Pagans and Goths - Why are we at odds?

[Chovexani]

There was an article posted to Witchvox that got me thinking about this, again, because once again I was forced to defend my chosen subculture to what is ostensibly my so-called tolerant spiritual community.

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Students challenge ban on Gothic

School board policy prohibits such clothing

BY MEGAN DOWNS
FLORIDA TODAY


Fifteen-year-old Amaris Mulhauser prepared for school Thursday morning using a thick-black eyeliner to draw tear streaks dripping down her cheeks.

A few hours later, she was pulled out of her Rockledge High English class and told to go home -- the second time this week -- for wearing the Gothic makeup that administrators had warned her to remove.

Amaris is one of about 30 students trying to change the district's dress code policy, which they believe is outdated and curtails their freedom of expression. The students went before the school board this week to argue their case.

Federal courts have been debating student speech and expression rights for years as school officials around the country struggle to balance the expectation of a safe learning environment with students' rights.

(Read more: http://www.floridatoday.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070914/NEWS01/709140350
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Are these kids just attention-seeking mallgoths who don't have a clue about either Paganism or the Goth subculture? Most likely. But I found myself leaping to their defense on Witchvox, because as usual, I was absolutely appalled by most of the comments on there. Instead of re-hashing them, I'll just repost the comment in its entirety here.

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I'm eminently amused by these comments. I have to laugh, or else I'd cry. I'm always thrilled to see the Pagan Pearl-Clutcher Brigade out in force. *gasp* Children dressing in black! The horrors!

Once again I find myself agreeing with Black Knight. The Pagan community has not only swallowed the lies and stereotypes perpetuated by the mainstream, corporate media and ignorant sheeple about Goths but seems to eagerly buy them hook, line and sinker. The irony seems to be completely lost on you. These are precisely the same people who slander Pagans. Daily. These are the same people who key cars with Pagan bumper stickers, write letters to the Editor and editorials on WorldNutDaily bemoaning the environmental movement as something straight from the circles of Hell. These are the people who refuse to capitalize Pagan and call us "self-professed" witches. Yet, miraculously, you're willing to believe every slanderous lie they sling at Goths, up to and including calling us homicidal maniacs with no future (really, go read the comment thread on that article; you're in excellent company) .

Yes, I said "us". That's because I'm 26 and have identified as Goth for going on 12 years. No, I didn't conflate the Gothic aesthetic with Paganism. I simply managed to be introduced to both concepts around the same time in my early teenage years. My interest in Wicca predates my identification as a Goth, and it was actually through acquaintances and friends in the local Pagan community that I was first exposed to the subculture. I instantly clicked with it, much the way I did with Paganism. I felt I finally had a language for what I'd been feeling, and found a way to express myself. And before I get too pretentious, I really loved the fashion and music.

Something happened around the same time Paganism went mainstream. Jane Q. Public got her hands on a copy of Wicca for Dummies and decided to be a witch, and she and her ilk began to outnumber the dreamers, the counterculture types, the artists, the bohemians. We had an influx of what I like to call Edina Monsoon Pagans (those of you familiar with AbFab know exactly what I'm talking about) . I saw less and less proudly self-identified freaks at open circles (whether dressed in Gothic, Rivethead or Punk regalia or Earth Mother hippie chick clothing) and more and more button down preppy types. Now, there is nothing wrong with that style of dress (I'd be a hypocrite if I said there were) , but with it came a certain kind of mentality. It came with the assimilationist mentality that says Pagans are "normal, just like everyone else" and that we should shove the more colorful members of our community deep into the closet so "they" won't make "us" look bad. I've seen similar dynamics at play in the GLBT community, where the trannies, the kinky, leatherfolk, etc. are actively discouraged in many places from taking part in Pride Parades, because the Log Cabin types are afraid of how the community will look to straights. Forgetting, of course, that the very reason we have Pride Parades is because a few decades ago, a bunch of pissed-off drag queens said enough was enough and kicked some righteous booty at a gay bar in the West Village. There comes a point in every even slightly countercultural movement that the push for assimilation at any cost begins taking its toll on those of us who cannot--or will not--conform to someone else's narrow interpretation of what constitutes a "Proper _____". I think that in our laudable efforts to become legitimate in the eyes of the greater society, many in our community have forgotten what it means to follow this path.

Mainstream Pagans: you truly have nothing to fear from us. Are many of the teenagers IDing as Goth/Pagan full of crap? I don't doubt that. In fact, the oh-so-typical Goth snob in me wants to take the kids in this article aside and teach them how to dress properly (Goddess knows I didn't know how to dress when I first dipped my toes into the Goth subculture, though I had the good sense to stay away from Hot Topic.) . I think very few genuine Gothic Pagans would say that one HAS to dress Gothically in order to practice Paganism. Is it a way for some of us to express our spirituality? Absolutely! My own path is one of Dark Paganism; my Goddess is the Dark Lady of old and I honor her in many ways, including through my appearance. (As I gravitate more towards Indo-Paganism, my friends jokingly call my style Bollywood Goth.) I won't judge these kids, though, as I was once young and ignorant...thankfully I had a Jedi Master to keep my head on straight. They are probably what we used to call "Crafties" when I was in high school. Instead of condemning them for being young and stupid (you know, being teenagers) , we ought to take them aside and gently point them in the right direction. Like new converts to anything, they're full of somewhat misguided enthusiasm, and some guidance might steer them towards realizing their full potential.

I know it worked for me, and over ten years later I'm still working with the Gods and Goddesses, celebrating the eternal dance of life and death as expressed in nature and the cosmos. In black eyeliner and combat boots.

[Der Blaue Engel]

1. Are we?

I dunno...just about every goth I know is a pagan. On the other hand, I know a handful of pagans who are not goth, but I haven't seen any animosity from them about goth culture. But maybe it's regional? (I'm in the SF Bay Area, where alternative cultures sort of bleed into one another, and all varieties of freakdom exist.)

I'd shamelessly plug my gothic pagan web store here, but my site is currently down. :D

[Chovexani]

2. It's generally one-sided

I get far more shit from Pagans about being Goth than vice-versa (I don't think I've ever actually been harassed about my spirituality from a Goth, come to think of it). It's gotten bad in the last few years.

In NY, I started noticing less and less weirdos at open circles, and more and more mundane-looking folks who were visibly uncomfortable with the weirdos. You get the fluffy bunnies who yell "no, really, we're just like you!" to mainstream society, complaining on the internet about people with gauges showing up to Pagan Pride Day. Then there are the people who bash from a philosophical standpoint, saying Goths aren't "real" Pagans because we're out of balance, focusing on darkness so much...this ignores, of course, the multitude of folks out there who only acknowledge the shadow when they have to. It also ignores the fact that the "obsession" with darkness is far more nuanced than that, and is really closer to gray.

I didn't really notice open face-to-face hostility until I moved to AZ last year. Maybe it's because the Pagans out here tend to be more New Agey than anything, I don't know. I do know that when I went in one shop I was openly gawked at by several of the readers there, and I overheard one of them whisper something about smudging the place after I'd gone because of my "dark aura".

[Der Blaue Engel]

3. Ah, Arizona

That makes it all much clearer. :) I grew up there. I know exactly what you're talking about. I had hoped it had become a little more enlightened (no anti-pun intended) ;) in the last 10 years.

[knight_of_the_star]

4. Those seem to be the same bunch that look at me funny when I talk about the real history

You know, all those things like how every ancient Pagan culture practiced sacrifice of flesh and blood, like how the Celts were notorious as headhunters.

The same people that get all fearful when the Morrigu or ANY of the Norse Gods are brought up because, "Oh that's so negative."

Honestly those bunch who freak out over "negativity" are the ones who don't exactly get what Paganism is about, the ones who really live according to the ideals are the ones I will gladly work with but the ones who make a big deal about not appearing too dark or negative or whatnot I don't have time for.

Incidentally while I personally haven't had this happen have heard from the mouth of a HPS and circle Crone no less that Asatru are all skinheads and racists. Wow gee thanks, I didn't know I liked Hitler, I thought he was a lying scumbag who deserved what he got.