In what ways...

[Bzzzz]

do you feel xtians persecute non-believers?

[rexcat]

1. I don't just "feel" it...

it is a known fact that xtians persecute non-believers based on the historical records and in the current context. Eric Rudolph, the anti-choicers who kill doctors, etc.

[Bzzzz]

2. I get so tired of being...

put down by xtians for my non-belief. I'm debating a woman right now who is making fun of 'free thinkers'. I told her to try and think outside the box, that it was healthy. Her response was..."Would that be a "free thinker" box where all the freel thinkers go to get their information without thought to reality? You only see one side and then don't like it when you perceive someone else doing it."????
This same woman keeps claiming that atheism is a belief and religion of itself. I guess I just don't get 'her'!

[noamnety]

3. For starters

1. Blue laws. I sure don't understand why, as an atheist, I have my shopping hours for some products restricted because of religious laws.

2. Last night I was talking to a woman who has been trying to adopt a child for several years. Her first adoption fell through after she already formed an emotional attachment to the child, because the agency changed their policy part way through the policy so as not to allow single women to adopt because they might be gay. And there are a number of adoption agencies that don't allow atheists to adopt at all, despite using public funds. If there are secular adoption agencies that discriminate against married parents because they are straight or because they are Christian, I've yet to hear about it.

3. If you personally oppose abortion, that's great, don't have one. But when you start stalking women and shrieking at them and taking photos of them going into clinics to publish for the express purpose of harassing them, well ... that's persecution.

4. Singling out children and forcing them to stand in front of a public school classroom and recite the pledge, alone, as punishment for keeping quiet on the "under God" part is persecution. And yes, that happened to me as a child.

5. Forcing people who don't go to church to scrub toilets is persecution. And yes, that happened to me in the Army.

6. Confiscating my tax dollars to give to churches for social programs that discriminate against me is persecution.

7. Trying to impose a church's doctrine on everyone in the form of legislation is persecution. Battling against allowing gay marriage falls into this category. Your religion doesn't like gay marriage? Fine, don't have one. We aren't forcing anyone's church to marry gay people.

8. Using tax payer funded events as an excuse to advance your religion (prayers led or organized by public officials at a public event). Why can't the people who feel like praying do it silently at any point before the meeting starts? What is the purpose of the public spectacle of it? Please stop taking time out of public meetings to make everyone to acknowledge your religion. It's inappropriate.

9. Laws in a number of states forbidding atheists from being sworn into office.

10. Statements from US Presidents claiming that atheists shouldn't be considered citizens or patriots.

11. Using the congress to award medals to people for helping to overthrow "godless" regimes.

12. Restricting access and funding of specific prescription drugs because of religious beliefs is persecution. If you don't like a certain medication because of your religion, don't use it, but don't deny me the right to have it covered under my insurance plan, and don't use tax dollars to fund organizations that restrict access to medical care based on religious views.

13. Denying an honor roll certificate to an elementary student at a public school because he wouldn't participate in mandatory prayer time is persecution.

14. Courts mandating that DUI offenders attend AA meetings, specifically - a program of treatment that focuses on prayer and the need to turn your will and life over to God. If you refuse to attend, you can be jailed.

I'm sure others can add to this list.

[beam me up scottie]

4. Wow, Iwfern ! Your #5 sounds exactly like what they did

to a few of us in Marine Corps boot camp.

First, we were forced to attend services, we had no choice.

My friend's father hired a lawyer and after threats, the DI's allowed us to stay behind but we were forced to do the other recruits' laundry, polish everyone's boots, clean their guns and polish their brass along with many other duties.

After my friend's father brought in the ACLU, they let us use it as free time.

[noamnety]

6. I didn't think to fight it

I just became baptist for a few weeks.

[beam me up scottie]

7. I never would have fought it either,

but my friend was from a well-to-do family.
I guess when their rights are violated, they are in a better position to do something about it.
I have also always been an atheist.
When I was a kid, I got used to being told to shut up and wait.
And because I was a kid, I did.
I didn't want to draw attention to the fact that I was different.
They count on that, I think.

[MindPilot]

9. drawing attention to oneself is the last thing one wants to do in boot ca

Same situation for me in Navy boot; protestant, catholic, or work detail. So I just switched off each Sunday. Coming from a family with a Southern Baptist father and Anglican mother, that was easy.

[onager]

11. Obviously you needed an atheist D.I.!

That forced church bullshit comes from the fucking Chaplains at the Recruit Depots--a species so useless that the Marine Corps doesn't bother having its own, and has them foisted on it by the Navy.

I used to tell my recruits they were a lot better off staying in the barracks than going to the Big Magic Show on Sunday mornings. I also told them they had better study their weapons instead of their chosen Holy Mutterings...as the rifle might save their ass someday, whereas Jesus, Mohammed, Vishnu and that entire crew had a long history of failing to show up just when they were needed the most.

Unfortunately, I was a victim of my own success, and one of the Chaplain Charlies noticed a sudden drop in Spookery attendance from our recruit series.

So this asshat put out an order that at least 50% of each platoon WOULD be at Sunday services each week.

No problem. I just went down the platoon, alternately and instantly converting every member: "You're Catholic. You're Protestant. You're Catholic...OK, that's fifty per cent. The rest of you stay here and do something useful."

One Fundamentalist yahoo objected to being a Temporary Catholic, but saw the error of his ways when I offered him the job of Permanent Head Deck-Scrubber With A Toothbrush In His Teeth.

[beam me up scottie]

12. No doubt

it's the only time they are guaranteed a captive audience.

[MindPilot]

14. On behalf of the United States Navy

I would like to apologize for the chaplains. But the last thing we need is those parasites using up shipboard resources.

[Taxloss]

5. Try becoming a senator, governor or Preisdent.

Atheists cannot in the USA.

[MindPilot]

8. The constitutions of seven states explicitly forbid

non-believers from holding public office. In at least one state an atheist can't even be a witness in court. In one of them--Texas IIRC--you must also believe in a system of rewards and punishment in the afterlife.

[NMMNG]

10. Telling us we will burn in hell for one

While we don't believe in hell so the threat of going there causes us no anxiety, having people ranting and even screaming obscenities at us because we simply tell them "no thank you" when they want to proselytise to us can get pretty exasperating.

Claiming that we are engaging in "anti-christian bigotry" for asking them not to ram their religion down our throats. Is a person engaging in "anti-salesperson bigotry" because they said they aren't interested in that sofa he began pushing on them the minute they walked into the store? No? What if they had to say "no" three times because he kept pressing them--are they then guilty of it? After all, the salesperson's employee manual says it is his job to do whatever he can to make a sale. And a good employee always obeys his manual.

Having rules, written or unwritten, that do not allow atheists to hold public office. Try and run for office without blathering about how much of a role God plays in your life.

Demanding that we respect their right to profess their faith in public, but refusing to allow us to profess our lack of faith in the same manner. Do so and you will be called vicious names, be accused of anti-christian bigotry, etc.

[Lars39]

13. Families all over are being torn apart by the fundies'

insistence that everyone have the same beliefs.