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Home » Discuss » DU Groups » Science & Skepticism » Atheists and Agnostics Group Donate to DU
 
darkstar3 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-03-11 12:04 AM
Original message
I had to go there.
I know, I know, being an atheist, or any religious minority, is not the same as being black, because one is a choice and the other is in-born. But goddammit these people need to understand that bigotry and persecution are inexcusable regardless of the minority they are directed at.

So clench and groan if you must, but I just didn't see any other way to get the point across than throwing down the "back of the bus" reference.

If anyone has any suggestions, that'd be great.
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laconicsax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-03-11 12:39 AM
Response to Original message
1. People who don't want to see it will never see it.
See: "Post racial" America.
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awoke_in_2003 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-03-11 12:56 AM
Response to Original message
2. It all comes down to minorities...
African Americans are minorities in this country. Homosexuals are minorities in this country, Atheists are minorities in this country. We are all hated.
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laconicsax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-03-11 01:36 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. There's one majority that's hated--women.
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awoke_in_2003 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-03-11 10:12 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. good point. nt
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cleanhippie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-03-11 12:02 PM
Response to Original message
5. I support you, but I think it is obvious that ignorance and hypocrisy is what they want.
But you are right. Go there. I'm there with you.
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Ninjaneer Donating Member (577 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-03-11 01:33 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. + 1 n/t
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Iggo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-03-11 02:32 PM
Response to Original message
7. I dunno about you, but...
...I sure as hell can't choose to believe in a god or gods.
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Deep13 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-03-11 03:27 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. The only real question is if we are going to pretend we do.
And not believing are we going to pretend that we find the religious point of view to be reasonable.
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Iggo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-03-11 03:51 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. Ah, yes.
It is my choice on whether or not I (re)join their gang.
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awoke_in_2003 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-04-11 03:00 PM
Response to Original message
10. I have another take on this....
atheism isn't a choice, religion is. I had a friend (who is kind of a believer) say "you know, we are born not believing in god- it has to be "taught" to us"
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FiveGoodMen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-11 10:18 AM
Response to Reply #10
13. I think we're born not having any firm opinion on the matter
But that's not atheism except in the most literal sense.

The kind of atheism that says, "I've given the matter some thought and don't find any of the religious narratives convincing. I think it's all probably made up," really IS a choice as far as I can tell.

(Of course, the "Does free will even exist?" battle rages on...if the answer to that is 'no' then there's no such thing as a choice.

But I don't find that argument convincing...)
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awoke_in_2003 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-11 12:12 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. you have a point...
in my case, I grew up in a christian household. I never bought into those stories of walking on water, feeding 5000 people with a couple fish and a loaf of bread, and all those animals on Noah's Ark. Oh, I could the words, but deep down I never believed them.
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cleanhippie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-11 01:22 PM
Response to Reply #13
15. Correct, we are not born with an opinion on the matter, we are born with a lack of belief.
And a lack of belief IS atheism. Nothing more, nothing less.
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FiveGoodMen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-11 01:29 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. Well, that's a topic that generates debate.
PZ Myers over at http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/ has taken a stand against that definition.

I don't really care what we call things, but it IS important that we're all using the same dictionary.
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cleanhippie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-07-11 09:20 AM
Response to Reply #16
17. Sure, I guess we can debate what the meaning "is", but we ARE born with a "lack of belief"
And being born with a lack of belief is not debatable, right?
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FiveGoodMen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-07-11 09:27 AM
Response to Reply #17
18. I'm not sure that a considered lack of belief is the same as, "Huh? There's a WHAT in the sky?!"
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Ninjaneer Donating Member (577 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-07-11 01:05 PM
Response to Reply #18
19. Self delete
Edited on Tue Jun-07-11 01:18 PM by Ninjaneer
The PZ Meyer's article brings up some good points.
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Ninjaneer Donating Member (577 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-07-11 01:12 PM
Response to Reply #13
20. self delete n/t
Edited on Tue Jun-07-11 01:19 PM by Ninjaneer
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laconicsax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-04-11 04:08 PM
Response to Original message
11. No doubt you've noticed that the point was still missed. n/t
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onager Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-05-11 05:03 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. Missed, then stuffed with straw and burned.
During the latest school-prayer argument, I got really tired of seeing the claims that Xian free-speech rights were being violated.

That's still boggling my mind. Many posters on that topic, me included, pointed out the obvious - this was a civil rights issue, not a free-speech issue. It became a civil rights issue when the school ignored well-established case law and decided to cram a prayer into a PUBLIC school ceremony.

I'd bet that if it was a school-prayer incident involving Sikhs, Muslims, Jews, Mormons, Seventh-Day Adventists or any similar minority, the same people huffing and puffing about free speech would be blasting the school officials as a bunch of ignorant Fundies. And correctly pointing out that the whole reason we have a Bill Of Rights is to keep the majority from trampling the rights of any minority.

Oh, I forgot. Civil rights issues are NEVER applicable to one certain minority. Apparently George H.W. Bush was right and we aren't citizens after all.
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