I reread Madeline L'Engle's "A Wrinkle in Time" about a month ago.

[Pale Blue Dot]

I'm now teaching middle school language arts, and I remembered loving the book as a kid, so I reread it this summer. I thought maybe it might be a book that I would teach in class. However, I was kind of shocked to discover that it is a balatantly Christian religious book. Aliens from all over the universe (the good ones) refer to God's love, and the main character, Meg, eventually defeats the bad guy (which is a giant BRAIN) with the power of love and faith.

Needless to say, I will not be teaching this book in class.

I'm posting this now because Ms. L'Engle just died and there is a thread in LBN celebrating her and this book in particular. I wanted to post this analysis, but I didn't want to rain on anyone's parade. I figured that this was the place.

[YankeyMCC]

1. I remembered loving that book as a kid too

but I don't recall the details. I think it was just the SF aspects and the idea of time travel that interested me, and it must've been somewhat well written based on my fond memory of it.

But I have learned since that she was pretty devote, but I also have read she was also very supportive and interested in science, but still not surprising that her stories would be pretty much black and white in terms of the moral message and since she was xian not surprising the moral texture of her stories would look like xian messages. I don't mean to say that every xian author will do that but it means taking a step further than some writers take.

I'm not saying you should teach it, you have to choose what you think works best for you and your kids. And it's been a REAL long time since I've even thought of that book and it sounds like it might be a bit more heavy handed than I remember (although I wasn't looking for that kind of message then) and there's certainly plenty of other books to choose from.

[TZ]

2. I read and enjoyed the book as a child too

and don't remember the overtly religious themes. I also loved and read the Chronicles of Narnia which ARE christian parables, yet I grew up to be an atheist. If you don't want to teach the book thats your choice but I don't think most of these books will influence anyone's relgious beliefs unless that whole theme is underscored. I never knew till I was in college that Narnia was a way to introduce children to the bible..I think its all about putting the book into context really.

[salvorhardin]

3. I have no problem with Christian themes in literature

Especially when they're so enjoyable. I read A Wrinkle In Time for the first time in third grade and then a couple years later re-read it and quickly went through the whole series. I read AWIT again just a few years ago and still enjoyed it. Ironically when I first read the book it was at a time I was already doubting the whole god thing and it didn't influence me one whit. Actually that's not true. It did influence me. To read more science fiction. The very next book I read was Heinlein's Have Spacesuit Will Travel and by sixth grade I had read all the Heinlein juveniles and even A Stranger In A Strange Land. Although I might not have identified as one at the time, in retrospect I was a hardcore atheist even then and I think I have science fiction to thank for it.

I would have no trouble recommending Madeline L'Engle's novels to a younger reader today just as I'd have no problem recommending the Narnia books.

On edit: I think if we were to eschew any literature or art solely because it carried a Christian theme then we would be giving up a large part of our collective cultural heritage and that would be a crying shame.

[Pale Blue Dot]

4. I'm not eschewing it.

In fact, I've made it available to read in my class. I just don't want to teach it. And I think it needs to be called on what it is.

[salvorhardin]

5. Called on what it is?

Good children's literature?

I can understand on not wanting to teach it. I wouldn't want to give it to a kid to read without being able to talk to them about the religious imagery afterward. That probably wouldn't be appropriate in a public classroom.

[LeftishBrit]

22. I agree with you

I think it's a great book too.

When I was a kid (and still now!) I was a great fan of all sorts of really old-fashioned children's books, most of which have some sort of Christian theme somewhere. None of them turned me into a religious believer, any more than 'Harry Potter' has ever turned anyone into a practitioner of witchcraft, or 'Robinson Crusoe' persuaded the young to run away and pursue a life of adventure (some 18th and 19th century pro-censorship educators did warn of that likelihood!)

[dropkickpa]

6. I was raised in an atheist home

But I really enjoyed her books when I read them the first time in 3rd grade. They kind of started me on reading sf/f, as up to that point I'd been reading Beverly Cleary, Judy Bloom, Laura Ingalls Wilder, Louisa May Alcott, etc etc. Hell, I still read tons of sf/f, many of which are chock full of god/s and religion.

[progressoid]

7. NPR Interview with Janice Voss about how it inspired her to become an astronaut.

She still gets chocked up about it.

Listen here:

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=14266537

[Az]

8. Keep in mind

That the themes Christianity pick up come from human nature. Love is a very important aspect of society and our lives. So don't let Christianity lay claim to love and faith in those you trust. That belongs to us all and not just those who believe.

[Exultant Democracy]

9. I loved her books too, but the last one (in the WIT series) Many Waters is super duper xtian.

[LeftishBrit]

24. Haven't read it. But in the Narnia series, too, the last book is much more inescapably religious

than the rest.

The other books can easily be read as fantasy/adventure while ignoring the religious allegory (I did as a child). 'The Last Battle' presses the message home much more, and is also quite disconcerting in content.

[realisticphish]

27. don't they all *spoiler*

die in the end, except susan, who isn't raptured through death because she's all tarted up now?

Haven't read it (though I loved some of the books in the series), but that's what I've heard

[salvorhardin]

28. I really hated how Susan was treated in The Last Battle

Susan is "no friend of Narnia" because she's only "interested in nothing now-a-days except nylons and lipstick and invitations." So because Susan wants to be a normal young woman (for her time) she doesn't get to go to Narnia (heaven). Blech!
Neil Gaiman wrote a really biting criticism of the way Susan wasn't allowed to go back to Narnia in his 2004 short story, "The Problem of Susan" where an elderly professor laments her entire family's death in a train crash. It's in his collection of short stories Fragile Things: Short Fictions and Wonders.

[omega minimo]

10. The Right Wingers want to ban the book too.

[muriel_volestrangler]

11. Wow! Talk about necroposting

You dig up a thread from page 12 of a group, 18 months ago, to make a snide one-liner implying someone other than right-wingers want to ban this book. Since it's perfectly obvious that no-one in this thread has talked about banning this book, you must have some other reason for attaching your comment to this thread.

What is it?

[EvolveOrConvolve]

14. I agree with MV

What is the point of omega minimo's post? I don't get it - is he simply poo-flinging for the sake of poo-flinging, or is there some aspect of this story that I don't see?

Enquiring minds want to know.

[cosmik debris]

15. The point is to disrupt this group.

She has already been banned from the skeptic's forum for disruption, now she is working on this group.

If that is not enough you should see the "call out" in the health forum.

She just has a grudge because nobody likes her astrology readings.

[progressoid]

17. This is what happens if you mix magnets with crystals while your planets are out of alignment.

Bad juju. BAD!!!

[Name removed]

20. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[enlightenment]

12. I think you could teach it without concentrating on the

religious aspects. I read it as a kid and the only thing that stuck with me was the really cool time travel/tesseract idea and the bit about making hot cocoa (with or without milk skin?).

I bought the series for my kid and didn't worry about the religious element. The last one was pretty bizarre, as I recall - and as the poster above said, very overtly Old Testament. Still, the thing I recall most about that one was thinking that one of the 'bad' angels (the kind that was shagging the human women and making - giants? Don't remember) - thinking that one of those was pretty hot . . .

Concentrate on the interesting bits - leave the religion to the theology classes.

[Warpy]

13. "Is it a good story?"

That's the only question I'd ask. Children experience literature far differently from adults, and her naked attempt to propagandize the superiority of faith over reason is lost on most of the young.

If you want to demonstrate that to yourself, reread "Huckleberry Finn" one of these days. What was a rollicking adventure story to a kid is a mordant satire of conventional mores to an adult.

Having said that, I have to admit I didn't finish her book when I was a kid because of the proselytizing in it. I was a skeptic by the age of 10.

[Spock_is_Skeptical]

16. as a kid I really, really hated that book

I hated the main character and remember my disdain and rage at the message. Even though it was many years ago, I remember it. This was the one book I actually remember ripping up and throwing away in disgust.
(Which was unheard of for me - I was an avid reader, and was always very careful about preserving & respecting my belongings.)

I just was so frustrated at this book, I remember ripping it in half and throwing it in the trash.

Was probably in 4th or 5th? grade at the time. Dunno how old.

[tiddlywinks]

18. good on you pale blue

i'm a teacher too and as you know it is already hard enough keeping religion OUT of schools
even vague references like BIG BRAINS out
that's crazy
at my school the principal dismisses for the day with
"have a bless day" i cringe ugh
(but we're in the buckle)

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

19. Waitasec. They actually have the characters blathering Bible passages as-is? -nt

[realisticphish]

21. wow

a kick, which is deleted, almost a year after the last post, and 3 years after the first post

noyce

[Twillig]

23. One more tombstone in this thread and we'd have a trinity.

I've never read the book in the op.

I say that just to avoid putting N/T in my subject line.

A giant brain is interesting. I wonder how big a brain could be before it self-smooshes inside the skull(or outside of a skull) by way of gravity. Meh, I don't care.

Mmmmmm. Brains....

[LeftishBrit]

25. Please don't TS me! I only came onto this thread as a result of coming to the forum to post on a

Niall Ferguson thread and give the latest on 'what is he up to now?!'

:scared:

[realisticphish]

26. don't worry

the deleted kick in april was the problem, not you :)