Am I going to Hell for not caring about the Pope?

[Hokie]

A similar thread was locked quickly in GD. I would hope that we could continue the discussion here:
Am I going to Hell for not caring about the Pope?

I really do not care about the Pope. He was elevated to his position by people who believe in 2000 year old superstitions. Why should I care about him more than any other human being who has lived a full life? He has been pampered and revered as a near god for no valid reason the last 25 years of his life. Should I feel any remorse at all for him? He has dedicated his life to promulgating superstition. I admire his compassion but does that outweigh the damage he has done by opposing birth control and gay tolerance? I cannot determine if he will leave the world any better than he found it for his actions. I therefore will have no more remorse when he passes than I would for any of the untold nameless victims of the SE Asia Tsunami.

[Az]

1. More than any other human? No

But as a human I see no reason to not to grant a bit of sympathy.

[onager]

2. His policies condemn millions to Hell on earth...

...so I don't even have a bit of sympathy for the doddering old fraud.

But before I'm stereotyped as a cold-hearted atheist Bush-head...

I have a lot of sympathy for thousands of the Pope's followers who, this very night, will die in squalor and poverty because of the Pope's brainless "teachings" on family planning.

I have sympathy for the gay folks, tax-paying citizens just like me, who may end up bleeding in a gutter because religious thugs consider them less than human.

I have sympathy for the mother who is working two jobs to raise the kids ditched by a husband who never misses Mass...even though he is currently...cough...Living In Sin with his girlfriend. (And that one is from personal experience.)

[trotsky]

3. Well said, onager.

I totally agree.

[Az]

6. Understandable

But the pope didn't invent the religion. He simply believes it. He is an active force for it. But he is propelled by it. I can look at a junkie and recognise that the path they have taken is foolish and selfdestructive. I can see the harm they have caused society. I can even recognise that they may have directly hurt or even killed people in the pursuit of their drugs. It doesn't mean that I cannot pity his passing. Mourn the loss of what could have been. Had sympathy that his life took the course it did.

To enable a people to kill another you first dehumanise them. You place each group in a camp and create notions that the other camp is evil. Demonic. That the only good thing they can do is die. This creates a situation that can never be resolved peacefully.

I believe the Pope is a misguided individual that believes in a false notion of reality. He believes his actions to be good. He hopes that his orders better the world. I believe he is wrong. I believe his actions are very destructive and cause many people to suffer. But I do not believe he intends for them to suffer. If I believed that for a second I would not give his death a second thought. But I cannot make myself believe that. Thus I lament that his actions lead to suffering and strive to counter it. I mourn his passing as I mourn the passing of anyone that had good intentions.

[displacedtexan]

4. Each pope wins the most vicious political election on earth.

Our political climate is meek and mild compared to the Vatican's!

The cardinals running for pope have armies of followers (campaign staffs) who have been working for years on their behalf.

The white smoke watch should be really interesting this time!

Sympathy for a dying man--- yes.

Because he got himself elected pope-- no.

[devinsgram]

5. Here are my thoughts and I hope no one takes this personally

but, if the Pope is so close to God, then he should not want them to keep him alive because, I would think he would want to go home. Seems to me like he is afraid of death. :shrug: :shrug:

[YankeyMCC]

8. I heard a report today

Where a spokesman for the pope (didn't catch his title or position in the church) was trying to talk up the pope's continued ability to lead the church.

His point was that to be a leader only required setting a good example. I wish I could remember the exact words but I remember getting the strong impression that this man was using the pope's health condition as a platform to speak against terminally ill and suffering people choosing to die. In other words I felt like he was saying "He's not going to sin by choosing death and ask his doctors to stop keeping him alive."

I found that rather disturbing, but maybe I was reading to much into it.

As for sympathy for the man. I've no more sympathy than I would have for any other human. I wont feel a sense of loss because he wasn't a force in my life or one of the people in the world I felt was a positive force in the world. To Az's point about him just being a follower of the religion - ok that's understandable, but certainly as the leader of the religion he at the very least passed up the opportunity to be a much more effective agent of positive change. But I wont condemn a man for not being a hero but I will realize he had a golden opportunity.

[Taxloss]

7. The advice that condoms do not prevent Aids

has condemned many millions to death. Many, many millions. It will cause a holocaust in Africa.

This Pope did fine things for labour rights in Eastern Europe. We should rejoice at his death, because of his latter conservatism, but remember his early progressivosm. The Catholic Church looks set to elect a vile right-winger as a successor; if they do, I think we should drop the conciliatory approach with DU Catholics.

[onager]

9. The amazing moral blind spot

I'll try to be as "conciliatory" as I can, I guess. But I'm amazed at all the Papal hagiography on the DU boards right now. And aside from us Ranting Non-Believers, woe to ANYONE who criticizes the Pope or his corporation.

As the CEO (and let's not forget, technically a head of state), he is responsible for a lot. Helping to cover up the child sexual abuse scandal. The absolutely insane positions on condoms and family planning. The recent attack on gays. The never-ending and well-funded attempts to meddle in politics all over the world, and especially in the U.S.

But again, all over DU, I see people who claim to be pro-choice, pro-human rights, pro-this and pro-that Good Liberal Democrats, attacking anyone who criticizes this "great leader."...who, strictly IMO, is nothing but a politician in a gold prom dress.

If some Third World despot ruled a nation with exactly the same policies as the Pope, many of these people would be demanding that we invade at once and liberate his citizens.

It reminds me of what somebody said once about Jerry Ford (from memory, but this is the gist): "I believe Jerry Ford is basically a good man. If Jerry saw a hungry kid, I believe he would give the kid his own lunch. But he can't understand that he creates a lot of hungry kids every time he lines up with the Republicans and votes against a School Lunch Program."

The same thing seems to be operating here. There is some sort of weird disconnect between an idealized notion of "Il Papa," as opposed to what his policies are doing in the real world.

[fshrink]

10. You're already in hell.

As to the pope, I don't care no more or no less than for any other human being, period. I don't see any breaking news about people dying everyday from the stupidity, blindness and fear of the ruling class.

[purduejake]

11. I don't know if you're going to hell...

or if there is even a hell. However, I find it amusing to point out that if there is a God who regularly meddles in world affairs, I think he's trying to tell the Pope to shut the hell up with the recent tracheotomy and pending death. I wouldn't feel bad about his illness- God must have wished it on him. After all, it was God who sent the tsunami to the non-believers, right?

[Modem Butterfly]

12. There's no such thing as hell

You'll be worm food like the rest of us. Try to make your 70-odd years enjoyable and try not to fuck with other people. You'll sleep much better at night.