Neither Clinton nor Obama

[rodbailey]

can win - we need an alternative. After last night's debate, with Obama getting roughed up by a Democrat, we can only imagine what the Repub. will do to him. There are several polls already showing this losing to McCain. And, in one recent poll, Hillary's negatives are at 54%. You can't win an election that way. So we need an alternative. Is Edwards it - as a last minute compromise at the deadlocked convention? Are there others who might pull the Dems. out of the stew they're in at the moment? Curious to hear what some of you might be imagining?

[Andrea]

1. There has to be something better than this

Check out this thread:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x5555507

[Two Americas]

3. yes

It could hardly be worse. Fanatical hero worship is blinding people - they have lost all perspective. It makes them feel good to fantasize; to imagine that their candidate is everything that they ever dreamed of, and to "visualize" winning. They would rather feel good than to think. That which makes them feel good will just lead to more disasters, and wishing and hoping and believing is not going to change that.

[Andrea]

4. You've hit the nail on the head

they are fantasizing because they'd rather feel good than think. Great summary of what we are seeing.

[Horse with no Name]

8. I dated a man for 6 years.

He was the man of my dreams. My soul mate. He completed me.
It made it VERY easy to overlook his faults...because I NEEDED and WANTED to be in love.
I actually fell in love with the man who I wanted him to be instead of the man he actually was.
When my eyes were FINALLY forced open...reality hit me like a brick.
He was nothing like what I invented...and in most cases, the diametric opposite.
I think this is what is behind the obama phenomenon.
The only difference I see in obama and other politicians is that he lets others do his dirty work...but make no mistake, the dirty work is still done...at his behest.

[Andrea]

11. You've got it

I think this goes a long way to explain so many people stubbornly clinging to him, despite all evidence that he is not a good candidate for us as a party. Many of us would be very happy to have an African American president. Some of us look at all the candidates objectively. Others close their eyes and put their fingers in their ears because they are so enamored of the idea of an African American candidate. Others have the same irrational response to a female candidate.

Sometimes in law school, exams and papers are graded without the instructor knowing which student wrote them, to cut personal feelings out of the equation. It's too bad we can't have some analogous approach to voting.

[bpeale]

14. you know, if the democratic party belonged to me personally, i would

kick all those unthinking, popularity driven obamabots out of my party. there is no room in this party for ignorance. and there's no excuse for it either. they are only thinking of themselves & not for the least among us. shameful!

[Two Americas]

2. no candidate will save us

The elimination of Edwards was not merely the elimination of a candidate, nor just the elimination of a choice for us to select, and no candidate or choice will get us out of this mess. Edwards was eliminated to eliminate us. That is the vulnerability that comes with hitching all of our hopes to a candidate or personality, and seeing our role as one of making choices.

There are forces within the party - and I don't mean the leadership - who would rather lose the general than surrender control over the Democratic party and the political discussion. This percolates from the bottom up - there is no magic wand to wave, there is no charismatic figure who can solve everything, the battle is not in Washington or in the voting booth. It is a battle over ideas, and it is happening right here every day. The mess that the party is in is a reflection of that, not the other way around.

The obsession over choices and personalities cripples us, because it leads us away from any intelligent political analysis.

[bpeale]

5. the problem as i see it is that the DLC & DNC do not want the

president to control the party or the agenda. they don't want to give the president that much power, that's why Edwards couldn't win. can you imagine the power of the presidency in John Edwards hands? they wouldn't be able to control him. they want control right from the beginning.

[balantz]

6. Good point.

In my mind that kind of control is a brand of fascism. Why do they want such control? Are they working for corporate interests instead of the American citizen?

The real leaders and changers like Edwards and Gore see that they are locked out of American politics.

Massive boycot is our only recourse, but people aren't willing to be uncomfortable for a few days. We have the power to bring the machine to its knees so that we can force it to bend to our will. But it will be a messy scenario when and if it comes about.

[bpeale]

7. i'm boycotting this election. and I WILL vote for Nader if this is not a brokered convention

[MissDeeds]

9. I'm writing in Edwards

for the general election. It's my vote and it's not going to be cast for anyone else. Edwards earned it, and by damn he's going to get it.

[bpeale]

10. you've got a point. Edwards IS the only one who has earned my vote

[Andrea]

12. The longer it goes on,

the better chance it WILL be a brokered convention!

[MissDeeds]

13. Neither HRC or BHO can win

HRC supporters won't vote for him, and his supporters won't vote for her. And, a lot of us who supported other candidates, won't vote for either of them. This is a sickening, heart-breaking point in our history. We should have had this freaking thing wrapped up, but "The Party" chose to put forth the most unelectable candidates possible. I am so damned done. Is this the best we can do? Really, are these the best people to represent our country and our party? Un-Freaking-Believable.

[raincity_calling]

15. I know I will get hammered on this thread,

but come on people, take a look at the big picture.

Yes, we all miss Edwards. Yes, we all fantasize about Edwards and/or Gore being the ultimate nominee. But we all know this will not happen, so we need to be pragmatic. Too much is at stake.

Neither Obama nor Clinton are the ideal candidate, and as most of us feel, far from it. But it is reality. It is the choice we are left with at this time. The alternative, McCain and GOP control over this country for another four years will be devastating.

Come on! The real issue is protecting this country as best we can with what we have at the moment. Too much energy is being spent on bashing each other and the Democratic candidates. These activities are a waste of time and sidetracks us from the real issues. Look at us. We should be leading by example, as did Edwards. Edwards didn't bash. Edwards did not get sidetracked from the real issues.

At this point, the real issue is protecting our country from another 4-8 years of GOP control and a right-wing controlled U.S. Supreme court. That is it.

[SammyWinstonJack]

16. "Hope and change"=empty promises. That's if either of these two manage to get elected.

Color me bitter!