Am I being hypersensitive?

[cynatnite]

Over the holidays I attended a high school symphony with a wide variety of Christmas music. Much of it was religious in nature. Toward the end they did Handel's Messiah and everyone stood as if it was the national anthem. I was forced to stand because I wanted to see the orchestra.

When my daughter was in high school she begged me not to speak to her chorus instructor about the religious music they were singing. It was mainly because she didn't want to be embarrassed and I relented.

Her graduation ceremony had prayer and every other speaker praised gawd.

The religious right complain that we're denying our kids gawd in school. Well, I've got recorded proof of exactly how untrue that is.

I've been told I shouldn't get "worked up" over what is conceived of as no big deal, but it seems as if christianity in school is quite prevalent.

[immoderate]

1. No.

:)

--IMM

[ihavenobias]

2. I don't have kids but...

I imagine I'd be really annoyed but not overly worked up. And I agree with your daughter, it's good that you didn't bring it up to the teacher. It would've just made things very awkward.

The main thing is that she (presumably) enjoyed herself and wasn't brainwashed. I say pick your battles and save the getting "worked up" for important stuff, like worshiping The Devil and taking Christ out of Christmas, etc.

;)

[lizerdbits]

3. I don't think so

If I were a parent I think I'd be annoyed too and probably be tempted to say something as you were. But if my kid said NO I'd probably not say anything either.

Now I'm curious what my parents, who I would describe as sort of agnostic/deist after being raised catholic, thought of my elementary school's very Jesus-y christmas program.

[onager]

4. Too bad they didn't do "Ave Maria."

You could have had fun pointing out that Giuseppe Verdi was an atheist.

:evilgrin:

To students of Verdi, the Requiem is something of a paradox in his career, given that he was, if not an outright atheist, "certainly not much of a believer," according to a letter by his second wife, soprano Giuseppina Strepponi, as quoted in "Verdi: A Biography" by Mary Jane Phillips-Matz. Still, the composer insisted that his Mass be premiered in a church, and it was first heard in the Church of San Marco in Milan in 1874.

"I think it's pretty clear that he was an atheist," DeRenzi said. "But one has to remember that Verdi lived in a very religious time, and what he was doing was looking to move an audience. A lot of his operas have themes based on religion. For Verdi, what was important was how you behaved toward other people, how you functioned in society."

Atheist Amen!

http://www.sptimes.com/News/012101/Floridian/In_memory_of_Giuseppe.shtml

And...

No, you're not hypersensitive. I just came back from 2 weeks in South Carolina, where I felt like I was getting a Jesus Suppository at every turn.

I do have to admit that one "saying of grace" impressed me. It was at a neighbor's house. This is out in the boondocks, so I've known this guy my whole life.

He's a die-hard right-wing Republican and has always been racist. But in his "grace," he asked Divine Guidance (tm) for "our new president, who has such a hard job to do."

That's just about a miracle on the same level as that loaves-and-fishes thing.

[enlightenment]

5. Maybe a little . . .

I told my parents that I wasn't buying the bible story when I was 11 (they were pretty cool with that, not being particularly reverent). I've lived the last 41 years without any 'belief' - including years of middle-school and high-school music where we sang everything from 'Frosty the Snowman' to 'Ave Maria' and the 'Hallelujah Chorus' from Handel. In my 30s, I learned to fly and my flight instructor was the music director of the largest Scottish Rites Presbyterian church in Denver. Around xmas, he asked if I'd like to join the church choir for a special holiday service, as they were doing Handel's Messiah in its entirety. I jumped at the chance.

Because I love to sing and appreciate beautiful music, not because I have one iota of religious feeling. The words and meaning of the lyrics don't really matter - its the music and the joy of singing that counts.

I agree that the god-talkers have more of an influence in schools than most care to acknowledge - it's been that way for a long time. When I graduated from high school in the mid 1970s, I was the youngest student graduating and the principal told me flat-out that he wouldn't give me my diploma if I refused to participate 'meaningfully' in the graduation ceremony. He made me give the invocation. It sucked, but my dad figured it was good for me to learn that I couldn't have everything my way and made me do it. I survived. Bitched about it a LOT, but I survived.

I suppose my feelings about it are this. Your daughter had it under control and didn't feel that she was being coerced into doing anything she didn't want to do. Being forced to listen to prayer at graduation is intensely annoying - but as long as we live in a nation that has 'freedom of religion' as a central tenet, it's going to happen. I personally hope that we will reach a level of diversity in religious expression that convinces the god-talkers that the ceremony would be better off without any religious expression (since they'll all be arguing over who gets to say what about whom - that's what they do best). I think that's the only way it will stop, unless, by some wild cosmic fluke, people in the US wake-up and realise how foolish the whole religious bit really is . . .

I'd say take a deep breath and let this particular instance go. I'm not saying you should ignore what's going on in the schools - if it looks like your district is introducing god-talk as a standard part of the curriculum or is denying the children of secular families benefits because they aren't religious, then you've got an excellent reason to get worked up.

But 'religious' music is - at heart - just music. If you don't believe you're praising anyone or anything, then it's really not sacred at all. I could sing 'Hallelujah' all day and it wouldn't mean anything at all to me, except that it is a beautiful piece of music!

[cynatnite]

7. There is some religious music I absolutely love...

Amazing Grace, Ava Maria and all that...I enjoy it.

My issue is that it seems so prevalant at school functions. It was a holiday concert so I wasn't surprised at the religious music included. After that I got to thinking at how much religion is used at school functions which bothers me.

I'm also at a point right now where I'm debating on whether or not it was a good idea to allow my 9 year old to go to church on Wednesday's. That may also be a factor here.

[enlightenment]

8. Ah - I suspect that's the root of your reaction, then.

I never sent my kid to church (big surprise) - when he was in middle school he came and asked me if he could go with some friends. I was loath to allow it, but decided that forbidding it would only make it attractive. He went for about a month, to Sunday services and weekly 'young people' programs, then stopped.

He allowed that it was boring and the stuff they were talking about was pretty silly.

I chewed through my tongue that month, holding back from saying anything and letting him make his own decision. He was a bit older than your 9 year old, though.

[awoke_in_2003]

9. Youtube should have...

some of the gospel songs Elvis did. I still like to hear them every now and then, mainly because my mother would listen to them.

[muriel_volestrangler]

6. Blame King George II for standing up for the Hallelujah chorus

He did it when the piece was first performed in front of him, so the rest of the (British) audience had to as well, and it became an instant tradition. I didn't know people outside Britain did it too, though (it surprised me when it happened - and I was at a performance in a British church). Wikipedia lists several possible reasons why he stood.

For the concentration on religious music - Christianity has been a major patron of music over the centuries, especially choral music, so I think you'll just have to live with that. I'd say the graduation prayer is less justifiable.

[PassingFair]

10. You live in the state that brought us the "Scopes Monkey Trial"...

why would you expect anything less...?

You might like this book by Matthew Chapman, the great-grandson of
Chas. Darwin.

"Trials of the Monkey; an Accidental Memoir

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51TZTJNCWRL._BO2,204,203,200_PIsitb-sticker-arrow-click,TopRight,35,-76_AA240_SH20_OU01_.jpg


I LOVED it.

[laconicsax]

11. Yes and no.

The religious right uses a definition that most reasonable people would disagree with.

God is denied in schools when all of the following criteria are not met.
1. A large cross prominently displayed in every classroom, cafeteria, and gymnasium.
2. The ten commandments prominently displayed in every classroom, cafeteria, and gymnasium.
3. Non-Christian religions may not be represented.
4. Science courses must not teach anything that contradicts the Bible.
5. History courses must not teach anything beyond the scope of the Bible.
6. Literature courses may not include any offensive books and must preface all non-Christian mythology as ridiculous fiction.
7. Music courses may only play Christian-inspired and secular music.
8. Art courses may only involve religious artwork.
9. Health courses must not teach anything associated with human sexuality/reproduction.
10. Non-Christian students should must be suspended if they complain about points 1-8.
11. Female students must be suspended if they complain about sexual harassment or speak at all.
12. Female students who become pregnant must wear clothing identifying them as harlots and apologize to the student body.
13. Female students who accuse male students/faculty of rape must be expelled for seducing the attacker
14. Female students subject to point 13 may be only suspended if they apologize to the entire student body and admit to making the whole thing up.
15. LGBTQ students may only be allowed onto school grounds if they sign a waiver stating their willingness to be beaten or killed.
16. Male Christian students must be allowed to do as they please at all times.

Your evidence of their claim of god being denied in school being untrue actually shows the contrary as all 16 criteria have not been met.

(There are obviously more than just those 16 criteria)