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Home » Discuss » DU Groups » Democrats » Elizabeth Edwards Supporters Group Donate to DU
 
AndyA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-23-08 12:03 PM
Original message
I'm just sick about it all.
Hi Edwards supporters! :hi:

I haven't been around DU much lately, I just had to get away. It's been too depressing with the feuding between the Hillary and Barack supporters. Neither side can see that their candidate is second best. We had the chance to really do something spectacular this election, and the foolish Hillarack supporters let the M$M tell them who to support.

Money is going to buy the American Presidency. Again.

I stayed away for a few weeks, but started peeking in a couple of days ago.

I'm sick that I have to find a way to justify voting for either Hillary or Barack, because I just don't believe that we're going to see a miracle happen and actually get a good candidate. I don't care for either of them, for obvious reasons understood by most Edwards supporters.

But I have to say my hatred for the Bush Administration is causing me to lean toward Barack, since he's stated he will have his Attorney General look into what's been going on the past eight years, and if there have been any laws broken, legal actions will be taken because no one is above the law.

This gives me hope that there might be some criminal charges filed against Bushco, and if there's a glimmer of hope for the future of America, it's that Bushco will pay for their actions.

I haven't heard Clinton make a statement such as that, so Barack wins by default. Pathetic, I know. But it's the only light I can find in the tunnel.

In the meantime, I will continue to hope that somehow Edwards comes back into the picture. That would truly be a happy day, but realistically I just don't see that happening.

At any rate, a big HI to everyone here, and this group is the main reason I came back to DU when I did.
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ChiciB1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-23-08 12:28 PM
Response to Original message
1. Hello Back To You!! I Stayed Away A LOT Longer, But Posted At A
few threads last week, and then went away again. I didn't bother watching ANY of the returns yesterday, haven't bothered with anything political in quite some time, but I AM SICK of what I've seen.

Depression is about my only emotion these days and I have stopped "listening" to to MSM for quite some time now. I have stated in the past that I will vote for Edwards no matter what! One of my main reasons in because I live in Florida and haven't felt like vote has counted since 2000! I have other reasons as well, but NEVER in my wildest dreams would I have thought that this election would have become filled with so much VITRIOL!! I may peek in from time to time to see the "slug fest" but I've LOST ALL objectivity and HOPE left at least 2 to 3 years ago. I have NO ANSWERS, and now it's USELESS to have any questions. Our Government has become one HUGE ELITE COMPOUND, and there are VERY FEW who give a rat's ass at all! They have forgotten "We The People" so I will try to prepare myself for what they have in store for us!

Time for a REVOLUTION, but that's JUST A DREAM... APATHY prevails, at least from where I sit!!

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raincity_calling Donating Member (143 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-23-08 12:32 PM
Response to Original message
2. I'm with you.
An investigation would be a dream come true. Another reason why I am leaning toward Obama is because he is inspiring people to overcome their apathy; I believe apathy is what is destroying this country.

Regardless of who wins, I will vote for either Dem. A vote for McCain/GOP is a vote for anti-American ideals.
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asdjrocky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-23-08 12:37 PM
Response to Original message
3. Hey Andy-
Yes, I just stop by, read some posts, quiet mumble to myself, and shake my head. Too much bullshit for a guy like me.

I'll vote the Dem ticket as always, but I'll work for no one but the down ticket candidates. No I don't like Clinton at all, and I can just barley tolerate Obama. So what's an activist to do? Give up? I've decided to work only for House or Senate races. In fact, I'm currently working for Charlie Brown Ca04, and it's my first real, official campaign job.

I encourage everyone to take a look at Charlie Brown, and if possible, toss a couple of bucks his way.

http://www.charliebrownforcongress.org/
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raincity_calling Donating Member (143 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-23-08 01:15 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. I plan to focus on
voter registration, supporting my local Democratic Party, and protecting the vote and educating voters on how they can protect their right to vote and have it recorded and and counted accurately.

My mission is to protect democracy and American ideals. If I have to be pragmatic, rather than idealistic, well, that is the way of the world at times. I haven't given up hope. Edwards is still around and I am certain we will see him re-ingage in some fashion down the road.



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Two Americas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-23-08 01:39 PM
Response to Original message
5. hey AndyA
Good to see you. I wish the feuders hadn't run all the sane people off.

Yes, as you and others on this thread are saying, there is no good choice, and the crumbs that are falling from the table - such as Obama's weak and temporizing statements about possibly holding administration officials accountable for something - make for thin fare to say the least. I am not holding my breath, but I am not depressed either, nor surprised or disappointed.

There is a split in the party, and it is not going to go away, and until it is resolved we will continue to get these miserable results. These are exciting and volatile times and I am very encouraged and inspired by what I see. What is happening was inevitable and while it is a little unpleasant it is a good thing in the long run.

What I see is this - the party has come to be dominated by those who describe themselves as "economically conservative, socially liberal." This is libertarianism with a thin veneer of do-gooder causes for cover, and has come to be what people see and think of as "liberalism" and as the only possible left wing political expression. The faction that controls the party and modern liberalism - about 10% of the population at most - is epitomized by the Dean campaign, DFA and most significantly, the same faction is also responsible for creating the Obama phenomenon, which is more of a marketing campaign than it is a political campaign. They are selling and marketing modern liberalism, the cultural movement that arose from the ashes when the political left collapsed in the late 60's. The public votes Republican in reaction to that - a rejection of the modern liberal cultural movement, not a rejection of the political left nor of the traditional principles and ideals of the Democratic party. The people support the traditional principles and ideals of the Democratic party, but they reject PETA, "organic," bike riding, "socially responsible investing," greening of corporations, veganism, and rule by the cultural elite of upscale educated academic people who refuse to confront or do battle with the powerful and entrenched corporate oligarchy on behalf of the working people.

Edwards was the first candidate in a while to talk about power and economics, and politics has always been about that, not about lifestyle choices, individual stances, belief systems, or personal choices of any kind. The faction that controls the Democratic party and modern liberalism is not spineless, they do not confront the corporate powers because they have no desire to, no intention to do that. The battle, in their eyes, is not between the working class and the ruling class, it is between two aristocratic groups jockeying for power over us. They are the academic, upscale, intelligent, educated, successful people with the moral high ground and want to replace the Republican elite with themselves.

This so obvious if we step back and look at things objectively. They run professorial types for office - we had professor Gore, then professor Kerry, and now professor Obama. They talk about who "deserves" the office, as though elections were a matter of nominating an instructor for tenure or appointing a CEO for "American Liberalism Incorporated." They judge a candidate on the culture war issues, on style over substance, and then complain when the public rejects their candidates for superficial reasons - style. Gore, Kerry, and Obama are idols, celebrities, heroes of this narrow demographic of educated successful suburban folks with liberal lifestyles and sentiments, and it has nothing to do with politics and everything to do with being able to relate and identify with those candidates on an emotional levels.

To support Obama requires two things - first, one must "get" it. That means one must relate on an emotional level to unspoken things, to spiritual things. Secondly, one must hold the notion that "winning" is a matter of placing intelligent "like-minded" people into office,

Imagine the idiocy of trying to build political power based on the intelligent few. By definition, it will always be a minority movement, and I am not even talking about the artificial and unsupportable definition they use for who is and who is not intelligent - more to do with style and fashion and rhetoric than anything else. A day does not go by without people here betraying this prejudice and bigotry, when they call the people stupid, ignorant, morons, knuckle draggers, mouth breathers and on and on. This reinforces the elitist feelings for people, which is the whole purpose of modern liberalism, and is a convenient escape from any responsibility or accountability. When we lose, liberals can say "well what do you expect? The people are too stupid to reach." They would rather be "right" - the consolation prize in politics - than win, and what they want to be right about is this - "we are the smarter and morally superior people."

This is unraveling and becoming more clear every day, and that is the most powerful and encouraging thing I have seen in politics in 35 years. The logjam, the trap we have been in, the frustrations and confusion are coming to an end. It is a very good thing.
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waiting for hope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-23-08 02:37 PM
Response to Original message
6. Hey AndyA!
I understand how you feel, but frankly, I don't see Obama as being a fighter. The only reason I have to lean toward Hillary is her health care plan and Elizabeth has high regards for it, which means something to me. I'm afraid with all this in-fighting between the two camps, we may end up with President McCain. Call me batty, but I just can't see either side supporting the other.

:hi: and glad to see you!
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unc70 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-23-08 03:36 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. I am slowly being forced towards your position
and I am not happy to be there. Do not want to vote for Clinton or Obama, but really do not want any Repub picking the next Supreme Court members. So, I will vote for either versus McCain. I mostly post for a day or two and then pull back again. I mostly jump in as a contrarian when one side (usually Obama) seems to be gaining an unfair advantage. Since I am in NC, I will probably be around more for the next two weeks.

I don't trust Obama at all; he reminds me of a couple of friends and family members who suffer from NPD and think they can talk their way out of any trouble they get into. They trade on their verbal skills, their charm, their quick minds, their smile and a wink to manipulate your emotions for their gain and then to avoid responsibility for their own actions. Not quite a con man, but willing to say most anything to avoid conflict long enough to slip away from the scene. Their latest story sounds really good at first, but doesn't hold up under closer scrutiny.

Clinton, on the other hand, is not a very talented liar. When she tries to even mislead a little, maybe even short of an actual lie, she is painfully obvious. She should never try to explain her way out of a problem; she is just not good doing that. Bill Clinton or Obama almost always try a new version of their story, modified to include the newly found facts that were at odds with the previous version; many times they can get away with it.


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Andrea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-23-08 07:27 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. Your assessments of the personalities
are really similar to my own.

I don't know what NPD is. Could you clarify please? TIA.
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spooky3 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-23-08 08:04 PM
Response to Reply #9
12. maybe narcissistic personality disorder?
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Andrea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-23-08 08:31 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. I bet you're right
That fits. Thanks!
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Catchawave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-23-08 07:12 PM
Response to Original message
8. Hi Andy....long primary season huh?
I wish you luck with your new choice, I'm pulling for Hillary cuz the gal has fight and spunk, quick on her feet and I just like her better. She would make an excellent President and rip the cajones off the Repugs. Sorry, no deep political analysis. :silly:

I miss John Edwards, he's gone because the media wanted to cover a "historic" race. Sigh. Like Jay Leno asked him "Do you think running as a middle aged white male was a bad strategy?" :rofl:

I honestly don't think any criminal charges will be filed against GWB, because our country is such a mess and the new President is going to be busier with saving the heart and soul of America. We don't need half the Congress tied up with hearings. They should have been doing that all along these past 8 years to PREVENT that little asshole from destroying our country ! I just want Bush to go away!



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Two Americas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-23-08 07:43 PM
Response to Reply #8
11. I agree with all points
- Edwards would have been our strongest candidate.

- Clinton is more likely to beat McCain than Obama is.

- Clinton is more likely to fight strongly against the right wingers.

- Clinton will be more to be responsive to pressure from the left.

- It is highly unlikely that criminal charges will be filed against GWB.'

None of this is meant in praise of Clinton especially - she was a distant ninth out of nine candidates on my list when this fiasco started. But here we are, and now we need to make the best of a very bad situation.

I think the primary race is a side show, anyway, and the real battle is for control of the Democratic party. We have representatives of two elitist factions squaring off, and that weakens both and is an opportunity for those of us who are in neither camp and who support the traditional principles and ideals of the party. There are three factions - the beautiful liberals, academics and professionals represented by Obama who are socially liberal to an extreme, but economically conservative and arrogant and elitist; the DLC triangulating third way inside the beltway people, represented by Clinton; and the Edwards and old FDR folks like us who want to return the party to its working class roots. Tactically and strategically, Clinton is the best choice for Edwards supporters at this time, in my opinion.
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Catchawave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-23-08 09:04 PM
Response to Reply #11
14. Exactly. Thanks T.A.
:toast:
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Andrea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-24-08 06:09 PM
Response to Reply #11
17. I agree with your analysis, if we are
only looking at Clinton and Obama.
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Andrea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-23-08 07:30 PM
Response to Original message
10. It's really disappointing
I'm going to work for a draft of Al Gore. I think that is a much better alternative than what we have before us right now. Regardless of how that turns out, I'll vote for our nominee.

After the election, I'm going to turn my energies to supporting the ACLU. After all the damage that's been done to our civil liberties these last eight years, we need to go through whatever it takes to get them back.
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waiting for hope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-24-08 10:58 AM
Response to Reply #10
15. I let my ACLU membership lapse
after I got involved here and then supporting Edwards.......just got an email to renew and I think I will. You are so right and if there weren't organizations like the ACLU, we would truly be a fascist nation.
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Andrea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-24-08 11:19 AM
Response to Reply #15
16. They are focused on one thing only,
civil liberties. Without our civil liberties, we can't effective action on anything. I agree with you, they may be the only thing standing between us and absolute fascism - especially if McCain wins, God forbid.
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SammyWinstonJack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-25-08 06:15 PM
Response to Original message
18. I'll vote for the last one standing, quietly grumbling to myself the entire time.
x( I can't stand Obama and I don't believe one word he utters. I can barely tolerate Hillary. This whole situation sucks! :argh:
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