angry today..and i am sick and tired of all the lies and all the cheating..and most of all the damn media that is once again telling us who will be our pres..and i am damn angry that dems fell for this shit again ..and again and again..and again.

I don't want a Messiah for pres..and i don't want hillary either..

and i am exhausted trying to help my country when she can't help herself.

fly

[saracat]

13. The other day I posted about how obscene the amounts of money being raised were, especially by the

Obama Campign, when it could restore NOLA or build a bridge in MN. They said the money was "nothing" compared to what it took to make a movie so what was I bitching about?They also informed me that the money was necessary because when they elect Obama he would be able to "solve all problems with the srtoke of a pen" Seriously. I almost threw up.They are so very ignorant. And we are going to listen to their choice. All I can do is pray.I will not give a nickel to anyone anymore. except my husband but he is running"clean". But no more Party money. I am going to stop my monthly contributions as well.

[flyarm]

15. and who here honestly believes that college kids are donating this money..obama's biggest base?

[Hermes Daughter]

49. Make a movie, saracat?!!!

You could run a studio with the money Obama has raised. You could make 20 movies! Tell them that! (Disgusted by their lies and also very tired and done for too!)

[pamela]

14. This post brought tears to my eyes.

When you talk about the people you met it just breaks my heart.

It dawned on me today that the person left standing in the primaries with the most consistent and forceful anti-war message is a Republican. The person left standing with the most consistent populist message is a Republican. How fucked up is that? We have officially entered bazarro world.

I have no intention of voting for a Repub but I can't fall in line behind a party that seems to be running from every issue that made me a Democrat in the first place.

[Lugnut]

5. I couldn't agree more.

I have no candidate right now. What's worse is that I have no party.

[kelligesq]

7. ditto again ! I was going to change to independent but I'll wait now

to see what John is going to do if anything, and to vote democrat in the GE.

after that I'm gone.

[kelligesq]

6. ditto I'm done n//t

:cry:

[raincity_calling]

26. What would Edwards do?

Do you think Edwards wants us to drop out? Listen to his New Orleans speech. He specifically asked that people not turn away. Edwards isn't giving up, so why should we?

[Two Americas]

27. backwards there, maybe?

Giving up on the party is not the same as giving up. In fact, the opposite may be true.

In a representative democracy, we should not ask what some politician wants us to do, the politicians should be asking us what we want them to do.

[raincity_calling]

28. All I am saying is

we do have power to create change and we can effect change within the party. Based on my personal experience and observing other party activists, I think there is great opportunity to be an activist within the party - for an individual, there is more opportunity to be heard and to exert influence.

[Two Americas]

32. why?

The evidence over the last 35 years runs completely counter to that. Why do we assume that the best way to be heard and to influence the party is "from the inside" - which really means predicating all of our thinking and speaking on some loyalty to those in power.

We are heard much better and can exert much more influence if we are not loyal to the powerful people controlling the party, but rather if we are loyal to the principles and ideals that are the whole purpose of being involved in politics.

Those in power do not want to hear us, do not want us to exert any influence, and this "oh come on in and be loyal and give up your hopeless idealism and give us one more chance" is a lie and a trap. Edwards had to be forced out of the race for the purpose of crushing the insurgency that was forming around his campaign, so that we would not be heard and could exert no influence.

Again, this is analogous to an abused person crawling back to the abuser. "He promised to be good this time."

[raincity_calling]

51. I understand your point

I base my opinion on my own personal experience. By becoming an activist within my legislative district I have gained recognition and influenced opinion among Democrats in my state (or at least my region). I have influenced some policy in an area that is near and dear to my heart (election integrity.)

Now I can't say I have influence policy on a national level, but at a local level I have, and being active in the local Democratic party has provided me greater access than if I had been outside the party.

If all progressives became active in the Demorcratic Party and united, we would be a powerful force. I view involvment and participation as infiltration. I really do.

[Two Americas]

53. almost 40 years

I have been a party worker for almost 40 years.

Here is the difference between being inside the party - or inside the circle of "like minded" people as far as that goes - and not. When you are inside you have to always try to get along, and that means that you cannot express certain opinions, cannot be goal oriented, cannot ruffle feathers. You have to bring your best tea party manners at all times, and you cannot challenge the gentrified and upscale premises of modern liberalism. Nothing every gets accomplished in the real world, and everything is oriented toward the interests of the insider group.

Inside the party is like a sausage grinder where everything is turned into the same old bland feel good hobby activity. Amy signs of left wing insurgency will be stymied, and if you work really hard and actually get something going, it will be crushed.

Outside the party, you are in the real world - like being free of the influence of some religious cult. You can be yourself, you can talk to real people, you can talk plain talk instead of liberal-speak, and you can accomplish real things. Then you can bring pressure to bear on the party and make things happen.

It is not possible to work inside of the establishment and overthrow the establishment at the same time. By "establishment" I mean the relative handful of people who have all of the power over anything on the left, and who are deeply committed to preserving the status quo. Once you are inside, you have no more leverage, and you will never have any power, unless you are willing to play the game. But it is the game itself that is rotten and corrupt. Yet I have watched people for 40 years do the same things over and over and over again, and then they are surprised and disappointed when they always get the same unsatisfactory results.

Now the Edwards movement has been ruthlessly crushed, and people are once again saying "let's try that inside the party thing again. Let's vote the lesser of two evils and make the best of it - you know, just one more time." It is always just one more time, and then look out are we ever going to get busy. Never happens.

But if we want to all get along and feel good about ourselves and have a nice social club, far be it for me to be the one to spoil the good feelings. But can we stop pretending that anything is going to change? That is going to drive us crazy as we lurch from highs to lows, and are always bitterly disappointed and crushed yet again and again and again, in exactly the same way, the exact same script. It is like a bad movie that just keeps replaying and replaying year after year, decade after decade.

[cindydivine]

37. Well said...

I couldn't agree more. It is so sad to see all of the truly passionate people out there with nothing to be passionate about.

[Catchawave]

4. I'm done with active campaigning and donating

Gonna save me some time, money and trouble for the next 9 months.

Oh I'll vote Dem, unless John starts a new party :evilgrin:

[machka]

8. I'm in a holding pattern as well.

Holding my support and my money, that is. :D

For now, I'm defaulting back to "All politics is local" - my local party will get my support (especially since John was winning my county Dem's straw poll by a two to one margin in a head-to-head run-off against Obama, LOL). If John shows support for a particular cause (like Habitat for Humanity, for example), then that cause will get my money. But the DNC can take its fundraising letters and shove 'em.

And yeah, I'll vote Dem, but I'm not gonna bust my @$$ for corporate candidates.

(BTW, I doubt that John would ever leave the party unless it becomes impossible to deny that we -- all of us, with him -- will be unable to effect change from within. In that case, I hope to God he does start his own party, and I'll become a card-carrying member. *nods*)

[waiting for hope]

10. I'm with you there!

Progressive Party?

Caring and Compassionate Party?

Tree Hugging IN YOUR FACE LIBERAL Party?

I think all three rolled into one would be pretty good!

[bobbolink]

9. I'm done with the party, period, and so are many long-time party workers I know.

The Dems may be surprised just how many don't vote in Nov.

That may be about the only thing that will get them to think.

Or not.

It's tremendously sad, but not unexpected.

[flyarm]

11. i am in the same place..i was a 2004 delegate for my state of Fla..

with the cheating i have seen both from Hillary and Obama ..i am done..kaput..i was called today by a state exec committee person and i told her i may not even vote in Nov..that i am fed up..and don't dare ask me to sell my soul to vote for dem crooks because they are better crooks than repig crooks..i said my integrity and soul will not go there.

I said i am tired of being beat up by arrogant obama people..becuase i have asked some questions about their candidate that he himself refuses to discuss..and i just never ever saw myself voting for hillary..

but in all honesty..today right now..if i was forced to vote..it might have to be hillary because of the behavior of Obama's camp.

but i am right now not predisposed to vote at all..and this person knows me and all the work i have done for the dem party and she was quite taken aback by what i told her.

i am ready to leave du for good..and say enough..because to be honest with you..i have had enough.

fly

[Catchawave]

18. DU and dKos have been Obamapaloozas!

:hug:

Was it this way in 2004 here? I joined before the election, and some say this time it's so much worse.

Some days here, Huckabee looks good to me :evilgrin:

[flyarm]

19. what will wake people up..Obama is winning caucus's..who really believes he can win the general?

in the caucus people can exert pressure on people that are not so strong to hold out for their true beliefs..there is no sanction of the polling booth..or privacy in voting..

caucus is not democracy..it is yelling and screaming and chaos..it is power of manipulation..

fly

[Two Americas]

34. they don't care

I think that there are many who do not care about the general. The whole thing is some sort of insanity. Supposedly, pressuring Edwards to quit and crushing the left once again was for the purpose of "unity" so we could better beat the Republicans. What a lie. The opposite is true. The party is being divided by this "unity" crap, we are all being thrown under the bus, and the party is much weaker going up against the Republicans.

[Andrea]

40. Unfortunately, this is true.

And here we are, under the bus again.

[RestoreGore]

16. In the same place, and can't support anyone now...

Though I would actually feel more comfortable with Clinton than Obama, which isn't saying much. But I am now uncommitted and not supporting anyone in this. I will have to vote for a democrat in November though to keep McCain out and hope it isn't stolen again. It all sucks big time. I'm tired of it all and this will be my last time getting involved in any campaign like this. I was glad to have been able to vote for Mr. Edwards last Tuesday though.

[Plucketeer]

17. Well..... reading all these comments....

it's an odd solace - knowing I'm not alone. I ain't sure WHO to direct my anger at or if it's even worth the effort to do so. I mean - for WHAT???

I've NEVER seen the worth of banging my head against the wall :banghead:. I refuse to do it on behalf of the corporate-financed phonies that my old party wants to play up as our redemption. Let them win. The whole F'n thing's as rigged as the worst Vegas slot machine! NO more nickels from this dupe. I'll just buy food for the local food bank.

[MissDeeds]

20. I did something today I thought I'd never do

I got my DNC membership card and the request for a donation in the mail, and I sent them both back in the postage paid envelope - along with a letter explaining how sickened I am by the actions of the Party in the past two years. I am certain the ventings of this life long Democrat mean nothing to the people who open the mail and shake envelopes to see if checks fall out, but I poured out my heart - and really let them have it.

I don't know how much longer I can call myself a Democrat. It was always a huge part of my life, and my identity: woman, American, Democrat, educator.
The values that defined me were wrapped up in that party affiliation on my voter registration card. It meant something to me, and I was proud to call myself a Democrat.

My husband and I still laugh about the first conversation we had. After a history class in graduate school, he walked over to me and mentioned that he had run for State Representative. And my first words to him? "What party?" Yes. It was that important. Had he answered anything other than "Democrat", he probably wouldn't be my husband today.

I feel like I've lost a trusted friend. This is no longer my party, and I am heart broken.

[ChiciB1]

22. I Got My By Email AND Snail Mail... And Sent Replies To Each One!

No money, and told them that I was extremely upset to see how the Democratic Party has changed. I told them they NO LONGER seem to represent "we the people" so WE are going to live with what WE feel about the mistakes they are making. I can't "play" their games anymore!

Money, Greed, Power AND KICKING others around! NOT DEMOCRATIC as all!

[bobbolink]

41. I guess that's the disadvantage of being homeless and having no address.. I don't have the satisfact

I don't have the satisfaction of sending their crap back to them.. in the paid envelope, of course.

Good for you, friend, for speaking your truth!

And, I'm sorry for the sadness it causes you.... it is grievous, that's for certain!

:hug:

[ChiciB1]

21. Other Than Being Involved With Edwards & His Issues Or What He

or WE may be initiating... I'm OUT!! This Democratic Party isn't one I've ever known. I've quite everything local, and almost EVERYTHING else Nationally. I haven't quite quite the DNC, but I did tell them to STOP sending me email. At both of my email addresses.

Sorry, but what has been going on in THIS Democratic Party is very weird, and not one the represents my views much anymore. I have seen them slip further and further to the RIGHT with each election. I DO WISH there was a place for those of us who "remember" what it was like. I DO believe the Democrats are going to LOSE A LOT of people because of THIS election for sure! My family (10 of us) have decided to stick with Edwards until the GE and then see what happens. But we won't be campaigning for the nominee.

Not trying to be nasty, it's just what it is!

[vanboggie]

23. Wow, I feel the same

I think we're suffering from post-traumatic stress from the Bush admin and the stolen elections. Then we experienced huge let-downs from this Congress.

I, too, saw John Edwards as our only hope. The day he stepped out of the race, I said I was done with politics. I'm not as much of a loss to the Party as most of you, but I won't be putting out signs, phone banking or any of the other stuff I've felt passionate about in every other election.

The loss of John Edwards was like the last kick in the teeth.

[Two Americas]

24. it has surprised me

I have seen a lot of bitter disappointment and disaffection on the left before, and I didn't expect the collapse of the Edwards campaign to be the straw that broke the camel's back. I am surprised how many people I talk to who are through. They aren't angry, or ranting and raving - that is new, because in the past betrayals of the left always caused a lot of anger - they are just through. Quietly and completely.

[raincity_calling]

25. Hang in there

My recommendation to you and those that have dropped out is to don't do it. We need to stay in there. We can't change anything if we don't participate and continously push for change.

My ideals are more in line with the Green Party, but the Green Party has no power, so I am an activist within my local Democratic Party. My accomplishment has been small in the big scheme of things, but I have been able to make change, and so have some of my friends who became involved as well. Focus at the local level and you can become a progressive voice that is heard.

In 2004 people thought I was nuts when I said the 2004 election was stolen and that we needed to get rid of corporate controlled secret vote counting. Now I have not accomplished the long term goal of getting rid of corporate controlled computerized voting machines, but what I have accomplished is that I have made this an issue among the members of the party. I refused to let the issue die and now I am not the only one talking about it or the only one engaged in this issue.

Anyone who becomes involved in the Party at the local level, can at the minimum, drive dialogue. Change starts with us. We can't wait for a liberal president to be elected. We need to be the leaders and when there are enough of us working together, the presidential candidate will follow.

We have to learn to be better organized and to form coalitons. We can make a difference. I encourage everyone not to become discouraged. If people like us drop out then there is no hope for change. We are the hope for the future. We create hope, not a presidential candidate.

[bobbolink]

30. We've "hung in there", we've maryred ourselves, and hung on the cross in pain,

for so many years, all to no avail.

The time comes for parties to die....it's happened in the past, and will happen again.

When people see what is really happening, no amount of cajoling changes that.

For so many of us, '04 was the last year we could be cajoled.

We're done.

[Two Americas]

36. "hang" is right

I say we get down of of the scaffolding and stop meekly letting ourselves be hanged yet again. We have nothing to lose and everything to gain.

Sometimes discouragement is the sane and rational response to external events.

[bobbolink]

38. "Sometimes discouragement is the sane and rational response to external events."

Naw..... seeking "professional help" and taking happy pills will fix that right up!

:evilgrin:

[Two Americas]

48. good point

Much of modern liberalism and progressivism is based on the "help" model. The enlightened superior person who "cares" helps the poor less fortunate one - it is quite similar to volunteering at the local dog pound.

But "help" people to do what? To adjust to insane conditions, to be made more comfortable in their oppression, and this is called "healthy." Adjusting to and functioning effectively in a system that is insane and very unhealthy in every way is not "healthy."

Or, they seek to re-make a person into a "winner" - clever, greedy, self-centered, driven by and focused on personal self-actualization and self-improvement 24 hours a day.

But what if the "winners" are the insane ones, and are actually the losers in every area that should matter - in respect to their very humanity? And what if the "healthy" ones are actually very sick - morally sick?

Why should we adjust and adapt to that? Why should we emulate bullies and self-centered morally depraved people? What kind of "win" is that?

This strain in modern liberalism is also politically very reactionary. Adjusting people to the existing system strongly mitigates against overthrowing the system. If the goal is to make everyone a "winner" - or at least drug them and get them out of sight and out of mind - by adapting human beings to the existing social structure, how can we ever fight for adapting the social structure to the needs of human beings?

[ChiciB1]

39. I Have A Saying That I've Used For Many Many Years.... One That I

taught to my children and to others. Don't know exactly where I got it, maybe my parents or maybe a book. But it's something I've said for a REALLY long time.

If You Don't STAND For Something.... You'll FALL For Anything!

This time, I'm standing for something and am tired of having THIS GOVERNMENT cram their agenda and what BIG MONEY & BIG POWER can get them!!!

They will lose many of us because they thought we would just follow along! Just think "Boston Tea Party" and remember there once was a time when WE counted!

[saracat]

46. Perhaps you don't mean to be condescending but some of have been at this political gig for 30+ years...

Some of us have been party professionals.When we say, from experience , that that the sort of change that is necessary ain't gonna happen, it is based on truths that we know. We are not just pulling discontent out of our butts or whining. We have put a lot of sweat equity in trying to make things better and we have been spit on again. At what point to we realize it is not raining?

[raincity_calling]

52. I understand what you are saying

I have not been at it as long as you. I have been steadily engaged for only 5 years. I get discouraged too, but some how, so far, I feel hopeful. Maybe I am far too naive about the power of the people to bring about change. But to give up?

We are living in extreme times. It is going to get far worse before it gets better. But I beleive the upheaval will also bring windows of opportunity for change.

When I was in college back in the late 70's, we were talking about solar power, wind energy,and small scale energy production rather than large power plants, small scale food production, etc. That all faded out and now we are talking about it again, only this time it is beginning to happen (out of necessity).

We had a major presidential candidate that shined a light on the populist issues (I don't mean to offend Kucinich supporters - he has been trying to do this for a long time - but maybe the reason Edwards was able to break through is because Kucinich laid the groundwork for him).

A populist movement is beginning again. I hope we all don't drop out just when our time is coming.

[AndyA]

29. I'd really like to know what happened in the 48 hours or so prior to John's suspension

of his campaign.

He was here in Tulsa the day before the rumors started, and he was on fire from what I heard.

So what happened?

Just as things were beginning to pick up for him, as mentioned above, he drops out. Why? The money was coming in, the media coverage was increasing, and people were moving toward him once they heard his message.

I hope at some point we have a clear answer to what really happened, and I fear it won't be what we want to hear.

[bobbolink]

31. I doubt we will ever know, but we have some potent clues.

That letter from the national head of the Chamber of Commerce, threatening in no uncertain terms.

Now we hear that Howard Dean was also pressuring him.

Yes, it's dirty, and yes, it isn't good news ...not only for us, not only for poor folk, not only for the party.... it's rotten news for the country and our democracy!

I watched "The Best Man" this morning... all about the nasty backroom deals, and the ugliness of the political system of choosing candidates. It hasn't changed, and I doubt it will.

But, what has become worse, is the way our system of government is bought and paid for by the corporations. There are some who say it's too late.. we already lost the country.

I don't know if that's true, but I DO know that until/unless we adamently fight those corporations, our very democracy is weakened.

At the very least.

[Two Americas]

33. brilliant

That is brilliant, simple and clear. The evidence to support what you are saying is overwhelming.

The only reason I can imagine for people to reject your anaylsis is that they don't want this to be true. They do not want to face the truth, because it is too uncomfortable AND because they may be too damned comfortable with the way things are. What else would explain the stubborn refusal by people to face the simple and obvious truth?

[bobbolink]

35. I don't WANT it to be true, either!! Even though I've "known" all this for years, my grief

is deep, and .... well, almost a physical pain.

Intellectually, I've known that "It CAN happen here", but emotionally.... gawddess, it's devastating!

It's also devastating to see the splits taking place, and the real nature of authoritarianism lurking in the background of otherwise good people, attacking those they see as weaker.

It's predictable, it's "human nature", I suppose, but....

...........:cry:............

Gawddess, I don't want to be trying to live through this!

I want the sun to come out, everyone to hug each other in peace, and a renewed determination to restore our nation to WE, THE PEOPLE!

:cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry:

[MissDeeds]

42. Looks like there is a lot of frustration and anger

In reading through DU tonight, I noticed there are fewer Edwards supporters posting. Maybe they (we) are taking a break, or maybe they've had enough. Is anyone else noticing this?

[balantz]

43. I'm still in shock.

I am trying to accept this whole disturbing, depressing turn of events.

[bobbolink]

44. They created their own private club.

[saracat]

45. You know better than that Bobby.

[Two Americas]

47. well...

I have come to the conclusion that there is some truth to the Bobbolink's idea that some people want to form private clubs - by that I mean insular and exclusive groups of "like minded" people - and that this is their main goal and purpose for being involved in politics. It is easy for any of us to get swept up in that without realizing it - I have dozens of times - because the arguments are very persuasive, and all of the terminology - the buzzwords - are so slippery and poorly defined - starting with the very word "progressive" - that it is difficult to know what anyone is talking about.

I have tried for years and years to "herd the cats" - to organize progressives into effective political organizations - and I do not think it can be done. There is no other area of life where this "herding cats" phenomenon is a barrier to getting things done, and I now believe that this is because we have two different groups of people sharing the same label, using the same words, seemingly having the same goals, yet who are actually going very different directions.

Bobbolink has driven a wedge right smack between these two groups and illustrated the difference in terms of what happens to real people in the real world, and done so brilliantly, and it is long overdue.

I have hesitated to say this for a long time, for fear of alienating or angering people, and in the hope that by cooperating and accommodating the private club folks that the cats could eventually be herded, or at least finally be sanely and rationally moving the same direction. But it is too stressful trying to bridge the two worlds, and there is nothing to lose anymore by telling the truth as I see it about this and not worrying about who is going to be offended. The cats will never be herded anyway, and relatively speaking there are not that many of them. There are 100 people or maybe 1000 people truly suffering in poverty and despair, or living homeless, for every un-herdable progressive cat.

But you cannot build a left wing political movement that has the same "success" model as the one that is the very cause of all of our social problems. You cannot base effective political organization and action on personal values and personal choices - choices and values that have more to do with the wider range of options available only to the more upscale and well off.

The cats can't be herded because they refuse to make the slightest sacrifice for the sake of the group. The cats want to each go their own way, and are among the fortunate few who have the resources available to them and the good fortune to have the option to go their own way.

[knitter4democracy]

55. This should be a post by itself.

Daayumm! You rock!

[bobbolink]

50. That's exactly what it is, and I know you don't like having the truth come out.

It's interesting.. I can post very positive things to you and get no response.

I post the truth about why you have all "disappeared", and you post to censure me.

Oh, and it's Bobbie.

[saracat]

54. I'm sorry. And Bobbie, I haven't disappeared.And I usually answer posts but not always/

Mainly cause I get too hung up and pissed off in GDP! And hey, recently I had a "disgreement with the "group" as well.I know what you are saying but we do need to hang together a bit, even if it is only to vent! God knows, it is cold out there in Obamaland! :loveya: :loveya: :hug: