Please help...

[meeshrox]

I'm going to my mother's house for easter...

She's been getting increasingly fundie lately. I know that the rest of the family feels the same way than I do, and no one wants a scene. How do I make the point that we don't give a shit about Jesus without being so insulting? I've tried the usual polite stuff already...

Edited to add: What is your experience with "coming out" to fundie members of you family? How did you handle it without losing your mind or your relationship?

[lazarus]

1. does she bring it up all the time?

My family somehow figured out I'm an atheist without my actually coming out to anyone but my mom and sister. Somehow all my cousins found out, etc. Nobody's bugged me about it. I let them do their little blessing for dinner, that sort of thing, as it doesn't bother me to be quiet for 30 seconds. But if one of them got preachy with me, I'd have to be fairly direct and abrupt with them.

You could always just say, "that's nice, Mom," and change the subject. If she gets insistent, you're going to have to either go along with it or be blunt with her.

[meeshrox]

2. YES!

I think she's in denial about it, if she's even figured it out yet. I'm mostly worried about being blunt with her. Here are a couple of examples of what I'm dealing with:

I was reading "Evolution for Everyone" and she saw it on the table. She looked me in the eye, pinched my chin, and said "sweetie, you know god created everything right?" It's insulting and condescending to say the least. I did try to explain that evolution does not explain the beginning of life. Flew right past her, she didn't care.

I can be quiet for a few seconds during prayer. That's not a big deal. Shit, I even went to a church service when she was baptized. The preacher went on and on about being a public school sub and that he likes to tell the kindergartners about Jesus behind his desk. I had a discussion with my mother about how offended I was and that I'd never be going to service with her again, and she somehow convinced me that reporting that asshole would jeopardize her membership at the church...as if she never taught me that it's not important what other people think of me.

The rest of the family is agnostic or at least "christian liberal". So far, my mother's learned not to try to convert the rest of the family but she's hell-bent on pulling me back in. I think it may be that I'm her oldest daughter and that she thinks she can get to me easiest. Things got complicated when my father died and now she's worried everyone won't join them in heaven. It's absurd, but I don't know how to handle it...I guess I'm more asking for advice on what I can do without unhinging the family.

[lazarus]

3. Hmm

From what I gather, your father's death is part of what sent her on this journey into fundie-ville. That sort of thing can be tough to deal with.

What you may need to do is simply tell her that you're now an adult, and need to have your beliefs (you can leave "lack of belief" out for simplicity) respected as much as you respect her beliefs. If that doesn't work, I don't know. As I said, I haven't had to deal with a fundie I cared about who was pushing stuff on me.

Hopefully someone else will chime in. Good luck with this.

[meeshrox]

4. Thanks for that...

at least I have a week to think about it more!

"That sort of thing can be tough to deal with."
It has been for her. She's still living alone in their 1600 square foot home. I would never try to take away her belief. And trust me, I think she needs it more than anyone to stay "sane" whatever that may be for her!

Thanks again for your encouragement!

On edit: noticed you're a mod now, congrats!

[lazarus]

5. thanks!

I can't imagine staying in a house after a loved one died. Too many memories. We moved within a week of my son's death years ago. Just couldn't stand walking by the nursery door.

The best for your mom may be downsizing to a nice little condo or something.

[meeshrox]

6. We tried...

by the time she was ready, the market crashed and she wouldn't make her equity back. She's also tried getting a roommate without luck. I'm still holding out on her finding a nice rich man (sure, god-fearin' too). I told her she needs to start hanging out around some of the posh country clubs here in Florida!

I'm really sorry to hear about your son. I hope that you've been able to find some peace and comfort.

[lazarus]

7. It was years ago

20, actually. SIDS. Had a really rough few years, but I'm fine now. It turned my ex into a fundie, and I actually got dragged into a church thing for a couple of weeks at my lowest point, but I snapped out of it pretty quickly. Those assholes know how to prey on the emotionally fragile.

[meeshrox]

10. I think that some people need it sometimes...

to get through really hard things, to have absolute certainty at least while they can heal. I just wonder sometimes if my mother might snap out of it... She was raised catholic and because of her experience, never pushed religion on me or my sister growing up. She left it up to my dad to scare me into believing (devil-in-the-basement-baptist-type).

Thanks a lot for sharing. Even though it's been a long time, I'm sorry.

[beam me up scottie]

8. Is she going to disown you over this?

Because, imho, it's not worth severing the bond you have with your mother.

Try telling her again how important and personal this decision is, and that until and unless she finds a way to accept it (or at least stop trying to de-convert you), you may have to start avoiding her. End each conversation as soon as she starts in, and let her know why you are ending it.

I have similar problems with fundie friends who act the same way, they are trying to save me because the luv me. :puke:

I can usually let them chatter away about their religious beliefs, I just zone out, as long as they know the subject of MY lack of religion is off limits.

The difference is, I'm willing to give those friends the boot if they don't leave me alone, are you willing to do the same to your mother?

[meeshrox]

9. I suppose it would be up to her...

to accept me for the person I am if it came down to it.

"they are trying to save me because the luv me."
That's what she says, although she's not trying to convert me, per se. She doesn't know yet. She's trying to "make sure" I'm in line...

I'm worried it will come out before I'm ready to deal with it. I'll be moving across the country within a couple of years (if I can make it happen) and it'll be easier to deal with her long-distance.

Thanks for helping me put it in perspective.

[beam me up scottie]

11. You're in a tough spot because you're trying to be sensitive about it.

Seriously, I've been tempted to tell people I turned jewish, I mean, what they hell? They're too ignorant to know any better and would be too scared to try to convert me. God bothering jews is bad ju-ju, you know.

It took me years to blow my stack and come out where I live, DU was my safe haven - so don't forget, you've always got us when you need a laugh or a place to vent.

[meeshrox]

12. That is wonderful and sweet!

Thanks so much!

I could tell her I've become Buddhist...my uncle (her brother) is and she's stopped trying to convert him. That would be an easy fix since I already do yoga and I've dabbled before. I'll have to think about it a little more, especially since that usually carries vegetarianism. It's not too much of a stretch, I try to be vegie at least 4 days a week anyway. Thanks for the idea!

[lazarus]

13. there's a book out there

called "Buddhism For Atheists", iirc. Focuses on the meditation and zen stuff without all the woo.

[beam me up scottie]

14. Practical buddhism is very beneficial.

And it's so much better without all the woo.

[meeshrox]

17. Thanks to you both!

I'll have to check out the book. I've been into yoga for fitness and core strength. Haven't learned to properly meditate yet.

[meeshrox]

18. I found a book with a similar title

Confession of a Buddhist Atheist - by Stephen Batchelor

That one sounds like that's it...I'll check my local library.
Many thanks! :hi:

[YankeyMCC]

25. That's his latest book

I haven't read it but I read his "Buddhism Without Beliefs" which I found very interesting and helpful.

If you're looking for practical meditation techniques or secular mindfulness practices you might start here: http://buddhism.about.com/b/2009/10/12/secular-mindfulness.htm

In Eastern MA there are several humanist and other unaffiliated groups practicing mindfulness techniques.

Be prepared though. I practice Zen Buddhism (no woo, nothing magical), still atheist, and it seems that once people learn you meditate or have any whiff association with Buddhism many seem to assume you're interested in many wooish things.

[meeshrox]

26. Thanks for the information

As I mentioned before, I already practice yoga and deep breathing techniques associated with "power" yoga (can't remember the name). I'm sure it would be beneficial for my blood pressure to learn to meditate, too. I don't imagine it's that much of a stretch from what I've already familiar with. I'll be sure to look into secular mindfulness practices; I never heard of that, but it sounds very interesting.

[cynatnite]

15. I smile and nod a lot with my RW fundie nutjob family...

It's a complete waste of time to tell them how I feel because they'll either ignore it or jump my ass.

For me, it's just not worth the hassles. I smile like an idiot, go along in order to pacify them, and just let them have the last word...on everything.

So far it's a strategy that's worked.

[meeshrox]

16. That's what I've been doing

but it seems like the condescension is increasing. I'm just thinking of the benefits to actually being able to be myself around my mother. I guess I can feel it out and always go back to the default and "smile like an idiot", too.

[onager]

19. By now, I should have some helpful strategies on this...

Unfortunately I don't. I usually default to "smile like an idiot." Which in my case is not much of a stretch. :-)

Mom and I have just pretty much agreed to disagree about religion. Privately, I've asked her not to "do me the honor" of saying grace at family dinners. Every once in a while she blows up and says I "don't believe in anything." But overall we just don't talk about it.

Things got complicated when my father died and now she's worried everyone won't join them in heaven.

Pretty much the same here. My mother sincerely believes in life after death.

I used to snark more, especially when my fundie relatives would come over and start whining about school prayer, abortion, etc.

I saw that some of my smart-ass remarks cut my mother pretty deeply. Like all of us, she's getting older and is the only mother I have, so I don't want to hurt her feelings unnecessarily.

So when the whining starts now, I just sit and burn. Or try to have a copy of SKEPTIC magazine nearby as a silent protest. Or leave the room...

Oh, my family is on the East Coast and I'm in Los Angeles. There are several reasons for that, this being one of them.

Good luck with your situation!

[meeshrox]

20. Thanks a lot for sharing

It helps to know that many have gone through this before me. :)

I'm trying to put things in order to move to Portland, OR with my husband in the next couple of years. It's just something I feel we have to do...mostly to keep our sanity. Florida is a much different place, not nearly so many cool hippies around here! No kids now...I doubt if ever (something else that annoys her, she wants grandbabies).

I haven't really been too snarky, I guess. I don't have many opportunities to discuss things with the family without my mother around. We seem to keep the conversation to philosophy (my brother-in-law's favorite) and hobbies. The extent of our political conversation is her bringing up that her taxes are going up because of Obama and me flashing her a "really? WTF?" look. Oh, yeah, and it was fun to explain to her the double-meaning of teabaggers! :evilgrin:

One thing that I've noticed about my in-laws, too...I'd prefer to ignore their attempts at conversion for the simplicity of it. They live in Tallahassee, which may as well be po-dunk enter-southern-state-here. They send prayer cards and clippings from their christian magazines, but that's easier to ignore since they are 4 hours away.

Anyway, thanks so much for some insight into dealing with fundie family members. Ya'll are wonderful for helping me out!

[Warpy]

27. The geographical cure is always a good idea

when you're pretty sure your family is making you crazy. It only works when it's them and not you, though.

The other thing that works is leaving the room when someone is using you as a verbal punching bag. Let them rant at the wall for a while, then come back and sweetly ask if they're done. This is especially effective if you've already done the geographical cure and they're all too aware that they're in danger of never seeing you again.

Mostly, realize your job is not to educate parents. You can set some behavior limits with them, but that's the best you can hope for.

You'll miss them more than you ever thought possible when they're gone.

[awoke_in_2003]

21. That is a tough one...

especially the "life after death" thing. The hardest part of giving up the belief was resigning myself to the fact that I would never see my mother (who died on thanksgiving day when I was 13) again. Some hang on to religion just to keep up that belief. I don't know what to tell you, because I can be rather blunt when people are up in my face over religion. But since this is your mom, I would have to agree with what others here have said- smile and change the subject, or smile and give her a hug- moms dig hugs, especially from their adult children.

[meeshrox]

22. Agreed...

hugs are a fantastic way to diffuse the situation with my mother...

I guess what I've been doing is the usual for many atheists...am I correct? I figured that others that came out must have had some big blowout with their families. I suppose the best thing is to keep doing what I'm doing?

Thanks!

[awoke_in_2003]

23. I was lucky...

in that my father is a very open minded person. Hell, he has to be, an atheist son and two daughters who are gay- we aren't exactly the Cleaver family :)

[meeshrox]

24. Nice!

Yeah, my father was not open minded. But, all of a sudden lesbians were nice ladies once he met his niece and her girlfriend. Funny, that...personal experience changing someone's opinion. Perhaps there's hope if my father changed his mind away from hate in that instance.

[and-justice-for-all]

28. Easter has nothing to do with jeebus...

it is a fertility holiday and like all the other 'religious' holidays, were hijacked by the church because they did not have any holidays, so they stole them from 'pagan' rituals.

PS: jeebus never existed.

[meeshrox]

29. Well, sure! But my mother insists otherwise...

I understand where easter and christmas came from and that jeebus was more likely born in february or in the summer for all we know! My mother is having easter dinner at her house and I'm concerned her zealot side will try to overrule her civil side...something I'm less inclined to take lightly now-a-days...

[onager]

30. Celebrate with us here on DU!

Just mosey over to the Religion/Theology forum.

Every year on Easter Sunday, somebody starts a thread with the subject: "He Is Risen!"

Non-believers respond.

Hilarity ensues.

:evilgrin:

[meeshrox]

31. I'll have to check it out...

thanks for the heads-up, too...I'll have an extra couple of days to think of some good stuff! I'm not so funny on my toes!

[lazarus]

32. the classic

So, Jesus rises from the tomb, and if he sees his shadow, we have 6 more weeks of Spring, right? Or is it if he doesn't see his shadow, I can never remember...

[and-justice-for-all]

33. It is zombie jeebus day as far as I am concerned...

some people are just unreasonable and unreachable.. Just take comfort that you know the facts.

[Soylent Brice]

34. i vote that you do what i do. make a scene.

you only live once. i'd rather make a scene and laugh at the reactions and awkwardness, as opposed to being tortured and succumb to someone's fucking fantasies.

but that's just me.

[meeshrox]

35. Such is my plight...do I risk putting off my own mother?

And that is why I'm so torn...she's always taught me to stand up for myself. She just doesn't like it when I stand up to her! I think I'll need some humor to cut the tension...or at least a case of beer!

[Soylent Brice]

36. there's your ammo right there.

when you do confront her, start off telling her that you're very thankful for instilling in you the ability to stand up for yourself. and then say that's why you'd like her to refrain from the jeebus talk (or however you'd like to phrase it).

or you could do what i did with my own mother, (who is a self-centered, manipulative, miserable, leeching, gambling addict) and just tell her that you don't want to hear about her obsession with a fairy tale written by men in order to control the dumb masses that she was brainwashed to believe in from the time she could start talking.

:shrug:

but hey, i'm no expert.

worked for me. she knows better than to get all hallelujah around me. she now only bothers me with her perpetual need for money and constant let-downs.