Regarding arguing with creationists

[Tobin S.]

I ran across this quote from a lecture given by Stephen Jay Gould in 1985 regarding debating creationists. I think the logic here could be useful to remember for any kind of debate, but it's in the context of arguing with creationists:

"Debate is an art form. It is about the winning of arguments. It is not about the discovery of truth. There are certain rules and procedures to debate that have nothing to do with establishing fact- which they are very good at. Some of those rules are: never say anything positive about your own position because it can be attacked, but chip away at what appear to be weaknesses in your opponent's position. They are good at that. I don't think I could beat the creationists at debate. I can tie them. But in courtrooms they are terrible, because in courtrooms you cannot give speeches. In a courtroom you have to answer direct questions about the positive status of your belief. We destroyed them in Arkansas. On the second day of the two week trial, we had our victory party!"

Anyone know what trial he's referring to?

[rug]

1. McLean v. Arkansas Board of Education

http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/mclean-v-arkansas.html

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=4726786

[Tobin S.]

2. Thanks rug!

Man, you don't say much, but you are on the ball with the searches and links and such. :thumbsup: :D

[Odin2005]

3. I really miss Gould.

He was a brilliant paleontologist and a great popularizer of Evolutionary Biology. he also really pissed off the Right Wing with his book The Mismeasure of Man, a scathing attack on IQ tests that was a response to the racist AEI hack Charles Murray's book The Bell Curve.

[laconicsax]

4. Too bad his NOMA concept is the foundation of accomodationists. n/t

[Odin2005]

5. That's true, sadly.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

6. See my sig. No, not the Motörhead-Garfield toon. Below that. -nt

[Tobin S.]

7. lol! I hadn't notice that before.

Did you come up with that? I always thought that Garfield toon was funny, too.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

8. It was from a post by another DUer.

Don't ask me who, though. It is lost in the sands of time.

[and-justice-for-all]

9. There is no debate to have with them....

A) They have no prove for their claims and B) they never will.

In order for creationist to have any argument at all, they first need to prove the existence of their invisible friend; something they never will be able to do.