the open war has officially begun.

[Soylent Brice]

my mother-in-law has slowly, and behind mine and my wife's backs, started to talk to my oldest daughter (5yrs old) about jesus and xiananity.

we have asked her, respectfully and several times, to stop.

well, my daughter went to spend the night with her saturday night. came back the next afternoon. last night as we're tucking her in for bed she said to us "oh, it's time to say my prayer!"

:grr:

we explained as nicely as we could without saying offensive things about my MIL that she did not, and further explained that is what her grandma does, and that is what SHE believes.

explained that she doesn't have to do that and it's just pretend.

she argued with us saying that her grandma said it WAS true, and that we (my wife and i) were wrong.

well, i just got a text about 20 minutes ago from my wife, and the open war has officially started. a question:

should i do what my wife wants to do and have a respectful debate with someone who is willing to lie to a 5 yr old behind our backs, and undermine our authority as parents, to raise our children how we see fit, or...

do i do what I want to do and hand my MIL's ass to her, and revoke all visiting privileges.

?


i'm so livid i can't see straight.

[immoderate]

1. Talk about none of my business, but...

Tough call, but my first inclination is to go with your wife. Kid may resent being cut off, rebel, (insert appropriate psychobabble) and you want to preserve your options.

Your daughter may be exposed to this sometime. I think that all children reach a point of awareness where they categorize things into real and imaginary. The legacy I got from my parents was to question everything. This, even though my mother was a believer. The more questions your daughter asks, the faster she'll be done with this nonsense. Suggestion: read her lots of fairy tales.

There will be teachable moments. When they tell her what Christians believe, you can show her what other cultures believed, and what modern educated people believe. (Note: Ultimately, you can't control what someone believes.)

You might warn your MIL that her credibility will ultimately come into question, so she should go lightly.

Have a shot of something. I know that feeling.

--imm

[Soylent Brice]

2. thank you.

i agree, we do read to her a lot, mostly science stuff. she's obsessed with astronomy right now.

as far as fairy tales - 1,001 Arabian Nights, and Alice in wonderland and Through the Looking Glass.

everything you stated about question everything, etc. is all we were already doing. i was hoping to have the "religions and cultures of the world" talk in another year or so.

our biggest problem is my MIL not respecting our decision and doing this in secret. it's reprehensible, in the least.
the funny thing is, since i posted this i received another text from my wife, maybe 7-8 minutes ago. she's furious, so i guess the argument is going worse than i had originally thought. sounds like my wife may have already taken a bite out of her mom's ass for me.

i have some woodhouse reserve that needs some attention tonight.
lol

[immoderate]

7. L'chaim!

:beer:

--imm

[Soylent Brice]

9. cheers!

lol

[Warpy]

3. I'd say no more unsupervised visitation.

Grandma's stepped over the line here and you'll want to protect your kids from more fear based indoctrination.

However, it would do a disservice to your kids to keep her out of the picture completely.

Take the kids over to visit but stay there. No more overnights and no more using her as a babysitter.

[Soylent Brice]

4. that's what it has come to.

called my wife a little while ago to get the details. they're still going at it.

asked her on a scale of 1-10, 10 being worst argument ever. she said a 6 because of the issue itself, and a 10 because of the things her mother is saying in front of our kids.

i thought i was going to be the one that needed to be held back, but it looks like my wife is leading the charge on this one. i'll be shocked if the MIL comes around for a few weeks after this. my wife is extremely timid, but right now she is royally pissed.

she couldn't tell me exactly why with her mom still there, but i'm anxious as all hell to find out exactly what is being said.

[Warpy]

5. Mothers and daughters often have a pretty stormy relationship

with conflict you really don't want to know about boiling away just under the surface.

You might have to be the one to push for detente so the kids can get spoiled by Grandma without getting indoctrinated.

[Soylent Brice]

8. i think you're right.

i thought i was mad, but my wife seems to have surpassed me this time.

i'll finally be leaving work in 30 mnutes or so, so i'll know in about an hour exactly how bad the damage is. she is the only grandma my kids know, which is why we've always tried to handle things with finesse.



thanks for your input. greatly appreciated!

[GliderGuider]

11. Hell hath no fury like a mama bear protecting her cubs n/t

[Deep13]

6. +1

[GliderGuider]

10. No unsupervised visiting from here on.

My ex-partner had the exact same problem with the parents of her ex-husband. They would not stop proselytizing her daughters, so all visits had to be supervised. The kids were pulled out of visits a couple of times until the GPs got the message.

There's no point making a fuss, it might give you a momentary dopamine high but it won't help. Anyway, it would be bad karma :-)

[phantom power]

12. My five-year-old breaks out with comments like that...

now and again. In our case, I know that there is nobody in particular trying to subvert us. It just appears that "god-talk" is part of our culture.

I understand your reaction. I'm both fascinated and appalled at how my own child is suddenly arguing with me over this. "You're wrong, daddy! I believe in god." Holy shit, really? How the $#@%$@ did that happen???

I really, really don't want to specifically indoctrinate my kid with atheism. But I look at how contagious the god-meme is, and it makes me wonder what I should do. I want her to find her own path in life, but I have to admit to myself I'll be upset if she gets the god bug. Do. Not. Want.

:banghead:

[Soylent Brice]

13. "Holy shit, really? How the $#@%$@ did that happen???"

that's exactly how i felt sunday night.

i, too, do not want to "indoctrinate" my kids either. it's a fine line. i wanted to be able to teach my children about all religions and the absence thereof and give them the tools to make an informed decision. it just feels like that has been stripped away. nothing but damage control at this point.

SUCKS

[and-justice-for-all]

14. Sounds like you need to make your point a little more clear...

perhaps a little offensiveness is needed.

Her actions are very disrespectful to your wishes, you are after all, the one raising YOUR daughter, not your MIL. She would be just as pissed her kids went to her Atheist relatives only for them to come home and say "God is just pretend"..

[cynatnite]

15. Putting the cards on the table is a good beginning...

Letting her know that the job of educating your daughter about religious matters is you and your wife's responsibility. Instruct her that defying your wishes will result in visitation restrictions. If your MIL respects and loves you she will abide by your decisions. If she refuses and insists on continuing down this road, then go with your instincts. You and your wife must have a united front on this issue. Chances are your MIL will back down rather than risk not seeing her granddaughter.

[Kolesar]

16. Is five years old too young to watch "The Life of Brian"?

Try to talk it over in the most peaceful way possible.

[onager]

17. Well, there is the "very naughty boy" scene...

I always watch that one during the Xmas season. Along with And God Spoke..., NatLamp Xmas Vacation. And of course, Blackadder Xmas Carol:

Edmund: So, shall I begin the Christmas story?

Prince: Absolutely, as long as it's not that terribly depressing one about the chap who gets born on Christmas Day, shoots his mouth off about everything under the sun, and then comes a cropper with a couple of rum-coves on top of a hill in jolly Arab-land.

Edmund:
You mean Jesus, Sir...

Prince: Yes, that's the fellow. Keep him out of it -- he always spoils the X-mas at-mos.

The whole script of Blackadder Xmas Carol is here:

http://www.blackadderhall.com/specials/9.html

For part of the holidays I will be visiting my relatives in S.C.

Once I tried to put on the "Brian" DVD. They didn't make it thru the first 5 minutes. It degenerated into an argument about sacriligiousness, which ended up sounding like the Abbott and Costello's "Who's On First" routine as re-written by the Spanish Inquisition.