Did I Make Myself Clear?

[Tafiti]

I wrote this post in trotsky's "Is Pat Robertson An Atheist" thread in R&T. I tried to go back and edit for clarity, but the editing period expired. Just wondering if it makes sense to you all, 'cause I found a few spots where I could've been a little clearer, or explained a bit further. You tell me.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=214&topic_id=27156&mesg_id=27320

[Az]

1. Its a good post IMO

Where it is going to catch heat is that it groups believers into one general mindset. There are many liberal theists that will object to being classified in that group.

But the insite is very good for the theists it does pertain too. Just be prepared to deal with those that claim they do not think like that.

[Tafiti]

3. Thanks Az.

I hear ya too. It was perhaps a bit sweeping, but I was responding to what he himself said. I'm not too worried about it though - it seems like the thread has basically run its course. I may get a response from the poster I responded to, but that's what I'm looking for. I'm interested to see what he has to say.

I wasn't attacking, I was just trying to point something out - the same goes with any other Christian who sees the thread. Hopefully they'll see that, and not give heated replies, only disagreements. Besides, I ended it by saying that it was based on my own experience with Christianity, which certainly wasn't liberal.

Thanks for your input. :)

[trotsky]

2. I thought it was a good post.

Just as it's alien for some people to think that it's possible to not believe in god(s), it's alien for them to think that you have no concept of "sin." Like you said, many think that we are atheists precisely BECAUSE we sin, and don't want to have to ask their god's forgiveness because we're too arrogant or proud or whatever.

I like how you pointed it out, though I don't know if it will register much.

[Tafiti]

4. Just trying to plant a seed, I guess.

Not of doubt, but recognizing their own subconscious feelings and impulses about atheists - they're initial impulse, natural inclination, what thoughts or feelings instantly pop into their heads when they hear the word, etc. I think these off-handed "atheist" remarks, equating to immorality or amorality, are sometimes unintentional. It's just how some people's faith has put, like I said, "sin-colored glasses" on everything they see, and it becomes a natural part of their thought process.

[Az]

5. All we can do is plant seeds

Its simply how the mind works. You cannot rip from someone the entirety of their beliefs in one fell swoop. So instead you focus on the things you can do. And planting seeds is the best way to approach a mind. You place the germ of an idea in their head and let their brain do the rest of the work.

[Tafiti]

6. Exactly.

And as far as argumentation goes, planting seeds needs to be a gentle process. Nobody likes to admit their wrong in the middle of an exchange, but it's much easier to concede points or ideas when it's been gently pointed out. If it's a calm, reasoned discussion, there is no need to feel defensive, so you won't get overly defensive posts. The usual result is sending the discussion into a downward spiral, and it becomes more about winning the argument than advancing truth or ideas. (I just discussed this with someone in the lounge a little bit ago). Civility is essential, and I know you agree with that, because you always are.