Atheist Sign Joins Capitol Holiday Display This Year

[prostock69]

OLYMPIA, Wash. -- An atheistic sign is included in the state Capitol's holiday display that includes a holiday tree and a Christian nativity scene.
Rest of story in link. Yeah! I Love It!!!!


http://www.kirotv.com/news/18172046/detail.html

[dmallind]

1. Cool!

Not that I particularly care for signage and holiday displays in general but it shows if you include one viewpoint you have to include all.

Now who's running a pool on how quickly this one will be vandalized or rmeoved?

[awoke_in_2003]

2. It will be...

the first night, for sure.

[ihavenobias]

3. Two good points. n/t

[skepticscott]

4. Also posted in Breaking News

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x3630116

Apparently His Righteousness Bill O'Reilly stroked out over the atheistic point of view getting equal time. Break my heart.

[TechBear_Seattle]

5. I do wish the sign was not so aggressive, though

I think the last line, about religion being myth and superstition, is over the top. It is one thing to promote your views and beliefs; it is another to insult and denigrate the beliefs of others. I agree with the sign's sentiment, but I still think it crosses the line for this type of display.

[ihavenobias]

6. I agree and disagree

On the one hand I agree that if the goal is to increase awareness and skepticism, then yes, it could've been better worded. I'm too tired to even suggest what that wording would be at the moment, but maybe later we can think of something. ;)

As for insulting and denigrating the beliefs of others, I can't stress enough that there's a difference between respecting the *right* for people to believe in whatever they want and actually respecting the beliefs themselves.

I think the former makes sense and the latter is bullshit. In other words, I respect the right to believe in God, fake moon landings and unicorns, but I absolutely do not respect the beliefs themselves, nor should I based on the evidence we have (and don't have).

Besides, for all the talk about how we must respect religious beliefs there is zero respect for non-theists. What's respectful about suggesting that people who disagree with you are going to burn for eternity? I can't imagine anything a non-theist could say that could ever really top that.

[TechBear_Seattle]

7. Normally I would agree, but I think this is a somewhat different situation

The purpose of the display is to represent the varied belief systems that come together and call midwinter special. That, I think, should be the metric used to determine appropriateness. The FFRF goes beyond representing atheism into dogmatic statements, and the last line is basically "We are right and everyone else is deluded." It would not be appropriate for the Nativity display to include text that says, "For us and for our salvation, God came down from heaven and was incarnate by the Holy Ghost of the Virgin Mary and was made man. Believe this or burn in Hell forever," right? I don't see any significant difference with "Religion is but myth and superstition."

As for more appropriate wording, I think "At this season of the WINTER SOLSTICE may reason prevail" followed by quotes from famous Deists and Atheists would be appropriate; I've always been fond of Thomas Paine's line from The Rights of Man: "To do good is my religion." I saw an atheist display a few years ago that had the theme of "In this season of cold and darkness, light a candle of reason," alluding to the ancient, universal practice of lighting fires in preparation for the return of the sun.

In short, I think that a positive, affirming message will do far more to provoke thought than one that is deliberately provocative

[ihavenobias]

8. We don't disagree

My point was more about the worry about offending people and respecting their beliefs, no matter how insane and laughable those beliefs might be.

But yes, I do agree that the presentation could be better. One thing I like about that prop 8 stage production video at the top of the homepage (with John C. Reilly, Jack Black, etc.) is they point out some of the absurd statements in the Old Testament.

I'd even be happy with something in between what you're suggesting and what this banner says. For example, something that points out the nonsensical (eating shellfish is an abomination, stone so and so to death because -fill in the blank-, etc.). This is much better because instead of generically slamming religion it specifically calls into question parts of the Bible.

Sure, some people will get offended but some moderately religious people might stop for a second and think "yeah, wait a minute, that really doesn't make any sense, does it"?

[WhollyHeretic]

9. This really has some believers in a tizzy in R/T. I would have put something different on the sign

but it's pretty fucking funny how offended some are. There are thousands and thousands of baby jesus displays across the country but one frickin' atheist sign and it's the end of the world.

[awoke_in_2003]

10. Isn't it up...

to 300 posts now?

[Synnical]

11. Can the Neo-Cons Fuck Up Holidaze Celebrations Any More? Say Yes.

http://www.theolympian.com/118/story/685284.html

Gregoire phones ringing after FOX attack on holiday displays
• Published December 03, 2008

The phone lines were lit up over at the state Department of General Administration and the Governor's Office today. Blame Bill O'Reilly, the FOX News commentator who has declared war on what he thinks is a cultural war against Christmas.

He's blaming Gov. Chris Gregoire — inaccurately — for an atheists' display on the Capitol’s third floor. The atheists’ plaque, which talks about the winter solstice and declares there are no gods or devils or angels, is placed near a Nativity set that features a baby Jesus.

The Nativity set and plaque both are allowed under a state policy that resulted from a legal settlement reached by the state and an Arizona-based religious-rights group one year ago over whether to even allow the Nativity, or crèche, in a secular building. The suit followed the lighting of a Jewish menorah in the Capitol in 2006, which Gregoire had attended.

O’Reilly got on the airwaves last night and urged listeners to call Gregoire, and he called her a few names in his telecast, titled"The Culture War Erupts Over Christmas."’

In response to the phone calls, the Democratic governor issued a joint statement with Republican Attorney General Rob McKenna this afternoon:



"Last year, after a federal lawsuit was filed against the state of Washington by the Alliance Defense Fund, the state’s Department of General Administration set forth a policy allowing individuals or groups to sponsor a display regardless of that individual’s or group’s views.

"The Legislative Building belongs to all citizens of Washington state, and houses the state Legislature, as well as the offices of several state-elected executives, including the governor. The U.S. Supreme Court has been consistent and clear that, under the Constitution’s First Amendment, once government admits one religious display or viewpoint onto public property, it may not discriminate against the content of other displays, including the viewpoints of non-believers."

O’Reilly called it "one incredible situation in Washington state" and "political correctness gone mad." Apparently oblivious to legal issues at hand, he said it was inappropriate and out of context to allow the plaque next to the Nativity.

He said "the buck stops with Gov. Gregoire" and added: "She is a weak, confused leader who is allowing a small fanatical group parity in Christmas displays. How crazy is that?" O’Reilly said. "What’s next? An atheist’s display next to the ‘Welcome to Corpus Christi, Texas’ sign?"

"We are getting 200+ calls an hour," Gregoire spokesman Pearse Edwards said in an email. "Most appear to be from people who live out of state; most of the callers want us to remove the signs; some wishing us a Merry Christmas; some of the comments aren't suitable for publication. Unfortunately, the calls are taking significant time away from our regular workload."

An Olympian micro-poll survey shows more readers favored the display — 52 percent — than oppose it, 48 percent, as of 5 p.m. today. More opposition was from out of state.

[charlie]

12. This is wrong

If the sign said nothing more than "Have a Merry Atheist Christmas" they'd still lose their shit.

Instead, we should get behind a genuine honest-to-gawd Christmas tradition, the Caganer:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caganer

http://images.google.com/images?q=caganer

Insist nativities include the Caganer until they learn to dial down their overweening self-seriousness a notch.