Just want to post this only in this forum.

[saracat]

I was out canvassing today and met many Dems who say they refuse to vote in the GE. They say they do not like our choices.These were "high efficacy Dems". Meaning they always vote and sre Primary voters. I tried to talk them into at least voting for the "downline". Also I met many GOPers who said they would have voted for Edwards. Several quoted his platform to me. But some did say they will vote a straight Dem ticket.Just saying the world outside of DU is not the saME. Hmmmm.

[Two Americas]

1. could be big changes

I am seeing and hearing the same things.

If the big money is moving to the Dems - and it seems that could be true - and if the Dems are no longer going to be an obstacle of any kind to the big money people - and with the candidates we have for the presidency and the current Congress this also seems to be true - then there no longer is any representaion for the average working person. So be it. Edwards may have been the last chance for the party to return to its traditonal roots.

Maybe the political logjam is about to break apart? Parties have changed in the past, some have disappeared, some new ones have arisen. When they stray farther and farther way from their original purpose, something has to give. The coalitions that have held both parties togther for the last 30 years seem to be unraveling.

There is definitely a need for a party to oppose the big money interests. There has alwat=ys ben a need for that. It doesn't seem that the leadership of the Democratic party have much interest in that anymore. That leaves a vacuum. "We are (slightly) better than the Republicans" can't work forever.

[saracat]

2. This also raises a lot of questions in my mind about how strong Edwards support "really" was.

If it was just the one canvass, it wouldn't be worth noting but it is a combination of factors. Another thing is I live in a red state and this is a very "red' disrict. However, I have always felt that Obama especially would hurt our downline, and this is confirmation of that fact. Edwards would have been a real "uniter".I am extremely suspicious about some of the reported Edwards numbers. He was actually beginning to surge in AZ , with nothing, no HQ , nothing.We went from 9% to 20 % in 3 days. It might have gone much higher And those folks don't seem to be swinging either way.I think that is the reason for both O and Hillary kissing his butt. They may know something about the vote strength we don't. And the cheating that was involved. It also seems the Obama folks in particular took great pains to inform folks that their primary vote wouldn't count if they voted for Edwards. I am wondering why.

[Two Americas]

4. something is rotten

Something is definitely rotten top to bottom, right through the entire liberal movement and the party, and all of us have been contributing to it - inadvertently, innocently for the most part, but still we are responsible.

It would be so much easier, and so much of the frustration and anxiety and confusion would be eliminated if we stopped trying to resist and deny this and accepted the truth about ourselves and about the movement and the party. Until we do that, we are so restricted and constrained, and when we try to do the absolutely essential and vital task of self-criticism and re-examination of all of our premises and assumptions we run into a wall of resistance and denial. People are offended, they get hurt feelings. But what a small price to pay - to merely be offended and a little uncomfortable for a litle while - when compared with the terrible and very real suffering of so many people all around us.

The politics of personal choice and individual preference must die. The way we are approaching politics is crippling us. The alternative to this - a slight and temporary wounding of our egos - is that human beings suffer and die. It is just that simple.

[bobbolink]

3. The Dems I know made that vow in '04. We won't settle for the lesser of

of two weavils anymore.

Dems hung themselves.

Fuck it.

[glowing]

5. Same with me.. I know many more who were for Edwards, just

didn't get the chance to vote for him.... And he did have huge appeal to everyone across the country. I know many life long Dems here in the south that are now voting for McCain.. and others who aren't bothering. It is so sad.

[travelpet]

10. I know the feeling

I lost most of my excitement for this year's contest when John
withdrew and so suddenly. I was afraid Elizabeth may have
taken a turn in her cancer battle. But I still thought we
couldn't lose no matter which of the three was nominated.
Don't think so anymore. Wish John could get back into the
race. I just can't believe either of the other two...not that
I think they are bad people...I just don't think they have the
drive or ability to get the job done.

Miss John and Elizabeth and their optimism.

[Lugnut]

6. Oh boy.

When I spoke to my son today he asked me who I'll be voting for. I told him I honestly don't know. He told me he doubts that he'll vote at all because he's disgusted with his options. This is not good.

[Hermes Daughter]

7. Yes, I lead two lives

Someone said, "Keep your friends close and your enemies even closer." :hippie: Anyway... I was talking to my close Repug borderline neocon friend today - a very inside source - re the election which we hadn't talked about. He had very good things to say about Edwards!!! I almost fell over. Integrity, good guy - with the "Breck Girl" thing just getting in the way from time to time. Still, he was amazed that the Dems had blown it again, ignored Edwards, really fucked up and were going to run two unelectables against McCain.

He said Edwards had been totally fucked over by the Blacks (the poorest), that he was the only candidate who cared about the poor and was promising to help - and the unions, I added. And he agreed, the unions totally betrayed him. He didn't brag about a Repug conspiracy to elect Obama (and he would have known about it if there had been one). What he did say was the Dems were dumb as shit and had blown the White House the same way they did when they ran Mondale and Dukakis. So totally into themselves they don't give a damn about the real world. I quoted his friend :-) Michael Moore who said the Dems have a way of "snatching defeat from the jaws of victory," so....

My friend hates Colter, Limbaugh, and even Bush and said, with all that Bush idiocy over 8 years, he can't believe we're going to lose again.

Well, the People BETRAYED JOHN EDWARDS - so maybe they deserve what they get! But if Rove and the Repugs didn't skew the numbers and Edwards popularity, someone did. So who was it? The MSM? The Dem elite? I totally agree with what you're saying. I've even said maybe I'll vote for Nader this time. But we lose if we don't get behind the Obam-i-diots. Because we KNOW they won't vote for HRC. So we're hostages to a loser demi-god who's going down anyway in the Rezko/Syrian Brotherhood deal. WTF!!!

End of rant! :rant:

[Andrea]

8. Everything said here, by you Hermes Daughter

and by Saracat, confirms what I have believed from the start. Edwards was THE electable Dem candidate this year. We may never know the whole story of why his campaign was suspended, but we do know the consequences.

I still think there is hope for a brokered convention. In fact, I feel more hopeful today having read Eleanor Clift's posting at Newsweek yesterday. I'm sure that a brokered convention is our only hope, because neither Obama nor Clinton is electable.

Here is the link:
http://www.blog.newsweek.com/blogs/stumper/archive/2008/02/15/al-gore-to-the-rescue.aspx

[saracat]

9. Well, he would be a better choice but Istill prefer Edwards!