How many religious texts have you read?

[lazarus]

I've read the Bible twice (a long time ago), and am reading it again now.

I've read all the Mormon texts. Silly Mormons.

And after I finish the Bible I'm doing the Koran.

[Warpy]

1. Good luck on the Koran

It's a series of astonishingly long winded, rambling sermons. I managed to do about a quarter of it before it defeated me.

Reward yourself with the Gita Govinda when you're done. It's filthy.

[lazarus]

2. That's Hindu, right?

I'm looking forward to exploring Hindu when I finish Islam.

[realisticphish]

3. yeah

i tried the koran, and boy. Just couldn't do it.

I've read the bible probably 90%; mostly in bits in pieces, while trying to stay awake during church

[lazarus]

4. try

the Skeptic's Annotated Bible. It does a nice job of pointing out all the silliness and contradictions. It even links to Christians' responses. Those are fun to read.

[realisticphish]

5. that's a good point

i may give it a shot

[EvolveOrConvolve]

6. The Koran was soooooo boring

Between the killing of unbelievers and all the sermons, I could barely stomach. Anyone who says it's "poetic" or "divinely inspired" needs to pass me some of whatever they're smoking. It's truly an absolutely gawd-awful book.

[onager]

8. Agreed. The Koran is supposed to sound better in classical Arabic...

At least that's what I've heard/read during my 6 years living in Muslim countries.

Never heard any English translation described as "poetic," but the original is supposed to be.

Myself, I suspect it's the same tedious nonsense in any language, but I guess the believers think it sounds prettier in Arabic.

I sure don't. I was unwillingly and frequently exposed to "Koranic chanters" blasting thru my workplace in Egypt. Sometimes one guy had a favorite chanter, another one had different fave, and they would try to drown each other out. Man, THAT was fun!

In my ignorant Western-atheist opinion, all the Koranic chanters sounded like donkeys being sodomized by a cactus.

One day I was at a job site and the Egyptians were playing some nice Arabic pop music over the P.A. system, by a female singer. Probably one of the zillion Lebanese teen pop-tarts who make a career out of annoying Islamic fundamentalists, much to my personal delight.

Anyhow, a supervisor came in and put a stop to that. In no time we had the Koran rattling the speakers again. Argh!

Some more Koranic trivia, long as I'm here:

--Devout Muslims will concede they need translations to proselytize, but they are not happy with the idea of translating the Koran into anything.

It was dictated to Mohammed in Classical Arabic - which is considered THE sacred language. So if you want to be a REAL Muslim, you will learn Arabic.

This uppity attitude seems to cause problems in places like Indonesia, where most of the population is Muslim but not many people speak Arabic. Occsaionally I would run across a newspaper article etc. about this.

--Mini-Korans are used all over the Middle East sort of like St. Christophers in the Western world. They are carried on the dashboards of cars. They work about as well as any other icon, meaning they can often be seen after a wreck covered in broken glass. And blood.

[FiveGoodMen]

11. "It was dictated to Mohammed in Classical Arabic - which is considered THE sacred language"

And half the American xtians think the bible was dictated in King James' English.

[lazarus]

12. If it was good enough for Jesus

it's good enough for me.

I actually heard that back when the KJV vs modern translation brouhaha was in full swing.

[FiveGoodMen]

14. Yup. The mind boggles.

[onager]

16. That was an actual quote. (Or at least apocryphal...)

"If the English language was good enough for Jesus Christ, it's good enough for me." - supposedly said by Texas Governor Miriam ("Ma") Ferguson, during a debate on bilingual education in the 1930's.

[lazarus]

17. wow

I read it in a Baptist magazine in the '70s, in a letter to the editor.

[darkstar3]

38. The quote is old and widespread.

I'm not sure anyone knows where it came from, but I've heard it several times since childhood. My favorite twisting of that idea was used in "A Knight's Tale."

"Well, the pope may be French, but Jesus is English!"

[EvolveOrConvolve]

26. "...like donkeys being sodomized by a cactus." - LOL

Thanks for the biggest laugh I've had in a while. :rofl:

BTW, I loved your stories from Egypt, especially the religious stuff - I'm almost sorry that you no longer live there. I'm a white boy from Idaho, and I've never really traveled so reading about someone who's actually living as an atheist in a Muslim country is fascinating.

[ZombieHorde]

7. Too many to count. nt

[Deep13]

9. The Christian Bible except for all the begats and other lists.

I tended to skim the acid trip parts. If something is important enough to say, it is important enough for plain language.

I did that when I was religious. Now I don't bother as there are far better-written books out there to spend my limited time on.

[realisticphish]

15. thats kind of my position

i certainly respect people wanting to learn about the various faiths, but i personally have little interest in it. I know enough to smack down the most egregiously bad arguments, but I'm no theologist, and have no interest in being one.

My reading list is gigantic without adding nonsense ;)

[awoke_in_2003]

49. Doyle's (from slingblade)

summary of the bible
"This one begat that one and that one begat this one, and lo and behold someone says some shit to someone else" :)

[yellerpup]

10. Bible, Koran, Kama Sutra, Lao Tse

Joseph Campbell (I think it's relevant), Masonry, Madam Blavatsky, Bagavagita (sp) ...pretty much everything that helps me make a good argument against anyone's religion.

[lazarus]

13. I agree Campbell is relevant

I've got a Mason's Bible in storage, I need to get at that.

[yellerpup]

20. I never saw a Mason's Bible.

I bought a huge old tome of rituals at a garage sale that I found hard to follow. I always wanted to know what Grandpa was keeping secret.

[lazarus]

21. neat

I'd love to have something like that. I think my Dad was a Mason at one point.

[yellerpup]

23. Masonry is an old, old tradition.

I read a novel about the construction of Stonehenge in which the builders were Masons. (sorry, I've gone up on the title :blush: I've also seen Masonic symbols in Eqyptian art featuring the Pyramids or more likely honoring those who built it. My great-aunt left me a small velvet box with ivory Masonic symbols in it which are all tools for measurement and carpentry. My grandpa didn't go to church but he was a true-to-the-bone Mason. :hi: I'd send you my ritual book but I gave it away in 2004.

[lazarus]

24. I find this stuff fascinating

I just like collecting weird things, I guess.

[yellerpup]

25. Me, too.

I'm always ready to learn more.

[enlightenment]

27. Did you hear that popping sound?

That was my historian head exploding.

Somebody wrote a novel suggesting the Masons built Stonehenge?

argh.

Almost all the men in my family (both sides) were Masons, except my father. He didn't hold much truck with it.

Kept them out of the bars and whorehouses, I guess . . .

[yellerpup]

30. Maybe it kept your family out of the bars, etc....

but it didn't work that way for everyone! ;)

[enlightenment]

32. Come to think of it . . .

my dad was the only teetotaler in the family . . .
:evilgrin:

[awoke_in_2003]

50. Ex Mason here...

yes, masonry is VERY old. Prior to the 1700's, it primarily consisted of trained artisan guilds (operative masons). Then, during the 1700's, non practicing stone masons (speculative masons) started getting into it, stealing what they could and inventing the rest.

[realisticphish]

51. could you tell me

i don't know how serious you take the secrecy aspect, but to what extent is religion a part of masonry?

assuming you mean ex mason-the-group and not mason-the-bricklayer

[awoke_in_2003]

52. At the basic "Blue Lodge"

level, you have to profess a belief in A god. If you go to appendant bodies it may change. If you go into the York Rite (which tops out with Knights Templar) you have to be christian. May be the same with Scottish Rite, not quite sure though. During rituals in the Blue Lodge, common religious symbols and such are sometimes used, while the York Rite will hit more on the new testemant. One note- I am being generic here and not really giving any secrets- you can find a lot on the web, and even the Masonic websites give more detail. I will not get into specific wording, what happens at rituals or reveal handshakes. I may not be a believer anymore, but I did swear not to reveal secrets. I may have sworn to a god (which I no longer believe exists), but it was my word.

[realisticphish]

53. oh, sure

I appreciate what you've said.


We need to officially form the Illuminati, so we heathens can have a secret club too :D

[awoke_in_2003]

54. the so called "secrets"

are really no big deal. The internet is amazingly accurate- but I can't tell what parts are accurate :rofl:

[realisticphish]

55. scientologists

make the same claim about Xenu and all that

"Uh, no, those aren't the REAL secrets, heh, heh, heh"

[awoke_in_2003]

56. seriously...

most of it can be found in the bible- the "real" secrets are mainly juvenille (like handshakes)

[realisticphish]

57. i have a feeling

it would be an enormous let down once you got in. They probably just sit around all the time, play poker, and drink beer, just like the eagles, mooses, or any other fraternal organization


still, being part of the worldwide One Government conspiracy...though I guess we ARE in Big Yak already

[awoke_in_2003]

58. everything but the alcohol part...

no alcohol in the lodge. Templars get an exemption, as they use wine in one of the ceremonies. And a good commander always buys the higher octane stuff :)

[realisticphish]

59. so they sit around and dont drink

might as well go to church ;)

[realisticphish]

29. several members of my family were masons

i would almost consider it, if they didn't require the belief in a higher power. I just want to know what the fuss is about ;)

Plus, I'd be a Big Pharma Shill, Atheist, Liberal, AND a Mason. The ultimate in conspiracy theories

[yellerpup]

31. I read the book and I still don't know what the fuss is about.

[realisticphish]

33. i think it's the idea of secrecy

the same reason kids always want to form secret clubs with hideouts, etc. This is just that on an adult scale

[yellerpup]

34. Like skull & bones, only with hammers.

Good observation.

[Jokerman]

18. I don't read much fiction.

I read the bible once in college just to see what the fuss was all about. I still don't know.

I do however have a tremendous amount of respect for people who can shoot down the "it says so in the bible" argument by using their own "sacred texts" against them.

[onager]

19. Oh, to answer the OP...

The Bible umpteen times, the Koran, the Apocrypha. Some Buddhism and other eastern religions. My bookshelves are also decorated with quite a few works on witchcraft, demonology and the like. And of course, stuff about atheism.

As an adult, I found it very useful to read the Bible right alongside Isaac Asimov's Guide to the Old/New Testament(s).

That was a real eye-opener. Asimov is great for pointing out obvious propaganda written by the Jewish priesthood, usually to preserve their undeserved wealth and perks.

He also tells "the rest of the story," as they say on the TV news shows. e.g., Jezebel wasn't a brazen hussy who was killed for her immorality.

She was actually an older woman forced into a loveless political marriage. As a foreigner and non-Jew, she was a lightning rod for the priesthood, who whipped up the people against her.

It's really a story of incredible courage. A woman sitting in a room, putting on her make-up, even as she hears a howling mob outside, knowing they are on the way to kill her.

I never heard THAT version in Baptist Sunday School...

Another good interpreter is Randal Helms, author of "Who Really Wrote The Gospels?" and many other books of criticism. He makes a compelling case that the Gospel of Luke was written by a woman.

[lazarus]

22. I forgot the Apocrypha

I bought the OT and NT in two volumes for my daughter's Mithrasmas, and intend to read them soon.

I'll have to get the Asimov. I've heard about it before, and never tracked it down.

[enlightenment]

28. Asimov was brilliant. I have his Guide to Shakespeare.

Fantastic read!

http://www.amazon.com/Asimovs-Guide-Shakespeare-Understanding-Enjoying/dp/0517268256

[Kolesar]

35. I was Orthodox Catholic, so my dogma came premasticated

I read the Book of Ruth when I was in college for an assignment with a sweet Indiana girl. I used to have the Nicean Creed memorized.

[meeshrox]

36. Not really all the way through, but I got the point:

Bible

Also, the I Ching and Tao Te Ching...does Carl Sagan count?

[vixengrl]

37. The Bible, the Apocrypha and

scads of "lost gospels". Also much commentary and archeaology books regarding same. Never could sort out how the the editors figured out what to keep, what to toss. I like Asimov's Guide to the Bible--he's good at pointing out what one might have missed. I tried the Koran, but like others, I just couldn't stick with it. No narrative. It needed a good editor. The Book of Mormon--I found my copy in a heap of old books someone had put out on the curb for the trashman. Not a terrible piece of Biblical fanfic, but a bit long-ish. Probably could have got the main parts in in a filk-song. (This is probably less disrespectful than my contention that the Tao Teh Ching reads better as a series of verses printed on small slips of paper and tucked into folded wafers.)

I've read a lot of comparative mythology, from the Enuma Elish through to the Principia Discordia. The Book of the Dead (my tats are Egyptian--an Ankh and the Eye of Horus). I've read Crowley. Lots of Crowley. And heaps of stuff that involve lighting candles, getting nekkid, and sending positive energy. (The getting nekkid bits are often quite effective magick.) I have utterly failed at getting good at Enochian or managing any facility with Kabbalah (I don't really care for Soduku, either.)

I've also read the Dhammapada and lots of Buddhist texts, especially regarding Tibetan buddhism--I find meditation to be useful as a wool-gathering device, for getting my ducks in a row, and for remembering where I've put things. I'm not sure about enlightenment, but accepting suffering, stilling the mind, and blocking out the thousand and one things can at least serve to make one efficient.

[onager]

47. Some Egyptian tat trivia for you...

In Egypt, Bedouin women from the Western Desert tattoo their resumes on their forearms, or so I'm told. These are symbol patterns that represent phrases like: "Excellent seamstress, good cook, can carry 4 live chickens on her head..." Yep, this is meant to help them acquire a husband.

I found that fascinating. Bedouins didn't often come into the city (Alexandria, in my case), but they were instantly identifiable by the women's facial "dot" tattoos.

One hot day I was cooling off by walking around a canal in Alexandria. I saw a man and woman with a toddler-sized girl.

The woman's heavy face/arm tattoos led me to believe she was Bedouin. The baby had her own tattoos on her legs and arms, which looked like henna. (I hope!) The man wore a Western-style business suit, not the near-universal gellibyah. And had no visible tattoos.

So I guessed that was a Bedouin woman married to a non-Bedouin husband. Which I'd think is VERY rare. In general the Bedouin stick to themselves and don't associate with people outside their tribe.

As for Muslim Egyptians, tattoos are officially forbidden by Islam. Many men get them anyway, usually a small crecent moon tattooed between the thumb and forefinger. Egyptian Xians often have a cross tattooed in the same place.

[sakabatou]

39. I've read the Tanakh and the Christian Bible

[lazarus]

40. I'm not familiar with the Tanakh

What is that?

[sakabatou]

41. That's the Jewish Bible

It contains the five books of Moses, the prophets and other writings.

[lazarus]

42. Thanks

I had never heard it called that before.

[sakabatou]

43. YOu probably wouldn't, unless you knew some Hebrew

[lazarus]

44. nope, no Hebrew

I really should learn it, as I'd like to read some of this stuff in the original, but there are so many languages I want to learn...

My Dad's a convert to Judaism, but I don't think he takes it very seriously.

[sakabatou]

45. I only know how to read it

But I don't understand almost any words.

[MrModerate]

46. Can't say I've gotten all the way through any of 'em . . .

Despite having copies of the Bible, the Koran, the Book of Mormon, and a variety of Hindu-influenced texts lying around my house for decades.

That having been said, I could never complete Mother Goose or the Tales of Hans Christian Andersen (or even the Chronicles of Narnia) either. Bad fantasy, weirdly phrased, just doesn't do it for me.

[awoke_in_2003]

48. Parts of the Bible...

A bunch of Emmanual Swedenborg and Ellen G. White. Funny thing about those two- both claimed to have visions. Both suffered from seizures. I had a seizure problem from 18-27. Let me tell you, when the electrical firings in your brain get scrambled you can see all kinds of weird shit (hmmm, maybe it also explains seeing a light in "near death" experiences, or looking down on your body?)

[iris27]

60. The Bible quite a lot when I was Christian...

...think I made it all the way through 3 times, and of course numerous re-readings of certain sections as they came up in sermons/bible study/parochial school religion classes/etc.

I have no interest now in reading this or any other religious texts; there are far too many yet-to-be-read books on my bookshelf as it is.