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Anyone else honestly think Star Trek just isn't that good?

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Caution Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-30-04 03:01 PM
Original message
Anyone else honestly think Star Trek just isn't that good?
I watch it since there is a major dearth of quality SciFi on TV right now, but man Enterprise, Voyager, and DS9 all sucked in my opinion. TNG was just OK (though it had some shining moments), the movies were pretty much hit or miss and the first series is now so dated that the vast majority of the episodes are simply laughable (space seed, trouble with tribbles, the one with the half-white, half-black guys still stand up, but not many others).

I just don't understand the continuing fascination with this once good but now in steep-decline franchise.

Are there any truly good sci-fi shows out there that I'm just missing?

(and please dont say stargate sg-1 or atlantis...i can watch them but only barely).
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Endangered Specie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-30-04 03:09 PM
Response to Original message
1. Um, no.
is this flamebait?
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Caution Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-30-04 03:26 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. no it isn't
I'm a huge scifi fan and I personally think that Star Trek is overall lousy with a few moments of really decent story-telling occasionally popping up.

Obviously much of this forum is dominated by Star Trek which surprised me. I would have thought that after the absolute travesty that Enterprise became, the joke that Voyager was and the just 7 years of crap that DS9 was that Star Trek would finally be seeing the end of its life.

Considering this is a forum primarily dedicated to politics, I didn't think people would be too thin skinned about it. My intention was not to offend but rather to see if the forum was worth continuing in for me or if it was going to be completely and totally dominated by Trekkers.

Maybe a better way would have been to suggest a Star Trek Group to mitigate the overall affect on the main SciFi group.
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Endangered Specie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-30-04 03:47 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. Ive been of the opinion that DS9 was the best of the series...
Voyager was ok, and Enterprise is getting half decent.

and the truth of the matter is Trek is really the only sci-fi I like.

keep in mind this group I originally proposed as being a Star Trek group.
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Fleurs du Mal Donating Member (511 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-30-04 03:15 PM
Response to Original message
2. I agree w/ everything but TNG
I thought TNG was class but everything since I have found...lacking.
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phantom power Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-30-04 03:21 PM
Response to Original message
3. I think it's hard to make a good scifi TV show. The reason is...
that good sci-fi comes out of interesting ideas. Really, it's an impossible task to come up with truly interesting ideas, episode after espisode, season after season.

So, you end up with what you described: a few gems in a sea of mediocrity.

On the other hand, the same logic applies to pretty much any TV show. Theodore Sturgeon understood all this years ago: "90% of science fiction is crap. But then, 90% of everything is crap."
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Metatron Donating Member (877 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-30-04 04:00 PM
Response to Original message
6. I've never been a fan of any Star Trek series
and I can enjoy most crap SciFi shows. Star Trek just doesn't do it for me. My mom and brother would heartily disagree with my opinion, though. I strongly recommend the Firefly DVD series. It was great.
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DrWeird Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-30-04 07:58 PM
Response to Original message
7. It's terrible.
Sci-fi is supposed to be intelligent. Witty. Original. Star Trek is almost slowly responsible for dumbing down the whole genre. It's just a soap opera with big tits and laser blasters and bad dialogue.

I haven't seen any good sci-fi shows in years. Atlantis and what they now call Stargate sg-1 are unwatchable. Although for several seasons Stargate Sg-1 had a run of very well written episodes.

I'm hoping the new Battlestar Galactica will fill the void. The pilot had potential.
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DavidDvorkin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-30-04 09:08 PM
Response to Original message
8. Only TOS was Star Trek
All the subsequent shows have been mediocre to bad.
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robbedvoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-02-04 09:10 PM
Response to Reply #8
13. Amen.
Then came Babylon 5. And Farscape.
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Khephra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-30-04 09:23 PM
Response to Original message
9. I go back and forth
Every time I start thinking that Trek sucks in comparison to B5 I somehow manage to catch one of Trek's groundbreaking episodes and change my mind.

Still...I think it needs a new show runner BADLY. Either that or it needs to be retired for about 5-10 years.
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Ravenseye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-01-04 07:48 AM
Response to Original message
10. What Past Shows Do You Consider Quality?
I ask about what you consider quality from past shows or series. There are so many, mostly bad shows, but some must have grabbed you.

Part of it is taste. I know a ton of people who LOVED Farscape, but I couldn't stand the muppets. For some reason it just felt like a good sci-fi show with Fraggle Rock mixed in. I know I'm in the minority there but eh.

How bout Babylon 5? I know people who loved that one. I never really got into it, so it didn't really seem like anything to me. It was a show that seemed so tied in to years of plot devices that I couldn't follow it. Maybe if I had a DVR back then I could have seen every episode and liked it but who knows.

Personally as far as TOS, I loved watching the shows on reruns, and was addicted to TNG when it came out. I got my sister hooked as well. We'd come home from school and I'd watch TNG. At first the deal was that she could watch the soap opera she taped without me complaining, but she had to sit through TNG first because of the time slot.

DS9 never grabbed me, but Kira annoyed the hell out of me, and by the time it seemed to get good it had lost me.

Voyager lost me in the first season, but grabbed me back by the end. 7 of 9 helped, but didn't keep me, but I watched most of the last couple of seasons. Again a DVR would have helped. Loved the concept though.

Enterprise. I taped them at first, and then by mid second season wasn't watching anymore. Tried again for the Xindi season, but again...no DVR hurt, and I drifted. Came back the begining of this season and I'm freaking loving it. The first 2 story arc was a little weak but hopefully it'll get the whole 'Temporal Cold War' thing gone...Then a vulcan wedding, Dr Soong and Genetic Augments ala Khan with Klingons and Orion Dancing Girls, and now Vulcan spirituality and glimpses at Surak and the past of Vulcan with some Andorians coming up into the mix. Supposedly then a couple one offs and a new arc involving a possible Tellarite/Andorian conflict. I'm psyched.

I used to love SG-1 but it's gone downhill. Enterprise is my favorite Sci-fi on tv right now.
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Forkboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-01-04 02:07 PM
Response to Original message
11. I'm with ya Caution
Of course I liked Lexx so my opinion might be a little shaky :)
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Chovexani Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-02-04 03:36 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. OMG I found you!
The dude that watches Lexx! :P

This is like the time I met the Andromeda fan at a sci-fi memorabilia sale. :crazy:
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Forkboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-06-04 01:37 AM
Response to Reply #12
17. LMFAO
ouch! :)
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robbedvoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-02-04 09:12 PM
Response to Reply #11
14. I also liked Lexx. Good fun. head and shoulders above the crap on
Sci-Fi these days. And I don't even feel guilty admitting it.
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HawkerHurricane Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-04-04 04:01 PM
Response to Original message
15. Star Trek is/was the best Science Fiction on television...
which says more about what kind of crap science fiction is on television than how high the quality of Star Trek is/was.

Television Science Fiction is awful. Trek is the best of it.
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Rowdyboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-05-04 09:11 PM
Response to Original message
16. In 1968/69 the original series captured my attention as a 15 year old
Edited on Sun Dec-05-04 09:11 PM by Rowdyboy
I thoroughly enjoyed TNG and DS9 as an adult. Sorry you find them worthless.

I must say, its your loss.
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FM Arouet666 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-07-04 03:47 AM
Response to Original message
18. If not Star Trek then What?
Star Trek is not perfect. All Sci Fi has to balance a trifecta of possible plot lines, Science fiction, science fantasy and science opera. Science fiction generally remains true to modern science, science fantasy does not, and science opera plays more with character plot lines, which happen to exist in a science-minded setting.

ST TNG was more science fiction and DS9 was more a combination of science fiction and opera. All Star Trek has a strong component of fantasy, but it is consistent within the Star Trek universe.

As for "once good," I like ST TOS, but it is extremely dated. The modern series, ST TNG, DS9 and enterprise are all very balanced with regard to the three lines I have mentioned. As for Voyager, I have never seen an episode to I cannot comment.

Sci Fi series must play this balance. I agree, episodes which deal with real scientific theories are more interesting but it is hard to maintain a series on this basis. Character development and how characters react to modern type issues becomes an integral part of series development.

If you are not a Trek fan, then what televised Sci Fi outlet do you appreciate?
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Hong Kong Cavalier Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-07-04 11:54 AM
Response to Original message
19. The major problem I've always had with Star Trek is...
that the series is more about the stars than it is about the story. The characters rarely change from season to season (although the actors' comfort with the characters markedly improves with each season) and the writers and producers are so damn resistant to change anything that would threaten the Trek dynamic.

After three series totalling nearly twenty years of history of the Federation, I can look at ST:Nemesis and see pretty much the same Federation as there was during "Encounter at Farpoint". The only major difference is the characters are a little bit older, and the ships look a little bit new.

The technobabble got way out of hand during the newest incarnations of Trek, too. When the writers lack the know-how to realize that the surface of a planet simply cannot be "negative six kelvin" (See TNG's "The Royale") there's something wrong. I know that instance is a nitpick, but far too many of the episodes in TNG and Voyager relied on technical solutions far too often. Perhaps that's why DS9 was better; they didn't rely on the technical rescue as often.

Star Trek has shown some major signs of brilliance. TNG's "The Best of Both Worlds, Part 1" was their finest hour. From the first screenshot of the Borg Cube hurtling towards the Enterprise with Picard saying "Send a coded message to Starfleet. We have engaged the Borg" to the final line of the episode, when Riker tells Worf to open fire on his former captain...that gave me chills. I was actually thinking that they'd actually lose one or two of the main characters. No such luck. After that, I didn't expect any major changes to TNG, and I was right. I grew disillusioned with TNG at that point, I must admit.

To me, good Science Fiction must be like any story. I have to care about the characters. I have to wonder if they'll survive the current dilema they're in. I have to cheer at their triumphs and cry at their lossess. I want consistency from episode to episode, and season to season. I'd like longer stories that are seeded throughout the series to reward me for watching from a long time ago. Episodic series get kind of boring after a while. And devoting an entire year to a single story arc was kind of contrived, considering the producers of Enterprise trumpeted it all the time: Look! See? We're being innovative. (Completely ignoring the fact that another series did long story arcs much more effectively.)

DS9 showed the most promise of all the new Treks. They tried to make it "grittier" (although the station looked as clean as a starship) and succeded on several levels. Being on the "frontier" of the Federation, there should have been a little more intrigue than what existed on that station. The premise for Voyager was...interesting, but I found it odd that after 7 years away from any spacedock, the ship looked as nice as it did in the pilot episode. (Again, there's that not wanting to change the status quo.) And Enterprise introducted too many new elements, like the Suliban that were not part of the Star Trek timeline. Only after three years (and who the heck were the Xindi? They were never mentioned in any of the series that chronologically follow Enterprise) did the writers decide to focus on things that actually were a part of Trek history. Too little, too late, I say. They should have been doing this from the beginning. (And don't get me started on that Borg episode. Completely nullified what Guinan told Picard after they met them in TNG)

That's why I'm disappointed with Trek. I've seen good sci-fi on TV, and right now, Trek isn't it.
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Walt Starr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-07-04 08:48 PM
Response to Original message
20. I lost interest by Season 3 of DS9
I tried to get into Voyager, lost interest by episode 3. Tried to get into Enterprise, lost interest at the second episode.
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