I'm curious

[GOPFighter]

C'tians believe that people are inherently bad from birth. Many people, even those who aren't religious, believe this also.

I think that people are born with a survival instinct, and that instinct causes people to seek the approval of, first, our parents, and later our peers and society. The best way to earn approval is to be "good" (whatever "good" means in that society). So I believe that people are inherently good.

What do you think?

[CarbonDate]

1. People are born hungry.

From there, we are taught by our parents and teachers and so forth that we should look out for the best interests of the whole or of ourselves. Those who are taught to look out for #1 are "bad", those who are taught to look out for each other are "good".

To over-simplify a bit.

[arwalden]

2. I'm Fascinated With Tne Notion That Infants Who Die...

... without being baptized or before accepting Christ, will burn in hell!

[eek MD]

3. That "Original Sin" concept always confused the heck out of me too.

In our "sunday school" class growing up, the teacher was discussing this with us. She said, If a person has never been baptized, they will never make it to heaven. So if a person is dying, and no priest is around, anyone can baptize in an emergency and that you're supposed to look around for some water.

Me being in 2nd grade (and being quite the troublemaker) asked if that meant it was ok to dunk an old person's head into the toilet if they're dying. The teacher didn't like the question very much. :)

Personally, I think that humans are born without any "goodness" or "evilness" in them. We become "good" or "evil" by our own decisions, or by pressure from others.

[Bill McBlueState]

4. so a priest isn't necessary

I wonder if the magical potion H2O is also unnecessary, then. Could a layman baptize a dying infant with chocolate sauce? I mean, it does *contain* some amount of water.

Mmm, chocolate.

[reprobate]

5. So by that logic, the infant that dies at birth is doomed?

[progressoid]

6. I remember that concept coming up in Sunday school too.

The "teacher" made some remark that god isn't so cruel as to punish an innocent child. Then all the good little 3rd graders noded in agreement and went on coloring.

I was thinking that was a pretty big loop hole and that god should be a little more clear about who burns and who doesn't. Didn't seem to make much sense to me...then I went back to coloring.

[lazarus]

7. it makes sense, in a way

Since we're all born atheist, and Xians think atheists are bad, well, QED. :evilgrin:

[More Than A Feeling]

8. It's not as simple as "inherently bad" for Christians, not always

some do believe that humans are completely depraved.

Others (myself among them) believe that human nature is not what it once was (garden of eden myth) but that there is both limitless potential to do good in this world, and that each act of good can have evil consequences. Furthermore, by virtue of being relative, limited, and finite,and refusing to accept that, humans cannot reach that original state without some kind of help. (This is idea of original sin) This is my viewpoint.

The trick is to accept the finite, limited state of affairs, and stop worrying about yourself, and focus on doing as much good as you can for others who are not you, rather than making them fodder for your attempts at escaping your own insecurity. (This is, in part, the idea of judgment. Even though we can never reach perfection, we are still held accountable for it, so that we never stop trying.) At the same time, accept that you will never measure up to the ideal, and don't worry about that either. (Speaking of 'you' in a general sense, not specifically you, GOPFighter)

Now, could you honestly look at what I have written, and sum it up as "human beings are inherently bad"?

[GOPFighter]

9. You have to understand I was raised in a fundy Baptist church

Everything was black and white, good and evil. Man was conceived and born in sin. Man, on his/her own is inherently bad (sinful) and only through Christ can that sin be forgiven.

That seems to be pretty much the norm for the c'tains I've met.

The trouble with the terms good and evil is that they are hard to define and vary from culture to culture. Going naked in public in our culture is bad, going naked in other cultures is the norm. In fact their nakedness alone was considered proof by early missionaries that those societies were depraved and in need of a good dose of their god.

[CarbonDate]

11. Which is ironic....

...when you consider that in their creation myth the fact that Adam & Eve were wearing clothing was the first clue to the creator that something was amiss.

[Book Lover]

12. I don't understand

what you mean by "human nature is not what it once was (garden of eden myth)" Can you explain?

[A HERETIC I AM]

10. People arent inherently good or evil. They're inherently Human

and tend to reflect the environment in which they are brought up in. To insist humans are inherently evil is little more than a ploy designed to instill fear and force folks into a particular belief system.

"You are bad and I (The religious leader) am the one that has the secret to change that"

It is horseshit, pure and simple.