Do we have any pantheists in the group?

[Poiuyt]

I've always considered myself to be a secular humanist. My grandfather said that our purpose here on earth is to make it a better place for others, and I have tried to follow that philosophy of life. But there are times when I am just in awe of nature...just the beauty of a nice garden, or the power of Niagara Falls or the majesty of a forest. I can't say that I believe in any overriding theories about god and nature, or that we are connected with nature or anything like that. Just sometimes I feel a kind of spirit that comes out from the trees.

BTW, I'm not exactly a tree-hugger, but I do find it sacrilegious when someone cuts down a tree because he doesn't like to rake the leaves! I feel the same way about that as the anti-abortionists feel about abortion.

[drhilarius]

1. Well, I like to pan theists (rimshot), but seriously...

Pantheism troubles me for the the same reason theism does: it ascribes to a third party qualities, sentiments, and achievements that an individual is responsible for. Here's an example- when i went to the Sistine chapel (a very unatheist thing to do, I know, but it was for the aesthetic experience) I laid on the floor and stared up for what seemed like hours, taking in every square inch of that incredible work of art. My theist trip mates snapped a few pictures and went on their way. The work itself has no intrinsic quality or value, what does have value, however, is your relationship to the aesthetic experience. When you express awe at a sublime aesthetic experience that awe is nothing more than the expression of your sublime encounter with your own humanity, in all its smallness and grandeur.

[Modem Butterfly]

2. Pantheism seems to me to be the opposite of atheism

All diety vs. no diety. I've always thought of pantheism as similar to animism, but that's my personal thing. What does it mean to you?

[Tafiti]

3. Sorry, I do this constantly, but I'm going to...

...recommend a couple books that I think you'd really connect with.

#1 - "A Language Older Than Words" by Derrick Jensen
(also "The Culture of Make Believe" same author)

Derrick Jensen is unabashedly honest when he writes, and it's very moving and emotional. Since you seem to have at least a sense of connectedness with nature, I think you'll really identify with things he says. I suspect many people have felt some things he describes, but never tell anyone for fear they'd be called crazy. Jensen is probably the best writer I have ever read.

#2 - "Ishmael" by Daniel Quinn
(also the next 2 books in the "trilogy" - "The Story of B" and "My Ishmael" in that order) You've probably heard about this, or even read it, but Quinn is a visionary of awesome proportions. I promise this book will blow you away.

[fshrink]

4. I am a tree-hugger!!

I love the feeling. It's like holding onto something strong, resilient anchored in life (probably the way I wish my father had been!). No god in there. Me and a tree. Also, yesterday, for the first time in my life (and I'm 52) I saw Saturn in a telescope recently bought. The feeling of wonderment was so powerful that it made me happy the whole night and the whole day after that. Then I got pissed by the GD forum here and had at have another shot. The Moon this time, 'cause it's very cold out and after a while you shiver so much that you have to stop... Well, Saturn is not a god to me. Again, it's just me and the universe this time. And I love this feeling of being a speck in an infinity! Still no god but tons of things I don't know and don't understand. That's the beauty of life, if you ask me. Religion spoils it all by putting names and absurd and stupid concepts on top of that.

[MelanieArt]

5. I have all sorts of personal theories

on why we feel such a kinship with nature. I think the answer might lie in the fact that we evolved from nature, we are related. Perhaps on some level we realize the connection and are drawn to it.

Or maybe it's imprinted in us because we evolved alongside with it, and our needs are closely tied in with nature. When our ancestors were on the path to becoming what we are now, their survival depended completely on the natural world. They either adapted to its nuances or perished. No wonder we enjoy the sound of rain and the beauty of a spring day.

Also there's the fact that we've evolved to be drawn to what is symmetrical. The natural world is completely made up of symmetry from the veins in a leaf on up.

It always continues to amaze me that religious types think that Atheists are somehow "missing out" on something. It's much more exciting to explore the endless mysteries of the natural world than strict, outdated religious text.

[Phentex]

6. I lean toward scientific pantheism...

but I haven't given myself any labels just yet. It's interesting to me.

[Poiuyt]

8. What's the difference between scientific pantheism and regular pantheism?

[Phentex]

9. link

http://www.pantheism.net/paul/index.htm


I like thse lines...

Scientific pantheism is called scientific not because science endorses pantheism but because scientific pantheism adopts a scientific approach to Reality.

It cleaves to the Real. It sticks to the evidence. It prefers certainty over faith. It prefers simple hypotheses over complex ones, and refuses to multiply unnecessary entities. It accepts the findings of science, and accepts that Reality can often be uncomfortable.

[robbedvoter]

7. I am on a constant pendulum between these two. At times I don't see

any conflict, sometimes I feel I need to make up my mind. (Such as when my kid asks me if fairies are real and I answer - "it would be a shame if they weren't"
I probably never will settle this one in my life time - and the tension between the two is a source of energy, so why kill it?
There is a great movie "Man Friday". peter O'Toole plays the costipated Crusoe in a retelling of the story with Swiftian tones from Friday's point of view. He has a line there" I have Gods in every part of me - and when I dance I worship them all. This banana is a God too" "You are eating your God?Isn't it going to get angry at you?" Crusoe asks sarcastically. "Not if you eat it worshipfully" Friday answers. I recommend renting it - it's the most interesting indictment of the western culture/religion since Gulliver.

[Cleita]

10. From a tree-hugger here and someone who has lived in

the forest for months at a time, I have the same feeling of coming home when I'm in a natural place. If I were to believe in any god, it would be earth as a living planet. As mother earth, she provides us with a place to live, food, water and air to keep us alive, and the simple pleasures of family life to raise the next generation.

She also takes life when she is ready. When you are in the forest you see what a dangerous place our planet really is. The mother doe gives birth to a fawn often to only have its life taken by the mother cougar to feed her cubs. The hawk raids the nest of the woodpecker to feed her fledglings and while she is gone the bobcat will raid her nest to feed her young.

When looking at the stars at night, you become so aware of how unique our planet is. There is no place to go when we kill our mother earth and she can no longer give us life, nurture and death when the time comes.

[Caution]

11. I consider myself a frying pantheist

Does that count? I typically worship my frying pan on saturday mornings while cooking breakfast.