Vectron! I hate NOMA with a passion!

[laconicsax]

The concepts of religion ("fiction") and science don't overlap, but in practice, fiction can't stop pretending to be an accurate description of reality. NOMA is nothing but an illusion that hinders the dissemination of knowledge. What demands does it make on those who accept reality for what it is?

"Keep your facts to yourself."

What demands does it make on those who prefer pedantic fiction?

"Remember that reality and fiction are different and use that fact the next time someone tells you that your beliefs have been proven to be wrong"

Someone quick name a mainstream fiction that makes no empirical claims about the physical world. Anyone?

Let's review just a couple empirical claims made by the Bible (a book believed as http://www.gallup.com/poll/14107/Third-Americans-Say-Evidence-Has-Supported-Darwins-Evolution-Theory.aspx">literal by a http://www.harrisinteractive.com/vault/Harris-Interactive-Poll-Research-Religious-Beliefs-2008-12.pdf">majority of http://b27.cc.trincoll.edu/weblogs/AmericanReligionSurvey-ARIS/reports/ARIS_Report_2008.pdf">Christians) shall we?

Earth, if not the universe was magicked into existence less than 10,000 years ago.
People, if not all life was magicked into existence less than 10,000 years ago.

Non-Overlapping magesteria my ass!

What happens when people not only substitute fiction for reality, but are encouraged to do so AND shielded from reality by accomodationists working to keep their "non-overlapping" beliefs from the spotlight of scrutiny? Guidelines where "The universe is 13.6 billion years old" is acceptable but "The universe is much older than 10,000 years" is an unacceptable attack on a student's deeply held fictions. Vectron have mercy if you have the audacity to say "the literal account of Genesis is wrong."

"How DARE you tell someone that their beliefs are demonstrably wrong? Don't you know that science and religion are non-overlapping magisteria? You can't tell them that their beliefs are wrong because science has nothing to say on religion!"

Oddly enough (not really) both Francis Collins and Richard Dawkins are in complete agreement on NOMA being total crap.

TIME: Stephen Jay Gould, a Harvard paleontologist, famously argued that religion and science can coexist, because they occupy separate, airtight boxes. You both seem to disagree.

COLLINS: Gould sets up an artificial wall between the two worldviews that doesn't exist in my life. Because I do believe in God's creative power in having brought it all into being in the first place, I find that studying the natural world is an opportunity to observe the majesty, the elegance, the intricacy of God's creation.

DAWKINS: I think that Gould's separate compartments was a purely political ploy to win middle-of-the-road religious people to the science camp. But it's a very empty idea. There are plenty of places where religion does not keep off the scientific turf. Any belief in miracles is flat contradictory not just to the facts of science but to the spirit of science.

(http://www.time.com/time/printout/0,8816,1555132,00.html">link)

Collins, as an idiot, perfectly demonstrates the lopsidedness of NOMA--its "artificial wall" declares all fictional ideas off-limits meaning that someone spouting his drivel is protected by "moderates" (read: enablers) from those living in the real world.

I could be in a worse mood than normal because of accomodationist bullshit in another forum compounded by watching the Voyager episode "Sacred Ritual" in which Janeway is mocked for having "blind faith" in the idea that given enough time and the right tools, the answer will be uncovered, decides that the 800 years of scientific progress (by the 24th century) was nothing but a faith-based exercise with no tangible results, takes a leap of faith, and gets depressed when the data collected reveals to a natural cause. :puke: Never mind the fact that the 'cure' to Kes' problem is essentially homeopathic. (Technobabble: Deadly, diluted technobabble: life-saving.)

Seriously, just seven years after that brilliant TNG episode "Who Watches the Watchers," we get yet another "faith rocks! Suck it science!" pile from the 4th worst Trek series. What is the first thing Janeway does after "realizing" that science IS faith? She uses her insignia-sized communication device to contact a orbiting, interstellar spaceship made of synthetic materials with artificial gravity to tell them to send someone on life-support down to the planet using a matter-energy transportation device despite the objections of a holographic doctor projected by a computer and held together with force fields. I may have missed something, but that in itself gives a score of

Science: 11 _{(Communication device, orbiting spaceship, interstellar travel, synthetic materials, artificial gravity, life-support, matter-energy transportation device, hologram, light projector, computer, force fields.)}
Faith: 0

[lazarus]

1. great post

wish I could recommend it.

[Deep13]

2. Agreed! NOMA is politically correct horseshit. nt

[immoderate]

3. You almost got me there. Too many acronyms.

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Noma may refer to:

* Noma (disease), a disease caused by malnutrition
* Noma, Florida, a town in the United States
* NoMa, Washington, D.C., United States, a neighborhood in the District of Columbia
* Noma pony, a rare pony breed native to Japan
* The Noma Literary Prize, established 1941
* The Noma Literacy Prize, established 1980
* The Noma Award, an African literary award
* Noma (restaurant), in Copenhagen, Denmark
* The iteration mark "々", used in Japanese writing

As an acronym

* NOMA (company), a Christmas light manufacturer
* New Orleans Museum of Art in New Orleans, Louisiana
* NOMA, the idea of Non-overlapping magisteria, an approach to the conflicts between
  science and religion proposed by Stephen Jay Gould


* A common misspelling of "nu mă", from the Moldovan pop song "Dragostea din tei"
* Northwestern Ontario Municipal Association

I figured it out, but for a minute there I thought I would have to learn Moldovan, which I thought was a shoe color.

Now that I know what you are referring to, I'll support that NOMA is whack. NOLA, LOMA, and MOMA are still OK, though.

--imm

[trotsky]

4. LOL

I never saw that Voyager episode but it sounds like I should be pretty glad I didn't. :)

Great post.