Carnivale-last show

[drdon326]

the greatest show EVER.

[drdon326]

1. Sophies got the Boon !?

[NashVegas]

2. I Don't Think So

But she's got something.

Looks like she now has Ben's gift of healin.'

ARRRRRRRHHHH!

[Mabus]

8. Justin was the Usher

That's what he was called. His role may have been to usher in the omega/Sophie much like John the Baptist helped lead the way for Jesus. I think that's why Justin had Sophie squirreled away for her own protection. It also explains why Appy tried to kill Sophie. It was to prevent her from carrying out her destiny and the only other person who was even aware of what Sophie really was was Lodz.

If Sophie is the Omega, does this mean she is the last avatar to be reincarnated for this round of existence? If Sophie is in the Omega then I think it has a double meaning, ie, she is the last avatar for this round and she is where she needs to be (a prophet in her house). This goes back to my speculation about her becoming the Amiee Semple McPherson of the time. That is, a powerful evangelist in her own right.

Disclaimer: I'm not a Christian, wasn't raised a Christian and am still learning what Christianity is (as opposed to what the extremists do) so I'm not as familiar with many of the intricacies of the religion as those who grew up in a church or with church teachings.

[imenja]

22. well you very informed on Carnivale theology

you've got me convinced.

[trotsky]

3. Sofie appears to be a merger of the CoL/CoD.

Ben is fucked. I knew I was going to be disappointed with HOWEVER the finale played out, but man, this is gonna bug me for a long, long time.

[derby378]

4. CoL/CoD?

Do you mean "child of light/child of darkness?"

All I remember is a statement by Lodz from beyond the grave - Sophie is the Omega.

[trotsky]

5. Yep.

But I thought Lodz had said (written) "Sophie is IN the Omega." ???

[Mabus]

7. It depends on where you look

On the mirror, during the episode, it said "Sophie is the Omega" in the synoposis for that week it said "Sophie is in the Omega." http://www.hbo.com/carnivale/episode/season2/episode21.shtml

[trotsky]

12. Dang, now I know why I was confused.

Watching the episode, I too thought it just said she IS the Omega. But when I saw the synopsis, I figured I must have missed the "in."

If she IS the Omega, then maybe the Omega is the LAST Avatar - a merger of Light and Dark, one who will need to choose which she wants to be. For now, she's choosing Dark. It's obviously going to be a massive inner struggle for her.

[robbedvoter]

13. There was no "in" in the actual episode. I go for promo typo

in fact, most agreed.

[imenja]

23. no, synopsis has to be a typo

the mirror has greater authority

[liberalnurse]

32. It was a typo error

at the HBO site....per DK......Sophie is the Omega.

[Toucano]

6. Amazing episode

I can never really tell where this show is going to go.

I love that!

I never expected Jones to be killed. I will really miss him.

I guess Ben lost his dagger unless Sampson or someone thought to take it out of Alexi.

I wish the next season was already in the can!

[Kire]

19. Ben's dagger was special?

I missed that part.

[Toucano]

24. When Ben killed management

the dagger became infused with his blue blood.

Ben concluded that management had set him up with attacking Scudder to force Ben to kill him.

I got the impression that management knew he had to be killed by Ben in order to create the weapon that could defeat the Usher.

Maybe I'm wrong though.

[Mabus]

9. Some of my thoughts on the season finale

Was the figure in the shard that Ben saw pass behind him Appy's apparition?

I know, I'm reading too much into stuff. but I've read that the shadow at the bottom of the window at the end of Outside New Caanan was an optical anomoly but after seeing this episode it was like it was planned. iirc the shadow was on Justin's side of the window and started at the bottom (Justin's loins) and appeared to grow as the camera pulled away. This episode Appy was in the window. All I could think of was that the weird shadow was almost like the beginning of Appy's apparition.

I also liked the twist of Sophie being the antichrist figure. It is a woman, not a man, as most expected, to be the evil one.

Has anyone else watched the "behind the scenes" concerning the opening credits? It is well worth it. http://www.hbo.com/carnivale/behind/credits/index.html

Finally, why has Ruthie been silent about her "Lodz infestation?" She hasn't confided her visitations by him to Ben or to Samson/Management to my knowledge. I know Ruthie told Sophie that she was seeing Appy around camp. She also told Sophie was seeing others. Shouldn't she have said something to somebody else by now? Shouldn't she at least mention the weird message on the mirror? Since Ruthie was resurrected by Ben, Ruthie has confided in Sophie and Ruthie shares her body with Lodz (once in a while) will Ruthie's role be more important next season since she is a sort of nexus? Not to mention that she was Scudder's lover for a while and Scudder and Lodz were partners. Perhaps, when things calm down and she finds out that Sophie was at the camp, she will start talking.

[trotsky]

11. Lodz' role is very confusing.

It was his bear that mauled Management. Lodz, as you note, toured with Scudder. But then Scudder took Lodz' sight in exchange for some powers, and Lodz began working for Management.

Was Lodz ordered to kill Ruthie by Management, to set up the "test" for Ben? Is Lodz going to side with Justin/Sofie, or will he renew his allegiance with "Management" (Ben)?

[robbedvoter]

14. Lodz is only on Lodz side - he appears amoral.

He is furious with both Ben for killing him, and Scudder for blinding him. So, the logical place for him would be Sophie. Unless it turns out she is more dangerous to him then Ben, in which case Lods would have no compunction to do a roundabout.

[trotsky]

10. Anyone else sad that Norman gets healed only to be killed by Justin?

I was really hoping Ben healing Norman was going to help. Ralph Waite was a great actor on the series, and I wanted his character to stick around.

[drdon326]

15. Someone in the hbo board claimed....

that BJ , when he was going after Ben, killed all the people ben healed including Norman.

AT FIRST, i really enjoyed the episode but the more unanswered questions that were left hanging such as...

Whats up with sophie?
Is BJ alive?
What is iris?
Is jonsy dead?
Whats with the expanding cornfield?

the more angry i got.

I mean shit, i waited 2 seasons for some "absolutes" and no one can even say for sure if BJ is dead?....even after Ben pluged that dagger EXACTLY where he was supposed to...and we dont even know if HES DEAD ?!?!

I feel cheated.

[Toucano]

16. I thought he might have targeted the healed

but I wasn't sure.

I dont' think that cornfield was expanding, however. It was dying or contracting because Sophie was healing Justin. It happened in season 1 when Ben healed a crippled child.

I too am concerned about Jonsy being shot, but as I thought about it today, he clearly wasn't shot it the head so maybe he has a chance.

I bet we'll find out that Ben was supposed to have beheaded Justin, but he was too weak from his injury to complete the job.

The dagger was broken, so maybe that has something to do with Justin's survival.

Season 2 had a lot more action and a better tempo than season one. I'm very pleased because I was almost going to give up on the show this year.

[Kire]

21. If he targeted the healed, then...

...does that mean he's taking backthe powers that Ben gave to them? They were his in the first place.

[Toucano]

25. That seems plausible.

Justin was sort of reclaiming the life force Ben had transferred from Justin to the infirm.

I have to watch it again to confirm, but I remember the woman who had TB appeared to be the one Justin hooked in the back.

[trotsky]

17. Interesting.

Yeah, I feel the same way you do. It's enough of a cliffhanger to wonder what Sofie is going to do, and all those other questions you mentioned - why did we go through that whole season, setting up the confrontation, watching Ben seemingly win, to now have to sit back and wonder, well, was anything accomplished?

I guess I didn't pay enough attention to see if the same people Ben healed were the ones BJ killed. I'll have to OnDemand it this week and watch more closely.

[NashVegas]

18. Well

If there's going to be a 3rd season, I can't imagine it w/out BJ, so I'd assume Sophie was healing him if for no other reason than that.

And it was an Easter show, after all.

Still, I can't help but wonder what an arisen Justin's reputation is going to be, as there were witnesses to his behavior in the tent.

[imenja]

27. Easter and the Resurrection

The Christ imagery was obvious: Ben as a scarecrow on a post that looked like a cross. When the carneys found Ben collapsed over Justin's body, they carried him away, arms stretched out, in another crucifixion pose.

Yet who was resurrected on Sunday? Justin. He died and evidently rose from the dead.

It seems to me there is a great confusion, intentionally so, between good and evil in this series. Management is meant to be good but behaved in far from holy ways. Scudder was the child of dark, yet lacked the requisite malice required to fulfill his mission.

Now Sophie, sired from evil, is suddenly bestowed with the powers of healing that she then uses to resurrect evil. She likely carries Ben's child in her womb. She is the Omega. Does that mean she will acquire combined powers of good and evil, and the final battle will be carried out by her alone?

So it's all confusing but fascinating. I don't worry about having unanswered questions, though it's fun to think about what those answers might be. There WILL be more seasons, and we'll see a far more dramatic battle than we saw on Sunday. If Management's predictions hold, someone will get control of the atomic bomb.

[Kire]

20. "absolutes"?

you never studied postmodernism, did you?

:sarcasm:

[imenja]

28. Kire's right, this isn't a show for absolutes

there is a blurring between good and evil, and I believe that is intentional and a central part of the theme the writer wants to convey. Even if my theory is off base, I doubt you will ever find absolutes in this series, even after two more seasons, though surely we will know more.

[imenja]

29. self deleted

misplaced

[liberalnurse]

33. It was a battle.....

Not every battle ends the war. DK has a total of 6 seasons of material which will take it up to 1945....the Trinity.

TV has been a cookie cutter industry run by the advertizers....Cable Networks like HBO are subscription driven. There is a difference in program quality. We as traditional TV viewers have accepted the cookie cutter, quick fix style for way too long. You need to get out of the mold and out of the box....Come on...you can do it.

[liberalnurse]

34. He also gave Ben the opportunity to

get out of the tent. He was brave and sacrificed himself for Ben....

[drdon326]

26. *IF* there is a 3rd season, figure 1 to 1-1/2 years...

Sophies baby would probably be born by then.lol

[imenja]

30. This is YOUR house

What are your theories on what this might mean? A prophet in her house. What can house mean in this context? I thought of astrological houses, as if Sophie's evil apparition was telling her this was her moment. Then I thought of the House of Usher, as in Edgar Allen Poe's "The Fall of the House of Usher." I found this on Wikipedia: " L. Sprague de Camp, in his Lovecraft: A Biography , wrote that "ccording to the late Thomas O. Mabbott, Lovecraft, in 'Supernatural Horror,' solved a problem in the interpretation of Poe" by arguing that "Roderick Usher, his sister Madeleine, and the house all shared one common soul". http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Fall_of_the_House_of_U...


"Usher, his sister and the House all shared one common soul." I found this interesting. Justin, the Usher, Iris, the sister, and Sophie's house?

Who or what grows in Sophie's womb? Ben's child, yes. But will be be good, evil, or both? This ambiguity brought to mind William Butler Yeats' poem "The Second Coming," that I posted in a separate thread in the TV chat group. I find it fascinating in the context of this show.

[liberalnurse]

31. I have been hanging out

at the Yahoo HBO Carnivale' board. Daniel Knauf posts there daily! There has been tremendous feedback! I couldn't begin to get it all down here.

Dan gives great support for season three. Clancy Brown sent Beth a detailed email too which analyzed the HBO thinking processed. That was posted on yet another board, the Baggage Trailer.

[imenja]

35. link?

[liberalnurse]

36. Here ya go.....

On the Yahoo Board...Daniel Knauf goes by/ Daniel Knauf
fboffo......and then there is a very insightful poster, Beth Blighton who goes by skippertoo......

Beth has the CarnyCon Caht where Clancy, Nick, Clea Tim, Cynthia all have been in the chat! Last Sunday, they all chimed in! The Chat is a scheduled chat which you have to check in to see when it will happen.


CarnyCon....
http://www.mooncross.net/carnivale/midway.html


Yahoo Group....(Dan and Beth post their daily.)

http://tv.groups.yahoo.com/group/CarnivaleHBO/


Then there is the Baggage Trailor......


http://s6.invisionfree.com/The_Baggage_Trailer/index.php?


Here is Clancy's email to Beth....with permission by Clancy...

Beth Blighton <skippery_boo@...> wrote:Hey there,

Got a post from Clancy that he gave me permission to share here. It's
got some pretty amazing insights on a subject a lot of people have been
talking about. (The following is his full post.)

Hope everyone has a safe & happy Easter.

Enjoy the post...
-- Beth

********************

Re: (MOD) RE Carnivale Creator heads to Showtime

Dear Beth:

(I'd post this but I don't want my E-mail address out there so please
pass any portion of this note along to the fans on the Yahoo group
whenever you see fit)

You've hit the nail on the head yet again! There is absolutely nothing
to read into the recent press releases about Dan and Tracy developing a
show for Showtime except that SOMEONE (read: Showtime or some cranky
entertainment beat writer) wanted to try to knock some of the luster off
of HBO's golden tower.

There are many reasons not to worry but the first and foremost is -
HOWARD KLEIN!

Howard executive produces at least three shows for different networks
that I know of and is currently paired with CARNIVALE writer William
Schmidt to develop a fourth for none other than HBO! Now I'll grant you
Howard is not the "Creator" of CARNIVALE or any of the other shows he
Exec Produces nor does he write or direct but he is deeply involved in
all of them AND finds
time to operate a top talent management company named 3 Arts (perhaps
you've seen the logo in the end credits of OUR show). Certainly a mind as
creative and facile as Dan's could manage to run an established show like
CARNIVALE as well as develop a few more ideas.

The second reason (almost as obvious as the first) is - HOWARD KLEIN
AGAIN!

Tracy Torme is one of Howard's clients (and an old friend). Howard, and
by logical extension HBO, surely knew of Dan and Tracy shopping their
ideas around (although I'll bet HBO was surprised they landed at
Showtime!). Howard is the guy with the intimate relationships and
communication with HBO. To think this was somehow unexpected is absurd.
If HBO wanted to wrap either Dan or Tracy up exclusively, they could
have; but that's not the way it happens in TV. It's WAY too expensive to
pay someone NOT to play in another sandbox. Plus DK is very sought after
these days. By the time HBO makes up their mind about a third season, I
would expect DK to have at least three more development deals in place
all over town!

The question then becomes will we have a third season and; if so, will
HBO seek to sign Dan up again? My feeling is, "Yes and Yes!"

To the first part of the question - CARNIVALE is not finished. We know
that the final event in our story doesn't occur for another 10 or 11
years and we don't flash forward that far during the finale of season 2.
HBO wouldn't allow the story to end abruptly, it's not their style and
not their reputation. Caroline Strauss and Miranda Heller are smart
cookies who have made their names by taking chances on stories and
subjects and styles that have re-defined series television. And Chris
Albrecht, as the main architect of ALL of it, is not suddenly going to
start behaving like the middle managers that run some of the competition.
HIS vision of HBO as a place where creators are afforded the freedom to
pursue THEIR vision is what keeps HBO on top. Because of that, HBO enjoys
the preeminent place in Hollywood's creative community. It is the FIRST
place people approach with their BEST ideas.

To the second part of the question - read the last half of the above
paragraph. Dan loves CARNIVALE and HBO first. He is not discontent nor is
he a malcontent. I've asked him directly if he would sign on again. He
would in a heart-beat. But these are delicate issues in the beginning;
fraught with ego, strategy, and, ... well... ego. Who says what when
takes up a lot of brain-time in high places. Protocols real and imaginary
are expected to be ignored or honored depending on the phase of the moon
and violations are both admired and despised. Blah blah blah blah....

The truth is it is DK's story. He's the "creator" that is so esteemed by
the HBO model. There is no reason not to expect he will be back. Howard
can do a lot of useful things, but even Howard knows he's not a
story-teller. Howard knows that without Dan, this story will fall flat.
There are too many
disparate strands that support the grand design. There is too much
specialized detail that focus the audience in unexpected and compelling
ways. The characters, time, and setting are too specific to be entrusted
to a second-team back-up. I know it, the writers know it, Howard knows
it, Dan knows it, and HBO knows it. If there is any reason not to allow
Dan to finish telling his tale, I am unaware of it. I must conclude he
will not be allowed to be "the one that got away." (Especially to
Showtime)

I completely understand and empathize with some of the panic posters.
I've suffered through baffling decisions by suits. I don't trust 'em
either. Their nervousness about the future of CARNIVALE is informed and
grounded by experience. All I ask is that you give HBO the benefit of the
doubt. Let
your skepticism be informed and eased by Albrecht's track record. Since
he took the reigns at HBO, the rules have changed. Why would CARNIVALE
suddenly inspire the iconoclasts at HBO to behave like sheep. No, they
are a different breed. And they are tenacious. They don't flail and whine
and look for escape hatches. They look you in the eye and green light
shows like
DEADWOOD, BIG LOVE, UNSCRIPTED, K STREET, SOPRANOS, SIX FEET UNDER, and
on and on.... These folks are horses of a different color. NOT birds of a
feather.

Now to the one sad truth, and the only part of your post that is less
than 100% true. Ben and Justin (Nick and I) are not essential going
forward. Never were. Actors (and sadly the characters they play) hardly
ever are. There are exceptions: Tony Soprano, Carrie Bradshaw, SpongeBob
Squarepants, etc. But ours is an ensemble that serves the story and story
is the star. Ben & Justin could continue but they just as well could not.
There are plenty of characters to carry on the continuity of theme and
narrative (most obviously - Samson). I wish this weren't true, but I have
to be honest...I would still be enthralled with this show even if I
weren't on it - perhaps moreso. Sorry but that's the reality.

Now having said that, there is only one person I would trust to make such
a transition correctly - Dan Knauf. Any other way would smell too much
like a "purge". So the only real indispensable "star" of this show is the
"creator" - Mr. Daniel Knauf. As Milch is to DEADWOOD and Ball is to SIX
FEET UNDER so too is Knauf to CARNIVALE.

So do not despair, fellow Carnys and Knauf-tic faithful. Let the
priesthood at HBO do what they will in their own time. They are wise and
bold and committed. They will make the right choice. It is self-evident.
I am sure that we will continue to tell the story and "...show you
things. Wonderful,
terrible things...." (those 5 emmys right out of the gate didn't hurt
either. SOPRANOS didn't win that many their first season!)

Courage!

Regards - Clancy

[imenja]

37. awesome!

Thanks so much!

ps. What do you think about the poem I posted as reflective of Carnivale? Yeats'"Second Coming"? I thought it captured well the ambiguity of good and evil and uncertainty over what may be in Sophie's womb.

[liberalnurse]

38. Here is what Daniel Knauf said to us

just before the show aired.....


From: "Daniel Knauf" <fboffo@...>
Date: Sun Mar 27, 2005 1:52 pm
Subject: Season Finale fboffo
Offline
Send Email

I wish I could pop into the Chow-Tent tonight--or even lurk--to see
all your reactions. But I'm watching the show with family and a few
friends at my brother's house, so I probably won't be able to get to a computer.

Guess I'll have to settle for a transcript.

Strap in. It's gonna be a ride. I just wish I could watch every
single one of you as you watch the show. Now *that* would be a gas.

We should all tip our hats to HBO for being brave enough to air this
crazy thing. They've taken an incredible risk--on me as well as on
Carnivale, despite the cost, the hassle and a lot of really snarky
press.

And despite all the kind words recently thrown in my direction, I
think that big props should be given to Carolyn Strauss. She has been
passionate about the show since the beginning, and what you're
watching wouldn't be possible without her intelligence, her drive and
her impeccable taste. Believe me, she's saved me from my own worst
creative instincts more often than I'd ever care to admit.

As far as the recent press goes, it's all just a cheap "angle." The
only thing critics anjoy more than building reputations is tearing
them down. As my father once said, you can always tell who's a
trailblazer by the number of arrows in his back.

So when the finale ends, after you've picked your jaw off the floor,
use it to frame two words: "Thanks, Carolyn." I know I will.

D.

[liberalnurse]

40. It's open to discussion....

as all poems can be.....I'm poor at the true meaning of most of them. I'm too right brained.......:scared:


Thank you for sharing on the big board. More Carnivale would be nice....

[liberalnurse]

39. Here is a really good

summary by Beth....She is an insightful fan.

--- In [e-mail], Beth Blighton <skippery_boo@j...>
wrote:
> Okay, I said I'd hit the high points in the last one. This one is for
> the finer points...
>
> First off, Justin did not "possess" Sofie. Justin sent Stroud to
> "take care of the girl", i.e. kill her, as soon as he came off his wild
> ferris wheel ride. In fact, when the wounded Ben whispers her name,
> Justin (assuming Stroud has done his work), tells Ben that she's waiting
> for him (in death). These are not the words of a man who is currently
> posessing someone (if that's a power Justin is able to inflict in the
> first place.) He thinks Sofie is dead at Stroud's hands. Which
tells us
> Justin STILL doesn't know what he's dealing with when it comes to young
> Sofie. He still doesn't know she's his daughter, he still doesn't know
> she has her own wicked side, and he sure as heck doesn't know
there's any
> such thing as an Omega running around -- and that she's it!
>
> Neither did Lodz posess Sofie. He's trapped back at the Carnivale,
> wandering as a lost soul, capable only of posessing the body of Ruthie,
> whose life was restored through his own death. Those two are the ones
> who are connected. If Lodz could just jump into any old body he
pleased,
> he'd have been popping into other folks, as well, not leaving cryptic
> lipstick messages via the only body he can inhabit. I mean, if Lodz
> wanted to get it on with Lila "in the manner to which he had become
> accustomed" in life, he could have just posessed the Wild Man of Borneo,
> there. Or maybe Burley, or one of the other men. Which makes me think
> he was stuck using the only body he was capable of posessing -- Ruthie's
> -- to take on his midnight ramble.
>
> Appy is also out of the picture, since Ben "healed" Sofie of the real
> warnings and visions the ghostly Appy (the one who could be seen by the
> resurrected Ruthie), was trying to inflict on her daughter. So after
> Ben's "sexual healing" in the truck, it can be assumed that the Appy
that
> Sofie started to see was actually the voice of the dark side inside
> herself taking the familiar form of Appy. Like Justin attributing the
> whispers of his own dark nature to the voice of God, Sofie has
attributed
> the urgings of her own dark nature to her mother's formerly constant
> mental presence. Which makes for one helluva reveal in the shack when
> "Appy" pulls back her veil, and Sofie realizes the creature haunting her
> is what's within her own dark soul.
>
> As to the knife fight in the cornfield. Justin draws first
blood, but
> when Ben strikes at Justin, he hits Justin's chest in a place that has
> been protected by the tattoos -- a branch. The metallic sound we
hear is
> the knife breaking as if it had hit an actual branch, and the blow is
> deflected and harms him not at all. The only place on Justin's chest
> that apparently IS vulnerable is the crotch of the tree on the Tattoo
> (which may have been forshadowed in Justin's dreams as his own crotch
> being made vulnerable and attacked by a Ben-masked Iris.) It would seem
> the tattoos have a protective quality to them, which is why Belyakov
> tells Ben during the passing of the boon the couplet about where to
> strike the dark heart.
>
> Justin actually seems to show some pity for a moment when he finally
> slashes Ben across the belly and gets to really see his adversary close
> up. He speaks of how young Ben is, and seems to see the sadness in this
> necessary task. He even tells Ben he'll soon be with Sofie (as he
> believes Stroud has already dispatched her), and promises to make Ben's
> death a quick one, in which he will not suffer.
>
> And in that moment of Justin's triumphal inattention, Ben grabs the
> broken blade of the embued trench knife and thrusts it into the
> vulnerable spot on Justin's chest. Down they go, and as Ben crawls over
> and pushes the knife the rest of the way in, the Tree is hit by
lightning
> and bursts into flame. But do we see the tree SPLIT by the lightening?
> No. Do we see the tree burn to ashes? No... So could this be a
> different kind of a sign, one of the "burning bush" variety? Is the
tree
> actually destroyed? Or will a phoenix rise from its flames?
>
> And what of the knife? Knowing Dan Knauf's love of all things pointy
> and sharp, is this trench knife something more than it seems, something
> along the lines of an Excalibur or somesuch? We know that Scudder
wanted
> Ben to have it (possibly to end his OWN life, when the time came.) We
> also know that Granny Scudder tried to lift the blade against Ben and
> strike him down with it -- before it was ever embued with Prophet's
blood
> -- and some kind of power stayed her hand. Was that a test to see
if Ben
> was indeed "The One" who should posess it (kind of a twisted sword
in the
> stone notion?) Would the knife NOT harm Prince Ben? Then perhaps there
> was a little magic in there all on it's own before it ever met
> Management's blue puddle of blood.
>
> And what might it mean, now that Ben has broken that which cannot be
> broken? Was the power of the knife diminished in that breaking? Sure,
> Justin simply picked up a sickle in the barn to do in Scudder. But we
> have no idea whether Scudder ever received his boon or not, and we KNOW
> he surely wasn't the Usher -- Justin has the market cornered on
that. So
> perhaps a regular sickle was up to the job with Scudder or even Ben.
But
> as Talbot-Smith tells Justin, once Ben has his boon, and the trench
knife
> Justin sees in his vision (which parallels the illustration in the
Gospel
> of Matthias), then Ben has the means (the knife) and the knowledge/power
> (the boon) to kill Justin. With that, Ben has the power to kill that
> which has never been -- The Usher.
>
> So I'm thinking that knife was a little something more than just any
> old knife dipped in the right blood. It was there for a reason. It was
> handed down by Scudder, who knew a helluva lot more about this battle
> than either Ben or Justin... or Talbot-Smith, for that matter. It
> "refused" to kill Ben even when Granny Scudder was about to
sacrifice him
> like Isaac. If the knife wasn't special, then why all the backstory
> about it? Why send Ben all the way to Granny & the crazy cousin's
> plantation to pick it up? Why not just grab another sickle out of the
> barn like Justin? Like the hatchet, perhaps any weapon touched by Ben
> might burn Justin's skin. But would it kill him, is the question?
Or is
> there only ONE annointed weapon meant to be carried into this
> generation's battle by Ben? And will it's magic and killing power have
> been diminished because of it's breaking, perhaps leaving one impossible
> breath of life left in his foe?
>
> The next morning the Carnivale troupe recovers the wounded Ben
> (without checking for a pulse on his opponent), and heads out of the New
> Canaan camp before a mob starts to form, leaving two of their missing
> members behind. And we see Justin, left in a bloody blue heap,
> apparently dead.
>
> And if dead was what Justin was really supposed to be, then they
could
> have very easily faded to black on that shot, or on the shot of Ben
> laying up recovering in Management's cubby, and left it at that. THE
> END.
>
> But no, instead they show Sofie finding her fallen father.
Trembling,
> she bends to lay hands on him, and the moment Sofie lays hands on him,
> the corn stalks immediately surrounding them begin to wither, as the
life
> is being drawn out of them. Iris is on the hillside by the house and is
> drawn to watch the spectacle playing itself out below, and we see the
> crops dying OUTWARD from the site of the empty cross, not dying inward
> from the Carnivale wagons pulling away. What is being healed is in the
> field, NOT in the trucks.
>
> Ben can heal himself on an unconscious level, as we've seen with Lodz
> and the burning of Ben's face. Perhaps this injury is more serious and
> will take more out of him, and perhaps there are some injuries (like
> where whole limbs are torn away by largfurry carnivores), where there's
> never a complete recovery. But there's no reason to think Ben is
drawing
> either energy out of the cornfield, or energy THROUGH Sofie -- who he
> believes is dead -- to heal himself.
>
> When Jonesy wondered to Ben what would happen if Sophie was already
> dead, Ben didn't say "God BLESS them all if she is." He said "God HELP
> them all," if that's the case. At first blush, I took that to mean Ben
> would revenge himself on everyone in that valley if Justin had
managed to
> kill her. But I wonder now if what he meant was, with Sofie dead, he
> would abandon every last soul in that valley to their fate -- like the
> citizens of Sodom & Gomorrah? Well, he thinks she's dead, and he thinks
> they're all followers of Justin. So perhaps they have now been
abandoned
> to their fate.
>
> And what might that fate be? Perhaps a field of corn ISN'T enough to
> resurrect a dead or dying Usher. If Justin is dying, not dead, I could
> see the cornfield might be enough. But if he's down to his last
> heartbeat, his last breath, or beyond? Then perhaps the cornfield is
> only the beginning. Could that resurrection keep pouring onward and
> outward, like the angel of death during Passover, killing everything in
> it's path not marked in some way to be spared (like perhaps with a nice
> Knights of Jericho armband or somesuch?) Could it take the lives of
> 17,000 witnesses to Justin's crimes? Could it suck the lives out of
> 17,000 abandoned and condemned followers and merely add their ashes to
> the to the whirlwind of the dustbowl?
>
> Sure, Justin needs an army and supporters... But there are plenty
more
> where those 17,000 came from. And if fire and spoil and ruin have
> overtaken that camp and killed everyone but the most loyal marked
> followers of Justin, wouldn't that put the Carnivale last seen leaving
> the vacinity on the run in more ways than one?
>
> As for Jonesy... Until I see a funeral, he's just "shot" to me.
And I
> don't think Sofie "killed" him to try to bring Justin back to life.
> Jonesy was in her way, and she moved him. Simple as that. But what
will
> become of him, if he survives? Will he be healed by Ben? By Sofie? By
> someone else whose powers we have not seen yet? BTW, there was only one
> gunshot. The second loud bang you hear is Jonesy being thrown back
> against the wall of the shed by the impact, then falling forward. Could
> he survive that? Dunno. All I know is it says in the episode recap on
> HBO that Jonesy is "shot" not "killed." Call it semantics, if you
like.
> But I wonder if Jones will somehow end up in the service of the House of
> Crowe.
>
> I've always seen Jonesy as a "Simon Peter" character, and I've been
> waiting to see if he will "deny" Ben the prerequisite three times before
> the cock crows? If he's being drawn into the Crowe circle, wouldn't he
> be FORCED to deny everything he knows to be true about Ben, everything
> that makes him devoted to the boy? After all, he has SOME information
> about Ben's powers that both Justin & Sofie don't. He may also have
> known where they were headed after their showdown with Justin. It might
> also be fun to watch the "hero" be turned a little bit, and see his
> promise to Libby that he's over Sofie put to the test. But then, that's
> just me. Maybe Stumpy really will find him just a little bit farther up
> the road. It would be nice, just once, if SOMETHING Stumpy said didn't
> turn out to be a big steaming pile of bull-poo.
>
> And for the record, since a bunch of us discussed this in the
CarnyCon
> chat room last night, I DO think Samson talks about his old buddies John
> the Baptist & Jesus like he was there to witness the events. So I DO
> wonder if Samson isn't something along the lines of an angel with a very
> rusty halo, a member of a holy host sent down to observe these battles
> that are waged between light & dark. He certainly has the pragmatic
tone
> of a man who has seen it all, and for whom all the trappings of "wonder"
> have gotten a little old. And if Samson might be something a little
more
> angelic in nature, who else in that Carnivale might be?
>
> My vote is for Gabriel. But I'd be interested in hearing your
> thoughts.
>
> That's all for now, till I think of something else I missed.
>
> On to my third impressions...
> -- Beth