Survivor 22 Ep 14 "Seems Like a No-Brainer"

[lazarus]

Woot! Rob wins!

He really did play a masterful game. Had a target on his back from day one (or should have), but took his chosen F3 to the end and won 8-1 (stupid Ralphe).

The challenges were pretty good tonight. They finally did something on RI that wasn't a left over from Minute To Win It. That looked brutal. I figured it would either be Grant or Andrea winning it. Grant teaches yoga, and athletic young ladies have a real advantage in endurance challenges.

The F5 challenge was made for a lady to win, too (balance), but, from the looks of things, Rob came that close to winning it.

And the giant maze/puzzle challenge was made for Rob; Ashley did an amazing job coming so close to beating him. Haele thinks he was talking about working together to throw Ashley's concentration off.

I thought for sure he was out when he wasn't going to play the HII, then he played it and I was convinced he had saved his ass, then the votes were revealed and it turned out he needn't have. Whew.

Can't believe how bitter Julie was. She got really vicious and personal. I hate it when people forget it's a game (Grant).

So, the two big complaints from fans this season were 1. Redemption Island and 2. bringing back vets to play with newbies. So, of course, in their infinite wisdom, TPTB decide that those two things need to be brought back next season. Oy, vey. They better tweak the hell out of RI, because it just sucked, for reasons I've laid out here before and will again, if anyone's interested.

[murielm99]

1. The outcome was what it should be.

Rob was the best player, and he deserved to win! Yes!

So, Phillip really was a "specialist" and a federal agent. Interesting.

I hate it that they are bringing RI back, too.

And who will the returning players be? I have a feeling they will be Matt and Ressell. I would hate seeing either of them again. I am sick of the God talk. That is not why I watch Survivor. But Matt is popular with the viewers, and could play a good game. Ressell could come back. I despise him, but he is a ratings booster.

This was a good season, in spite of RI.

David's proposal and engagement is odd. I think Carolina was a widely disliked player. Well, if Dave needs to get out of it in the future, he is a lawyer. He surely knows some legal barracudas who could help him out.

I did not mind that Ralph voted for Philite. (Was that how he spelled it this time)? Ralph is an oddball. It is fitting that he did this.

[Phentex]

12. Yes, the proposal seemed out of place...

I barely remember her and he made zero impression on me except for his words at the last tribal. The proposal was a big WHO CARES? moment.

[Phentex]

2. I'd like you to talk about RI again...

It didn't do anything for me. Sorta like exile but with its own challenges and the people didn't come back for challenges. It seemed meaningless once Andrea came back with the numbers against her. So she could have won immunity? But that's the same as always.

How can RI be valuable?

As for last night, fine. I give it to Rob because he was the ONLY one playing. Does that really say much for him...to beat a bunch of idiots? As much as I dislike Russell, it would have been interesting to see if he could have made a dent in Rob's plan had he stayed a little longer.

One thing nobody talked about when they were dissing Rob for not understanding the line between their personal fee fees and the game: they ALL acted like brats when he told them not to eat with the other team or talk to them or sleep near them. THAT was bratty.

[ZombieHorde]

4. Russel would have made the game more fun to watch, but he couldn't ease the minds of his team.

They completely fucked themselves when they threw that challenge.

[dr.strangelove]

14. I will always think that a Zap would have won had they not dogged the one

Even if they voted Russell out when they lost their first challenge, it would not have been that one. Maybe nothing else would have changed, but now they go into the merge with rob needing Matt to come back and them having a far better bargaining position with Matt. We will never know, but I have said for years that throwing a challenge will never pay off, and I don;t think it ever has.

[lazarus]

16. nothing says they would have won that challenge, though

Dave proved to not be the Puzzlemaster he thought he was, and Rob is.

[dr.strangelove]

17. Of course

They might have lost, but this way they guaranteed the loss. Its a game and anything can happen. Its all about maximizing your chances to win the million. They would have lost eventually and then could have ousted Russell. This was a conscious choice to reduce the odds of a victory. Thats a bad decision.

[lazarus]

7. RI

the big problem, to me, is that it does away with Reward Challenges. These offer a couple of things. First, there's a great opportunity for clues to a HII (and those can change the game). Second, it causes artificial divisions in the tribe.

Either the merge tribe is split randomly, or the winner picks people to go on Reward. Either way, Rob's Buddy System is nerfed.

And without the Buddy System, suddenly the minority tribe has a chance to avoid a Pagonging. Maybe not much of a chance, but a chance.

Also, by spending so much time with the losers on RI, we didn't get a chance to get to know those still in the game, so blindsides suddenly didn't mean that much emotionally. We just weren't invested in Grant, for instance, except for the fact that he was so pretty. (He did turn out to be a Bitter Betty, though. Sad.)

We never saw why Rob thought Ashley was such a threat, either. We never saw that Rob had told the ladies and Grant that he had a HII. All things they may have had time to tell us if it weren't for RI.

[Phentex]

11. I forgot about the reward challenges and their role...

except for Mike's lameness in NOT giving Ralph and Matt family time. Yes, that sure paid off.

I do think there was much more they didn't show. It seems impossible that at some point Rob's tribe didn't think about throwing him off.

[romana]

3. Good outcome

I think I probably would have given up on Survivor altogether if Rob hadn't won last night. He never stopped playing the game for a single minute. I absolutely LOVED David's speech to the jury about who should have won. I was thinking the same thing.

Like a lot of you, I hated Redemption Island. It's really just lame, and adds nothing to the game. It seems we are stuck with it for the forseeable future, however.

Natalie was like fingers on a chalkboard to me last night. She's too young, and watching her up there talking about how she represents her generation made me feel embarrassed for her. She could barely articulate herself, and her argument before the jury was lame. That said, I thought Julie was ridiculous with her comments, and I liked her until that. She has no business lecturing people on how to be good daughters and parents, I don't care who she thinks she is. She just came across as so bitter. Grant, too, needs to lighten up. He didn't throw Rob under the bus when he had a chance, he paid the price for it. Grow up, dude.

Philip was coherent as usual. I think that wasn't as much of an act as he tried to suggest it was.

Rob just played this whole thing perfectly, and it was great to watch. Yes, he lucked out by being on Omatepe, but your luck can turn on a dime in Survivor. Had he not herded those sheep so masterfully all season they'd have turned on him. He knew that and devised a strategy to reduce that likelihood as much as he could. He earned that money with a great game.

I think the two returning players next season will be women. Not sure who, though. We better not get any Jesus freaks this time around--I got so sick and tired of hearing that from a couple of people this season, especially Matt. I hope Matt never comes back to this game.

[ZombieHorde]

5. The charismatic cult leader tactic was pretty fun to watch. nt

[ZombieHorde]

6. "I hate it when people forget it's a game (Grant)."

That works both ways. If it is just a game, then doing something that you know is going to hurt another person's feelings is inappropriate.

I don't know if games make betraying people's feelings OK. Maybe they do.

[lazarus]

8. it's a tough line to walk, I guess

I view lying in Survivor to be on a moral equivalency with bluffing in poker.

[ZombieHorde]

9. It is tough. I think when the players develop emotional ties,

the lies become darker.

The "villains" sometimes seem nicer to me than the other players, because they don't usually betray other people's feelings, since so few bond with them.

[Phentex]

10. But if they've watched a season or two...

they should know that 1. There is no such thing as total trust. 2. In the end, it IS a game about outlasting. 3. Odds are good you will be lied to by anyone if not everyone at some point.

I don't know how many contestants try out for the show having never seen it before. But season after season, some yahoo says "I really thought he was my friend! I really trusted him!" Wah wah wah.

It's the "It will never happen to ME" syndrome. Maybe that's what makes the game fascinating.

[ZombieHorde]

13. Does that give you permission to knowingly hurt someone?

Maybe it does.

Survivor is a scoundrel's game. Compassion is a vice, and cruelty is a virtue. Most of the "heroes" are actually "villains."

[dr.strangelove]

18. Its not

a scoundrel's game any more than chess or poker are scoundrel's games. The idea is to bluff, lie or deceive. Its a part of the game. Anything else is just sour grapes. How come the person claiming that honor and integrity are important are never on the winning side. was Julie planning to play differently if the Zaps had won over Matt and ousted Rob at the merge. Would they have been honorable. Its a game, thats it.

[ZombieHorde]

19. "How come the person claiming that honor and integrity are important are never on the winning side."

Because it is a scoundrel's game. If you are going to do something you know will hurt someone you care about, then you need to choose what is more important to you; games/chance to win money or the feelings of those you care about.

I have played a lot of chess, and that situation has never come up. I have seen people get annoyed when they lost, but I have never seen someone get hurt.

If it is just a game, then shouldn't the feelings of those you care be more important? If it is just a game, why hurt people over it?

[dr.strangelove]

20. rationality comes into play

I agree 100% with your comment that if you are going to do something you know will hurt someone you care about, then you need to choose what is more important to you; games/chance to win money or the feelings of those you care about. If you are playing this game, you have clearly made your choice. Deal with that choice. Its not rational to choose to play a game then get hurt when you do not win. Children do this, but adults do not. That is why you have never seen that reaction from a chess game. It just makes no sense to get hurt when you know going in there is a good chance you can lose. The VAST majority of survivor players come out of the game without being hurt. Every season there are a few, usually 2-3 at most, who are hurt by someone's beating them. Its just sour grapes and an irrational response.

As for your last comment, because its just a game, the feelings of those you care about should never be able to be hurt. No one is hurting anyone here. Grant and Julie are both fine. Both have families and both got a very unique experience. Its simple not rational to think Rob did them some personal wrong.

[Phentex]

23. It's not cruel to make alliances, blindside, and lie...

what's cruel is not sharing your food or making a person sleep on the ground or leaving out the same person every time there's a reward.

I hated plenty of seasons where those in control flaunted it and were rude about it. Meanwhile, others have found a way to get ahead without being cruel. To me, lying in Survivor isn't cruel...unless you are talking about your grandmother dying!

[lazarus]

21. I have a thought

First, it turns out that Grant apparently got upset when he found out Rob was playing hiding the HII clues.

I think the difference between Grant and Rob goes beyond the game. Grant knows it's a game, because he voted for Rob.

I think, to Rob, it's about The Show. From the moment he hit the beach (even before, see below), he was no longer Rob Mariano, family man. He became Boston Rob, Survivor royalty. He knew exactly what soundbites to give to make his confessionals air (and to tell the plot of the show, an important thing most forget to do).

To Grant, the confessionals were a time to step away from the game and unburden himself, so when he saw Rob still playing in confessionals, he started to doubt that he ever knew Rob as a person at all.



As for when Rob started to play the game, apparently he and Russell had a loose alliance going in (that Rob may or may not have honoured). Also, in a pregame interview with the two of them, Rob was constantly puffing Russhole up as a great player, when he really doesn't think he is at all. He was setting Russ up to fail.

Let us not forget that Rob has a psychology degree.

[Phentex]

22. I think you're right!...

More than once Rob mentioned making good television or something like that. It's clear he knows he's on a show.

And maybe Rob's an okay guy. But I don't think he's looking for or needs any more lifelong friends. He needed alliances and that's all.

[lazarus]

24. I think he truly liked Grant

and was sincerely upset that he had to vote him out when he did. But he knew it was going to happen sooner or later.

I think he intended to keep Grant long enough to make sure the RI loser didn't come back in the game and win to F3. Once the loser was gone, Grant was, too.

[dr.strangelove]

15. Great season for Rob fans but overall not in my top 5

Rob played a great game, but he played it against bad players. He never had to beat anyone once he got Francesca out of the game. The rest of his tribe were amateurs. It would have been better to see him play on the Zap tribe, who were by far better players. They made a huge mistake is tossing an IC which wound up costing them any chance at winning, but they were still players from day 1.

[catchnrelease]

25. Glad Rob won

I was never a fan of his in the past, but he won me over this season. I think he really nailed it. There were some slow parts, and I'm not sold on RI yet, so I hope the next one is overall more interesting. The producers need to go back to getting people that have watched the show and want to be on, not recruit people off of Venice Beach or out of bars.

It boggles my mind when people are so shocked after a blindside, "They looked into my eyes and lied to me", that they have been betrayed, but they have no problem doing it to the other players. I mean Grant and Andrea both voted Matt off twice, then were surprised when they were axed too? No matter what Rob is telling you, you know someone has to go, I'd never be secure. As I said above, any one that's watched the show would know you can never really be sure you're being told the truth.

Supposedly South Pacific=Samoa. (I hope that isn't considered a spoiler!) Does anyone know why they can't go back to some places like Australia or Africa? I could see maybe Africa is too dangerous in some places. but there must be areas they could use. I know that they were going to New Zealand at one point, but the earthquake ruined that plan. Something other than another tropical jungle...how about a remote forest in Canada or Russia or Alaska?

And thank goodness there was no Fallen Comrade segment, I always dreaded that part.

[Phentex]

26. They don't plan to starve people any more or make them so weak they...

can't play. And they won't go to any cold places because then they'd have to cover up the women. They need their bikini shots. :eyes:

I think I heard once that some of the countries have made it easier on them to film which is why they repeat.

I wonder if they got flack about the boooooring remembering of players past. I hated that part of the show, too. They forced the finalists to come up with something nice to say about each person. Snoozeville.

[ecstatic]

27. It's funny how they gave Rob the win, but Russell was

never given the win. Both lied and deceived--at least Russell was honest about it! And I agree with the other person who said Rob winning doesn't mean much since his tribe was full of idiots! Oh, and I loved Philip! But what was he thinking in the final tribal council?!?

[lazarus]

28. Ressell

was more than honest about it - he was in people's faces about it. He was a bully and thug who intentionally weakened his tribe. He didn't know (and still doesn't know) that Survivor is, first and foremost, a social game. Rob played a masterful social game. He only lied and deceived when it was necessary in the game, as opposed to Ressell, who delighted in making people feel small so he could feel big.

Phillip wasn't thinking in the FTC, just like the rest of the game. I can accept being the villain to play for second place, but playing the race card was bit much. I'm not going to say he shouldn't have, because I still believe anything goes in the game, so long as no rules are broken.

But he didn't make any progress towards showing that it was a strategy he employed. He mentioned having to change his strategy when Rob appeared, but never explicated what his original strategy was, and why it would have worked, but couldn't work with Rob around.

Oh, and Rob wasn't given the win. He earned it, something Ressell didn't, and can't, do. Natalie outplayed him in Samoa, and Parvati and Sandra both outplayed him in HvV.

[truebrit71]

29. I just hope we have a bunch of Muslims on next season to talk about how Survivor..

...brought them closer to Allah...

I am personally sick and tired of these GAME SHOW CONTESTANTS preaching their mindless psycho-babble during my one guilty pleasure of the week...

Like Jeebusm, FINE, go away and pary to him quietly...you know, like your handbook says you should...otherwise, please for the love of dog STFU!!!!

*end of rant...

P.S. I was thrilled that Boston Rob won...he played be smartest tactical game of Survivor I have ever seen...:thumbsup: