Hello all new Atheist here and a few questions

[Razoor]

Hey all,

I am new to the group but reading for a year before deciding to post. I told my mom I was a Atheist by her seeing what I was reading and asking her what it was about. The book was Lucy's legacy: a search for human orgins. told her it was about Evolution and early man. then she asked did I believe in god. I said no because all the killing god has done and the contradictions and the sillyiness of it all and if you have to believe in god you have to believe in other gods too. you cant pick and choose.
so she thinks im just searching for the truth but which I am not. I decided to be a Athiest. I can never go back believing in a delusional fairy tale, my brain wont let me. but apparently she wants me to go talk with my brother's youth pastor about questions I may have. I told her I will. I am thinking she might think might it persuade me back to believe again. any ideas on what to say to the youth pastor? I could show him all the contradictions in the bible but I have never talked to a youth minister about the bible being a non believer or to a christian. my mom doesnt really doesnt want to talk to me about it,hnece the pastor. I dont understand why my mom thinks this will acomplish? she thinks calling myself a athiest sounds a bad thing. but I dont going around saying it outloud I keep it to myself, she just happened to see what I was reading that day. can anyone help? or been in this sort of situation before?

[laconicsax]

1. Listen to Christopher Hitchens destroy Todd Friel

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EZB0lLIcXIA

I would assume from my own experience that this youth minister will make most, if not all of these arguments and Hitchens' responses to them are pretty good.

If they invoke Pascal's Wager, two ways to refute it are:
-If God doesn't exist but you live like he does, then you've wasted your life in an attempt to please someone who doesn't exist.
-Point out that the same wager could be made for any of the other hundreds of gods that humanity has believed in. Nothing in the wager points to worship of Abrahamic god over any other god and there's no more evidence that points to the Abrahamic god than any other god.

If they talk about the Bible as the source of morality, ask them what they think about the morality of keeping slaves, beating children who misbehave, of forcing women to marry their rapist, rape victims being executed for not screaming loud enough, of executing someone for working on the Sabbath, or any of the other reprehensible 'morals' in the Bible. If they disagree with any of them, point out that their morals must be coming from somewhere other than the Bible.

If they equivocate on Old vs New Testament hit them with Matthew 5:18-19 or Luke 16:17 which both have Jesus saying that the Old Testament laws still apply.

If they talk about the '10 Commandments' point out that the ten in Exodus 20 are just the first in a long list. After Moses comes down off the mountain sees the golden calf, he smashes the tablets and goes to get new ones. Exodus 34 then has a list of ten followed by, "And he wrote upon the tables the words of the covenant, the ten commandments." (Exodus 34:28) Those commandments are:
Exodus 34:17-27
1)Thou shalt make thee no molten gods.
2)The feast of unleavened bread (Passover) shalt thou keep. Seven days thou shalt eat unleavened bread, as I commanded thee, in the time of the month Abib: for in the month Abib thou camest out from Egypt.
3)All that openeth the matrix is mine; and every firstling among thy cattle, whether ox or sheep, that is male. But the firstling of an ass thou shalt redeem with a lamb: and if thou redeem him not, then shalt thou break his neck.
4) All the firstborn of thy sons thou shalt redeem. And none shall appear before me empty.
5)Six days thou shalt work, but on the seventh day thou shalt rest: in earing time and in harvest thou shalt rest.
6)And thou shalt observe the feast of weeks, of the firstfruits of wheat harvest, and the feast of ingathering at the year's end.
7)Thrice in the year shall all your menchildren appear before the LORD God, the God of Israel. For I will cast out the nations before thee, and enlarge thy borders: neither shall any man desire thy land, when thou shalt go up to appear before the LORD thy God thrice in the year.
8)Thou shalt not offer the blood of my sacrifice with leaven; neither shall the sacrifice of the feast of the passover be left unto the morning.
9)The first of the firstfruits of thy land thou shalt bring unto the house of the LORD thy God.
10)Thou shall not seethe a kid in its mother's milk (origin of the Kosher ban on meat and dairy)

Then ask the youth pastor how they've lived up to them (especially the blood sacrifices).

[Warpy]

2. You're not going to convince him any more than he'll convince you

so you can pretty much save your breath on that account.

Just remember he's not a bad guy and he's trying to care about you.

Remind him that the best he can expect is to bully you into lip service.

Then suggest a game of cards.

[Lost-in-FL]

3. It sounds like you already made up your mind about deities

I have never been in your shoes since I discovered about my unbelief older in my life. I wouldn't be worried about anything. Just the fact that you got to your own conclusions ON YOUR OWN says a lot about you. It might be a tad difficult for anyone to make you change your mind based on this fact alone.

I think this might be a good exercise in your favor and to your level of conviction. This meeting might lead you to discover more things about yourself and see what other excuses apologists have, what other explainations they keep on digging to cover up their delusion or how much you really know. I am sure you will end up with more questions but you will definitely give him a run for his money.

Here's a good way to start your search for info. This might be very basicto some but will give you a good way to start or answer questions he might ask you.

http://www.positiveatheism.org/

http://www.positiveatheism.org/faq/faq1110i.htm

Good luck.

[pink-o]

4. It's kinda like being unplugged from the Matrix, isn't it?

Initially, it's painful and frightening. But on a visceral level, you understand that no matter how hard it is, it's better to know the truth and feel the pain, than to live a lie in bliss.

You sound young, and curious, and in search of your own path in life. Congratulations! Now, I'm sorry to say, you have to deal with those a lot older who think they know best for you. I'm pretty old myself, but oh! How well I remember those days!

I was lucky to have a secular Jewish father and an Atheist mother, so I was never forced into houses of worship. But when I became a vegetarian at 16, I was forced into getting blood work and having to explain myself to people who were convinced I was going to die. I wasn't very good at articulating my reasons, and I got very defensive--then eventually, I capitulated because it was easier to eat meat and I had begun to doubt myself in the face of all the opposition.

I really regret that I wasn't stronger. I became a veg again at age 22 and never looked back.

My advice to you is to speak to the youth pastor, listen respectfully, but understand that for all his (and everyone else's) good intentions, only you can make spiritual decisions in your own life. I still get frustrated with these believers in Fairy Tales. I know we'd like them all to get out of the way of real human evolution, but the universe doesn't run on our personal timetable, and we still have to show them respect. It's not about compromising your own convictions to listen to others. I know that now, I wish I had when I was younger. Maybe I would have been able to stick to my guns and neutralized the opposition.

I hope you can, in your situation. And I hope we've been able to help!

[Justitia]

5. Be polite, but don't get suckered into debating the bible w/a pastor.

If you can avoid the mtg all together, even better. You don't have to explain or justify your position to anyone - NO ONE.

If you go, be honest, tell him you came on request of your mom, you aren't making any independent search for answers.

Getting all wound up in a discussion about the bible is really pointless.
If you don't believe it, it has no particular relevance or truth to you.
Debating the bible, for someone who doesn't hold it as "ultimate truth" of anything, is like using comic books to prove Superman exists.

You don't need to defend your ideas & feelings to anyone.

Then tell your mom you understand her anxiety, but you are very comfortable with it & that is what matters.

My grandmom & I are very, very close. She is very devout. She knows how I feel and I'm respectful of her faith - we don't talk about it.
It's a situation of mutual respect.

[vixengrl]

6. My mom raised me agnostic, whether she realized it or not,

and every Biblical book such as the Lutheran catechism, the illustrated childrens' version of the Bible, with annotations of the Catholic mass, and the Jehovah's Witness cartoon New Testament, all of which she encouraged, helped me be an atheist. She doesn't exactly like that I use the word "atheist" because she knows if I say I'm an atheist, I might be asking for it from others, but I think I'm the happiest kind of atheist--I'm one that really, really knows the Bible. And I think she let me go to different churches and read the bible when I was young specifically because she knew I was just the kind of person who asks lots of questions and tries to figure out things. And knew I'd make up my own mind.

So now, when we talk about faith, I know she is a little bit "Spiritual", but not religious--and the best thing about her is she never judges. (Actually, I happen to know she thinks Chris Hitchens is really smart and as a nurse is science-oriented--so we do have some stuff in common. She's also very liberal and where I learned about politics, so, yay--my mom.) Sometimes you have to find what you and your parent have in common (I think my dad is as pleased as anything I'm an "out" atheist, because he likes organized religion like most people like lice. And for similar reasons.) And then you discuss things from that pov.

[cynatnite]

7. My mother wanted me to meet with her pastor...

I declined because I didn't see what it would accomplish. I've gone down the religion road once before, knew all the lingo, and didn't see changing my thoughts. I explained that it took years for me to get to where I am today and a talk with a pastor wasn't going to undo it.

This pastor isn't going to change your mind any more than you'll change his. Think about that before agreeing.